cjay

Didn't know that. Recommendation removed.

Most of the info to figure a lot of those things out is already in there. I just added that the guide was for framed dual line kites, I put a section about kite line pull and kite size relative to wind. I think that is a relevant factor for kite speed and pull. Figuring out what wind speed is safe to fly in or allow someone to fly in is one of the main relevant factors for pull and is an important safety consideration for smaller, lighter, or weaker people etc. There are virtually unlimited variable safety risks to any activity including kite flying. I think that adult supervision for children that fly kites is the responsibility of the guardian or parents. The guardian is responsible for knowing and factoring in the safety risks and deciding if they are acceptable and then supervising and monitoring them. If they aren't capable of researching and considering the risks and applying safe flying protocols, they probably should not fly or allow their kids to fly or do anything outside of a bubble, and maybe they shouldn't be allowed to be responsible for a child either. I think if I have to provide a safety disclaimer for this guide that I will probably just delete it, as a disclaimer isn't going to give anyone common sense that doesn't have it already. Ultimately a person has to use reasoning and information that is available here and there to choose a kite, and will have to do their own due diligence and risk assessment on the safety aspects of kite flying.

PDSUL and Mamba UL sounds like a good combo to have. I wonder about the Lumo Kites Vital S UL.

Standard vs ul on the mamba? would a ul mamba work well in the role of a persons only sul kite? How would a mamba ul compare to a pdsul in sul winds like 2-3mph?

My understanding is that the pro dancer is real sul specific, and doesn't handle variable winds or gusts above 5mph well. Maybe having the PDSUL for steady sul winds, and another ul for more variable winds where there are gusts would make sense. Tempted to try a Lam ITM Sul as he said it has a better wind range than the pro dancer and can also fly down as low as the pdsul. I was going to drive to Vancouver and try one out, but then the covid thing hit.

I tried, and couldn't get any of my kites to fly under 5mph no matter the setting adjustments. If you can, then good for you. That is why I am shopping for a Sul kite. I am to the point where maybe I will just buy a number of them since I cant try any of them first.

I understand what you are saying. I have a few kites on my list that I might want to buy, and have been trying figure out what type of flying they are specialized for or if they are generalist kites. Since I am not able to try them first. I am looking at the Mamba, Jinx, and Lam ITM. Thinking about the Mamba or ITM as an SUL. I don't know what type of kite the Mamba is.

The Prism E2 in that video is so far the favorite kite that I own. I am pretty much a beginner and I prefer doing figures, turns, and trying to make the kite fly straight precise lines across the window. That is the part I really enjoy. I would eventually like to add a few moves, like half axles, snap stalls, axles. In my limited experience, I have found when messing with settings in different wind ranges, that the kites I have seem to fly the best in a certain wind range, and with certain settings. Once I find that wind range, and those settings, I leave that kite set up like that. If I need to change settings, I should have a different kite for those conditions. I have found that changing my preferred settings on a specific kite does not make any improvement if the conditions are outside of where that kite seems to perform the best. Of course that only relates to the type of flying that I am doing, and the way I like it to fly. So once I get the settings on a kite dialed in, I don't mess with it again. For example my Widow NG seems to fly the best from 5-8 mph, over that it pulls too hard for my back when it crosses the power zone of the wind window. Changing the bridle settings, and dropping the weight, didn't make it pull less in the power zone, or fly in lighter winds, and only made the handling suck. When the wind picks up from 8-12 mph I get out the E2. It still pulls less than the NG across the power zone even in higher winds. It also doesn't seem to fly in lighter than 5 mph with bridle setting and stand off changes. The settings that it handles the best at 5 also handles the best at 12, and to me it is apparent. Quality kite lines also made a big improvement in handling and responsiveness in my opinion.

