cjay

I found out some information the other day about some Widow NG fixes from Fun With Wind. Turns out there are 2 main things that people fix. One is the female end of the lower spreader breaking at the T. The other is the lower spreader popping out of the T. One fix for the lower spreader popping out of the T is the C clip bungee solution discussed earlier which holds the rods in the T. The other option is to use an HQ Excel cross connector T size .240, part#17-160070-10. The Excel T has longer ends so you eliminate the male piece. You cut off the male end of the lower spreader and glue it in the female end that breaks to reinforce it there. You then have both ends of the spreaders with solid rods glued inside at the T to reinforce them. The Excel T is said to be very sturdy. I think that C clips and a bungee would still have to be used to keep the rods in, as the T ends aren't very long. The other thing I read that happens, is the spine slipping to the side in the pocket and the weight can fall off and get lost. The simple preventative solution I came up with for this is to wrap a male piece of Velcro around the weight facing out. Since the whole pocket is female or soft Velcro, this locks it in place. It weighs next to nothing. It is also very thin and not really noticeable. I removed the Premier rubber patch. Also my tail weight is actually 14g, not 16g. Fun With Wind had a going out of business sale on the Widow NG that I missed. They were going for about $80.

Have a Shanti Skybond 100# x 100' line set on the way. Will see how it goes.

I am going with 90# or 100# line, because that is what is available close to the weight I want. The Shanti Speed and Skybond are 100#. LPG is 90#. The skybond 100# is said to be the same diameter as the LPG 90#. Skybond and LPG are both coated line, where Shanti speed line is not. I guess it comes down to not knowing if I should get coated or uncoated line.

I don't know whether speed line or skybond is the one for my application. I would be interested to know which shop does the best quality work on the sleeving.

I think the e2 lines are either Dacron, or spectra. the Widow NG lines are supposedly spectra. There is a kite shop near me called the kite shoppe that custom builds sleeved line sets. They are said to do really nice work. I guess Shanti does that also. I was looking at the Prism Synapse 140 or 170 when I was at Prism kites. I don't know anything about what size or choice would be good for a high wind beater though.

Nice critique Breezin, good information as usual. Another nighthawk, over an addiction even? You prefer the Flexi foil psycho over the addiction? I am not really up on those older kites, the dot matrix kite looked interesting and has nice colors. The older trick and track colors look nice. No worries RobB, I get it, if I had the cash and skyburner still made the WM, I would like to buy a custom color one.

Interesting. I know I want 100' lines, not sure what weight of lines to get. Thinking around 100#. Not sure if that gives me a good wind range with the big kites or not though. I probably don't want to fly my kites much over 15mph, I will get a beater for that like an HQ Ion, or foil of some sort. Didn't you used to have a nighthawk, or have one already?

That is interesting. I will have to check those out. I am thinking about a line set. Like skybond. I think the Widow NG comes with 85 ft long line that is 150 pound. I have read that 100 foot line with 95 lb weight is a better option. I think that would work good with my E2 as it also came with 75-85 foot line 150 lb test. Funny thing about the weight is that Premier claims the Widow NG comes with a 16 gram weight, but mine weighs 14 g. Some people prefer a 10 g weight. I want to figure out how to keep the weight and spine in the pocket.

I think I understand how it attaches now. I guess the c clips are glued in place so they don't move then. So basically the bungee is there to hold the spreader ends together in the T. I don't know what Nitros are. I am guessing a different type of tubing that is stronger and probably some people are using them in this application?

How did this end up working for you? I can't quite picture how it attaches, or how it functions. I just got my Widow Ng, and am going to get a few spare parts, and maybe do this bungee mod.

Of course a person can compare the flight characteristics of one kite to another, they are fabric, with frames, and strings attached to them, and they can be flown. Breezin is good at articulating flight characteristics, which is interesting to read about.

Wow, you really went full tilt. What your thoughts about the widow maker pro, and Lam kites? I was interested in how you are liking them, and how you would compare the flying experience to the Widow Ng since you liked the NG.

