Wayne Dowler
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Posts posted by Wayne Dowler
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Dyneema and Spectra are material names, not finished product names. Laser Pro and Shanti are both kite line makers, using Spectra and/or Dyneema in their manufacturing process. As with most raw materials, you can get differing grades of your raw materials. Kite line makers (known) use the best to start with, as it is a "niche" market. The issue is weave, tighter is better in kite flying. More direct feel between you and kite. The looser weave is for fishing, the looser weave absorbs shock of the hook set better. Why there is so much difference in price, they use less, that and the overall production percentages - probably something like 95% to 5%, fishing line to kite line, make our lines more expensive.
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Reason for the differences is that not every store or company supplies lines with every kite. You can order from a manufacturer, the "package" in many variations. Quads are an example: lines, no lines, extra frame, etc. Some stores buy a cheap set to throw in the bag after they get them. Some makers supply their "own" lines, that way they know what you are getting. Varies!
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Mr. Weedah??!!??
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I use a regular winder for mine, but would use an old Carey winder if used much. That would wind them up so fast .......! Too bad you have to look hard for them - think they are out of production.
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That long - I would suggest - yes, get at least 1 set of 50# in a length you like and will use! A lot less drag and can even lower that low wind capability for you a bit!
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What lengths? Some don't like 50# much, too easy to snag on grass and damned near impossible to undo a knot. 90# will work pretty well as shorties, but there is a difference in the lighter lines, the longer you go! So it really depends on your favorite length, on the need for lighter lines.
Even as a quad flier, I use 50# for several line sets in light winds - 30', 50', 85', and 120'. All but the 85' are my solo lines, 85' are my team's choice, along with an SUL. YMMV
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20 mph?? Ain't no way I want to be flying a std in those winds!! By 20 mph, I'm on an X/V!
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Just remember it is all a compromise!! Lose too much weight and lose "trickiness". Add too much and lose light wind capability. Everything affects something - it's your choice on what to affect!!
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Like I said - it's a guess! It's all about how my kite feels in my hands on that day! Even my mood affects my kite! But like I said - I'm also one to switch to something vented as soon as I think the wind will still keep it full and driving! I am not bound by product info, wind ranges, etc, - just how my kite feels, in my hands, on any given day!!
I guess the overlap explains why a mid is usually thought of as a "luxury", not a necessity. Swapping out frames will usually overlap the std and f/v - why it is the recommended first stage in a quadhead's purchase order. You can usually get enough overlap to make those 2 sails work by frame swaps. If you are a team flier and do demos and stuff, then having the full set makes more sense, or your budget allows. Each kite has a sweet spot in the wind range, a place where it is the best, By frame swaps, you CAN get enough overlap to fly, just not as well. Maybe that f/v is a tad underpowered? Maybe that std is a bit overpowered? It's all about compromise!!!
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I haven't flown any of those, but my Ozone is the predecessor to the Zephyr. I believe they upped the top range over the Ozone, might be from better rods available at this time from the past.
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How low is considered "your low"? Kites that are designed to work in this area are usually pretty spendy, due to materials used and the designer's ideas. Might be better to save for something really good, than run out and get anything, hoping it can do! Also keep an eye out on the used market - but - have cash in hand! Sometimes stuff hits the market and goes before you know it!
I went through this many years ago when first learning. Went through a bunch of stuff thinking they were the "perfect" kite for light wind. Finally realized it wasn't them that lacked, it was the guy holding the lines! Not knowing about matching lines to sails, sails to winds, etc. Took time, but it came. I ended up with a Prism Ozone for light stuff. Out of production, but still around used.
The Pro Dancer from SkyBurner has to be one, if not the finest light wind kite out there, but they are spendy. But if you're determined to fly ..............
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It is an individual thing on when to switch. For some, it's when the leading edge starts to bend "too much" for their liking, for others when the "feel" starts to feel wrong. My point is there are no hard and fast rules on when. I survived a stroke and look to put on a vented as fast as I can, if conditions allow. Rather work to keep the kite flying before suffering a face plant. Others love the thrill of going fast, so they hold out on any changes til they have to. I fly a lot of team - someone always becomes our guinea pig! "Yeah, you got that setup?" "Go fly it and tell us what you think!" Then they come back and as a group we decide on some common setup based off of those experiences. Works most times!
My very general and overlapping ranges: Ashes (sul) - 2-7 mph, std - 6-10, mid - 9-15, f/v - 14-18, x/v 16 -? A very rough guess based on guesswork. I don't own a wind gauge, the hair on my neck and ears work for me! I usually setup something, try it. go from there! YMMV
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Thanks Nick!!
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Low wind flying can and will, expose any flaws in your technique! Hard or erratic movements hidden by a good breeze, will show up as pulling your kite right out of the sky most times in light wind. It is a very different sort of style to learn and be good at!
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Update - got the Sky Shark rods in and been using them per Bazzer's recommendations. Everything works in the sails that they were designed for, but I'm still leaning towards trying my Diamond rods in the Ashes again. More to help me decide which "feel" I like better. But I did have one experience with the P-100s - got caught flying an Ashes when should have flown a mid - P-100s held up fine, not so sure my Diamonds would have survived!
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Not flying a full vent in 30 mph. Way too much pull, even with brakes set at as much as they can! Going X/V way before then.
Once a sail stretches - no return to what it was before!! But if that is all you have and want to fly ..........
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My Jam Session was built like a tank and could handle those brakes pretty well. But I would be leery of putting them on some things that might be too lightly framed.
But I will say - they do work!
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Had the brake on my old Jam Session - didn't use it much, as I would often just switch to a different kite.
The bigger question is how will your frame hold up in those higher winds? No matter what you put on, if the frame starts distorting .......
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Maybe Rob B. will jump in tonight with some thoughts too. This is one guy that knows his dualie stuff well!
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Throw stated wind ranges out the window! It takes work to fly down in those very light winds, skills too! Kites don't fly themselves in light wind! It takes getting out on days most will sit and look, wishing for more wind.
Equipment alone will not solve every issue. Yes it helps to have good equipment too. But the skills to use it - priceless!
Disclaimer: never have flown either of those you have mentioned, so no opinion on their ability to do what you want - sorry.
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Yes it is "techy". Yes it can get complicated. Yes you can set it up simple and fly it right out of the box and learn to grow into it! I strongly advise you get the manual for it and study how changing things CAN induce changes in feel or performance. Then any adjustments can be judged on whether that produces the desired effect or isn't to your liking!
Just make sure everything looks symmetrical on setup.
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using my desktop - no working links. They are there, but not in a different color as most are when posted.
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same here - non-working link.
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Experiment until it feels right to you. May only be a little tweak here, an adjustment there, but it will affect how the sail responds in certain conditions! But try one thing at a time so you know what changes you like! Don't throw 3 changes out there and then wonder which one had a positive or negative effect!
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Fluke's journey
in Beginners
Posted
Most. Theresa at the Kite Shoppe, prestretches all her line sets before making them up. I've made many of my own sets using a luggage scale to evenly stretch all my lines.
Eventually the coating will wear, the line inside wears, and they get plain old worn out. You can make "shorties" out of them if there is still good left.