I emailed Paul about it and this is what he told me: Me: Hello Paul, I have a question about a kite. The Ocean Shores Kites Jinx. What is the difference between that and the Hydra, and Focus kites Jinx? Andy says it is built better than anything else out there due to the technology at the factory he uses. I prefer more precise kites that are forgiving to inputs. Please advise, Thanks. Paul: Hello, The osk sails are all cnc lasercut, whereas the focus jinxes were hand cut. Andy should be able to achieve higher tolerances and consistency from batch to batch and within batches. He will have an updated bridle soon (ask him about it) and the kite flies exactly the same to me a my Focus ones. The Jynx is the more precise and slightly slower kite of the two, the Hydra is its more radical little brother. Paul Me: Hi Paul, Does the OSK Jinx use the same materials as the Focus one and ITW Hydra? Is the Jinx too sensitive to line inputs for an amateur to enjoy just flying directional and carving turns? I was also considering a Badass. How does the Badass compare to the Jinx in material quality, build quality, line input sensitivity, precision, pull, and noise? Thanks. Paul: The Jinx definitely likes precise inputs and will reward precise flying style. The Badass is more forgiving that way but ultimately will never look as "crisp" in the sky as the Jinx. Yes, materials are largely the same, same icarex pc31 in all three and different, but same quality, frame materials. Build quality of all 3 is pretty much the same. Honestly, for the money at itw right now, the hydra is the best deal, I'd say. Paul So there you have it.

I was thinking this kite looks like a good option for carving fairly precise turns and directional pleasure flying. I am not really into the tricks yet though.

Is there anyone here that has firsthand experience flying the Ocean Shores Kites Jinx? I couldn't find any reviews about it, so any feedback would be useful. Looks similar to the ITW Hydra, and Focus kites Jinx. I think they are all Paul de Bakker designed kites. The reviews I found for the Focus kites Jinx is that it is the more precise bigger brother to the hydra, and that it requires precise line inputs, and that the UL version is about the same with less sail pressure. https://v2.2.kiteclique.com/focus-kites-jinx-jinx-ul-first-flight-jared-haworth/ https://v2.2.kiteclique.com/update-jinx-from-focus-kite-designs/ I am most interested in what the material and build quality is, how precise it tracks and can do figures, also how forgiving the OSK Jinx is to line inputs. It is apparently made overseas. Andy says that the factory that makes them uses technology that makes them better quality than any hand made kite out there. Computer laser cut panels, and sewing. Supposedly there aren't other factory made kites out there made to this quality. Is it really better construction quality than custom handmade kites?

Interested to hear how kite flying style, tricks, designs and kite capabilities have changed compared to the kites you use. Prism kites is still open in Seattle. Stopped in there and had them repair a kite for me. I think their kites are mostly mass produced now at factories in China or something. Doesn't look like they are in the custom high end competition kite market. Please do tell what you end up getting and how you like it.

I don't see much info out there about this kite so I thought I would post some observations. I used the 85' x 100# skybond line. Had a steady wind of about 12 mph. The kite is smooth, quiet, doesn't pull hard, and is fairly precise or predictable, and takes a beating pretty good. I was just carving turns, and this kite is good for that type of flying. I like the kite and think it is fun to fly. I do think my Widow NG, and Prism E2 are both more fun to fly than the thunderstruck, and seem more razor sharp on response and better for patterns and figures. Both me and my woman liked the thunderstruck, and thought it was a fun and smooth kite to fly. I wanted more precision, and switched to my E2 after about an hour. Curious how the HQ Ion, and Limbo 2 compare to the thunderstruck for precision.

Yes because it does that cause it is basically stalled out there for a second or a little more. I am still getting used to it.

I think SZOBELDA has it right about the handling of the E2 vs. the Widow NG. A modern trick kite person might not like the E3, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy one for carving turns. The E2 winglets with the support whiskers might have something to do with it keeping pull in turn transitions at the edge of the window. The E2 is said to have a better build quality than the E3, but I don't know if that is true or not. The E2 was made in the US factory, and the E3 production was overseas. Prism said the differences are that the E3 has a pultruded spine. They did that because beginners kept breaking the P200 spine. The pultruded spine is thinner so the T has a smaller hole. And also that: ... "we’ve redesigned the E3 wing geometry with a new profile and higher aspect ratio to add precision and tracking." A person could just put a skyshark P200 spine in and drill the T out a little bigger to fit and you have a E2 frame, but the wing would still be different. I actually went the other way and put an E3 spine and T in my relatives E2 because people kept breaking the P200. I have a spare E3 spine, T, and weight for mine also, but haven't used it yet. I have heard that there are some overseas factories with the capability of fully computer cutting and sewing kites with virtually no defects, with more precision than can by achieved by a person.