Really like that Premier addiction you had in the smoke color. Can't find one in that color for sale anywhere now. I didn't see it when it went up for sale or I would have bought it. What happened, I thought it was one of your favorite kites?

An interesting question is whether the advertised kite size is the leading edge length or the assembled width.

I got my Prism E2 back. The spine and leading edge was broken so I took it to Prism and got the parts, and some spares. It turns out that the E2 has a P200 spine and the E3 has a stronger pultruded spine, so I got one of each. They gave me weights also. So I am ready to fly again now, just in time for spring. I am going to order another Widow NG soon also.

Nice job describing how they fly. Interesting about the Addiction being precise and not twitchy. It appears that the jewel is less expensive than the Addiction. Sounds like you enjoy flying the Addiction more than the Jewel.

I appreciate it. I am Interested to hear about how they fly compared to each other.

Don't know if I would want to fly the Widow NG at 25mph. Whether it is made from nylon or polyester is an interesting question. I don't care either way, but I like truth in advertising.

I see. That is interesting. I don't see the nighthawk and addiction available for sale much anymore. I had to look up the nighthawk.

Interesting. I hadn't figured out the light wind kite to get yet. Was thinking the HQ Shadow.

Thanks. Thought it would be a good at a glance view. Added the Black Dog UL. Don't know any more details about the materials, or if it is still available or not.