Got some solid time in on the Widow NG and E2 today. Thankful to be able to fly again, for awhile there it looked like it might not be possible. Flew the Widow NG without the weight and on the 3rd knot. The lag or hesitation between turns is still there, and is very annoying. The pull was lighter on the 3rd vs 2nd knot. I did not like the way It flew without the weight, and on the 3rd knot. I haven't compared all of the measurements to the blueprint yet, but the top spreader position looks pretty close. After the Widow NG was getting on my nerves, and the wind was getting too strong for it, I switched to the E2 and had a good session. That thing is so smooth and quiet, and pulls through turn transitions like it has a motor, zero hesitation or delay, just consistent, and with much lighter pull than the Widow NG. I need to fly some other various kites now, I am really curious to see if they have a delay at turn transitions outside of the power zone of the window.

Manual: "For faster climb in lighter winds, connect the upper bridle to the knots closer to the kite frame. For faster turning in higher winds connect the upper bridle to the knots farther from the kite frame. " So that means light wind setting nose is more toward you, and high wind setting nose would be more away from you ?

That is awesome info. Thanks ! I will have to try the 3rd knot. Mine came set on the 2nd and I have never moved it. I wonder if top of donut stop means top of connector or top of glued on stop.

That is interesting. In specific conditions mine is fun for carving turns in the sky. Wouldn't know about the tricks though. The upper connector stops that were glued on came loose and had to be re glued. I might not have gotten the stops in the correct spot, and the front spreader might be forward or back of the correct location. I mean they are pretty even with each other, just maybe forward or back of the correct position. I don't have any way to tell. Apparently there is a tow point loop adjustments also, in addition to the front bridle knots.

I have read that about them as well. It is certainly a kite that I am keeping my eye open for if one comes up for sale. I don't know if the Mamba is similar in that aspect or not. I was looking at them. I read a review about them but can't seem to find it now.

Bridle is adjustable. It has 4 knots. Setting is at 2nd knot from frame. Bridles look pretty close to each other.

My Widow NG has a trait that I don't understand. If I fly across the window and make a 180 turn at the edge to go back the other direction, it has a hesitation, which is more pronounced the lower the wind speed gets. And if the wind drops off much, or if you make any sort of wrong move at that moment, the kite will fall out of the sky. I can't really fly it at all under a solid 5mph. And at 8 or 9 mph it pulls too hard for my back when flying in the power section of the window. The kite seems to me like a 5-8 mph kite, that has a weird delay in turn changes at the edge of the window. I see people flying it and doing tricks in what looks like SUL wind range, but it acts like a brick to me. Using the skybond lines helped the kite feel quite a bit over the factory lines. I removed the tail weight on the NG but the delay in turn initiation is still there at the edge of the window. My E2 doesn't have this delay at all. I am thinking it is because of the winglets, and it holds a turn solid and smooth at the edge of the window.

It is time for me to buy a true SUL kite that can handle some gusts. My Widow NG was pissing me off today in sul-gust-sul-gust wind. I was considering the PDSUL. I am good with the old school directional flying stuff. But I get the impression that it requires a lot of work / running to keep flying under 3 mph. Also, if it can't handle the gusts or much wind range that probably wont work for me. Either way I want to try one first before I buy one. I am thinking about the Lam's new I-T-M SUL kite. You can see the videos of him flying it on youtube. He says it has a good wind range, will fly as good down as low as the other SULs out there, also that it doesn't have as much turtle tendencies as the AC. I would like to fly one first also, because I don't know enough about kites to know what type of kite it is by looking. I was thinking maybe a Blue Moon UL or SUL. Heard the Exile UL was really good. Maybe a Mamba UL. I don't really know what else I should be considering. Heard the Seven, shadow, benson were probably too tricky for my style of flying, and skill level. I don't know much about the Nirvana but I think it is in this same category.

I was able to use these lines for a few minutes today before the wind died. The wind was sul then gusty then back to sul. I don't have a kite that can fly in those conditions. I checked the lengths first. They were both the same length. My first impression was that I like the feel of my skybond slightly better. I think the skybond might have a more wire connection feel to them. But I will need more time to tell how the stretch and wind drag of the matrix feels. I can't say yet for sure whether the lines are more visible than white ones. It will be interesting to see if they contrast better when it is cloudy or grey skies, and also lying on the ground.

Not yet. I will post up about them when I get a chance to fly. I really want to go flying too. I have had a little time here and there to fly locally, but with the light wind we have had I would need a SUL for that. I was going to buy a PDSUL, but decided that I want to fly one first before I buy one.