I compiled a list of some production kites, (and some that are no longer produced) to compare them and get a brief idea of the type and size of kites they are compared to each other. I listed some basic specs as I could find them, and added info and comments that I have read or heard about them. Maybe it will be useful to someone. I listed them by brand, and by size from smallest to largest. I am not making any claims about these products, their quality, or the accuracy of the information as the performance details are opinion based. Some of the spec details could be typing errors or mistakes or maybe were incorrectly listed. This list is for entertainment purposes only. Premier Premier vision – 5’3” (63”) Weight 7.5 oz. fiberglass frame. Ripstop Nylon fabric. 100' test low stretch polyester line. Wind range 5-20. hard to stall. Jewel – 5.5’ (65”) Weight 5.5 oz. 4mm solid carbon frame. Ripstop nylon fabric. 80lb spectra line. Wind range 3-18. Smaller version of the wolf, and widow. Quick and responsive. Addiction Pro – 6' (72”) – weight 6.4 oz, carbon frame. wind 4-20. not built as good as the original addiction. Too Fast. Twitchy. oversteers. Wolf NG – 6.71 (80.5") Weight 9 oz. Ripstop Nylon, Wrapped Carbon & 2400 Fiberglass. Oversteers. Magnum – 7.83’ (94") Weight 10 oz. Wrapped carbon. 30D Ripstop Polyester fabric. Wind 3-25. 150lb spectra line. slower, more pull, less oversteer, more of a precision kite. Widow NG – 8’ (96") Weight: 11 oz. (.687lbs) Wrapped carbon frame. Ripstop Polyester fabric? 150 lb. Test Spectra Line. Needs solid 5mph to fly, strong pull at 12mph. 6-9mph is the sweet spot for directional flying. Tracking is solid and crisp but response to quick succession turns is slow, removing the tail weight may help with this. Known to break the lower spreader at the T on the female end with crashes. Putting a few wraps of strapping tape on the outside of the female rod end seems to prevent this problem. Spec contradictions as to whether it is; ripstop polyester or ripstop nylon fabric? Listed as ripstop polyester fabric on Premiers site, and as ripstop nylon on kitesandfunthings site, in reviews, and on other kite retailer sites. Jon T insists that it is ripstop nylon, and Premier stands by the claim that it is ripstop polyester. Also is the frame P200 or P300 or both? HQ Bebop - 4.75' (57") 4+5mm fiberglass frame. Ripstop Polyester fabric. 44lb 66ft Dyneema line. Wind range 9-24. 4 point bridle. Limbo 2 – 5’1” (61”) 5mm fiberglass frame. Ripstop polyester fabric. 90lb 65' line. wind 7-31. Good precision. High wind rating. Salsa 3 – 6.17’ (74”) 5mm Carbon and Fiberglass Hybrid. 100% Ripstop Polyester. 100lb 80ft Dyneema line. More entry level ballet precision. Not that great for tricks, Slow to turn Jive 3 – 6.41’ (77") Pultruded Carbon hybrid Frame. Ripstop Polyester fabric, 100lb 80ft Dyneema line. Better trick kite than salsa 3. Ion – 6.75’ (81") 6mm Carbon + Hybrid frame. Ripstop Polyester fabric. 130lb 80’ Dyneema line. Wind 7-37. Good T, better trick performer than jive 3, more advanced. Good precision. Shadow – 6’9” (81") 4mm Dynamic T12+4+5mm carbon. Icarex fabric. UL 2-12 mph. Does not come with lines or straps. Weighted tail UL trick kite. Said to be track well and be fairly precise. Maestro 3 – 7.21’ , carbon 6mm / Dynamic T15, Polyester fabric. Line: 80’ x 130lb dyneema. strong Puller, weighted stunt kite. Skydog kites (hard to get parts for?) Thunderstruck – 5.79’ (69.5") Loud, pulls hard, cheap line set. Freebird – 6’2” (74”) 6mm carbon frame. Wind range 5-20. Nice buzzing sound, slower forward speed. Decent line set. Black Dog UL - 6.41' (77") Carbon fiber frame. Ripstop polyester fabric. Wind range 2-10 MPH. Jammin – 7.16’ (86” x 37”) 6mm pultruded carbon fiber frame. Ripstop nylon fabric. 3 point standard bridle. spars are sub par and tend to break at the t-piece with aggressive flying. Offshore wind, spins fast, is a fast kite. Dream on – 7.25’ (87” X 35.5”) Glorified beginner kite. Team kite, flies the best of skydog kites, good precision, well mannered, noisy, is the least tricky, better for inland wind. Low wind 5-20 mph. 6 to get going, Fast at 10. made for precision more than tricks. Crossfire 2 - 7.58’ (91" x 38") high aspect ratio, weighted kite, not good precision, more trick oriented Prism Jazz – 5.16' (62”) fiberglass carbon rods, ripstop nylon fabric. polyester lines. Prism Nexus – 5.33’ (64”) Quantum – 7’ ( 84”) Pultruded carbon, wrapped carbon. Ripstop Nylon fabric. 85' x 150 lbs Dyneema lines. Designed to be strong for beginners – heavy – not as good in light winds – slow E3 – 7.58’ (91”) Skyshark P100, P200 Wrapped carbon. Icarex Ripstop Polyester, Mylar Laminate fabric. 85' x 150 lbs Dyneema lines. Zephyr – 7.71' (92.5”) Skyshark P100, 3PT wrapped carbon. Icarex polyester and Mylar laminate fabric. Low wind 85' x 150 lbs Dyneema line. Hypnotist – 7.83’ (94”) Pultruded carbon / wrapped carbon frame. Ripstop nylon fabric. 85' x 150 lbs Dyneema line. Designed to be strong for beginners – heavy – not as good in light winds. Quantum pro sail, with quantum frame. Strong, fly’s good, turns slow.

What do you think about the Jewel? And compared to the addiction?

Are you talking about the original addiction, or the newer addiction pro? Did you do any mods? I am also interested in this kite, and learning about the mods.

It was a combination of minor things that was difficult to show in pictures. Premier said it was within specs but wanted it back. It probably would have worked fine but I wanted Premier to advise me about it. The spine weight pocket on the bottom was sewn on crooked, and it looked to me like it pulled the sail off center a little. I think one wing was shorter than the other by maybe 1/2 inch. I didn't measure the wing lengths because it was already going back, but the leading edge bungee string knots were tied at different lengths and had the same tension. One side was tied 1/2" longer than where the red mark was for the knot. When I tied the knot on the mark to match the other one, that wing was excessively tight to assemble. I think someone tied it longer to compensate for over tension due to one side being shorter, if that makes sense. As far as stains go, I don't really care about minor stains cause it is going to get used and abused. But yes mine had a small faint stain also. Premier said all of them that they inspected had stains. Kites and Fun Things said that is normal for this kite.