Axel vs. Slot Machine vs. 540

[Skyclad01]

Less than a month old newbie to this, so forgive my ignorance here. But is there much of a difference between the Axel and Slot Machine?

First off, the 540 looks to me like an axel with the nose pointing down? Am I wrong there?

The Slot Machine looks like an Axel without interrupting your line of flight (other than the spin). Am I wrong on this one as well?

Ive learned how to do the Axel's - I just need to smooth it out is all. But when I look at The Slot Machine tutorials, I keep wondering.. have I been inadverntely doing that trick as well thinking it was only an axel I just did? :confused!:

[MissRandall]

Less than a month old newbie to this, so forgive my ignorance here. But is there much of a difference between the Axel and Slot Machine?

First off, the 540 looks to me like an axel with the nose pointing down? Am I wrong there?

The Slot Machine looks like an Axel without interrupting your line of flight (other than the spin). Am I wrong on this one as well?

Ive learned how to do the Axel's - I just need to smooth it out is all. But when I look at The Slot Machine tutorials, I keep wondering.. have I been inadverntely doing that trick as well thinking it was only an axel I just did?

I guess there isn't huge differences unless you want to count these (and hopefully I won't get any of this wrong)

540: is a one and half complete spin. I've seen ugly ones and beautiful ones. Entry into a 540 is essential. This trick is all about finesse and skill. I think your confusing the nose being in a down position cuz you have to be able to flare the kite... It's still a flat rotation.

Slot machine: Half Axel then do flat spin in opposite direction.

Axel: Single flat spin

May I suggest:

http://kitelife.com/forum/index.php?showforum=114

The only thing that's similar about these tricks IMO is that they are axel based tricks.... Because doing each of them is very unique. And I wish they were all as easy as doing an axel

[Skyclad01]

Thanks MissRandall, though ive been to that thread before. Your last statement makes total sense. I guess thats why they all seem very similar to me - the fact that they are axel based.

Though I will agree with you on that doing each of them is very unique.

2 questions for anyone that can answer;

1. I tend to tip wrap often when praticing my axels. Is this due to me not giving enough slack in the lines? Im pretty sure thats it, but I rather trust the word from someone more experienced.

2. How long are kite lines supposed to last? Today while flying, one of my lines snapped. And when I feel the other line, I can feel some rough spots like that which I felt on the line that snapped today.

(As far as lasting terms, im looking for as in hours. The line I am/was using is 150# x 80' - I highly doubt its Spectra, but it doesnt feel elastic like Dacron. It may be a Spectra blend, but I cant say for certian. My flying time so far has been 30 - 40 hours since the 3 weeks I first bought my kite)

[MissRandall]

Thanks MissRandall, though ive been to that thread before. Your last statement makes total sense. I guess thats why they all seem very similar to me - the fact that they are axel based.

Though I will agree with you on that doing each of them is very unique.

2 questions for anyone that can answer;

1. I tend to tip wrap often when praticing my axels. Is this due to me not giving enough slack in the lines? Im pretty sure thats it, but I rather trust the word from someone more experienced.

2. How long are kite lines supposed to last? Today while flying, one of my lines snapped. And when I feel the other line, I can feel some rough spots like that which I felt on the line that snapped today.

(As far as lasting terms, im looking for as in hours. The line I am/was using is 150# x 80' - I highly doubt its Spectra, but it doesnt feel elastic like Dacron. It may be a Spectra blend, but I cant say for certian. My flying time so far has been 30 - 40 hours since the 3 weeks I first bought my kite)

I guess what I would want to know is:

- What are you flying?

- What kind of wind are you flying in?

The only advice I can give you with getting your axels is:

- Fly to the edge of window.

- Point nose up.

- Let the kite begin to settle back so you will have to move forward/release tension in line

- As the kite settles, the nose will come forward a bit.

- At this point you will "pop" your axel and at the same time... THE OTHER HAND GOES FORWARD

- Practice the sweeping motion of one hand forward and one hand back... that always gave me enough slack.

As your axels improve you won't be doing them this way.... You will know how they should look and start doing them a little more in the window (initiated with snap stall, turn stall, etc..)

On the line... Give Theresa at the Kite Shoppe a call and get some Spectra Gold. She makes great line-sets and it will last much longer. I've been flying with some of the same line-sets for over a year... Just need to occasionally switch the left and right side so they evenly stretch.

Good luck.

[The Kite Shoppe]

Thanks for the 'plug' Cara

Now that the rain has let up a bit, I'm back to make making more sets

As for endurance and fly time on my sets, John has probably more time than I could ever guess. And still going strong!

Wish we'd seen you for breakfast Sunday! Maybe next time!

Lam will be bringing the JJF with him Friday.....I did a switcheroooooo for you.....I think you'll be happy with it!

Brian, call me when you're ready!

Theresa

[Skyclad01]

I guess what I would want to know is:

- What are you flying?

- What kind of wind are you flying in?

The only advice I can give you with getting your axels is:

- Fly to the edge of window.

- Point nose up.

- Let the kite begin to settle back so you will have to move forward/release tension in line

- As the kite settles, the nose will come forward a bit.

- At this point you will "pop" your axel and at the same time... THE OTHER HAND GOES FORWARD

- Practice the sweeping motion of one hand forward and one hand back... that always gave me enough slack.

As your axels improve you won't be doing them this way.... You will know how they should look and start doing them a little more in the window (initiated with snap stall, turn stall, etc..)

On the line... Give Theresa at the Kite Shoppe a call and get some Spectra Gold. She makes great line-sets and it will last much longer. I've been flying with some of the same line-sets for over a year... Just need to occasionally switch the left and right side so they evenly stretch.

Good luck.

I was flying a NewTech Detonator till about a week ago. Now I am usually flying the Nighthawk, unless winds are lite, then I fly the Techno.

As far as winds go, it can be anywhere from 5 to 9mph usually.. sometimes more if its gusty.

For my Axel's, I usually do them anywhere between a 90 to 45 (or less) degree angle. If the kite is flying to the left, I will fly to the edge of the wind window till its almost ready to stall and ill push with my left hand just a bit to flaten it out, then ill pop it and immediatly give slack with the right hand with the left to follow (taking a step forward if needed), and once the rotation is done, ill pull back on the lines and fly off. Kinda similar to how Dodd does it on his video.

[Skyclad01]

Brian, call me when you're ready!

Theresa

It may be a while unfortunatly. I went for broke when I bought those two kite's from you

[MissRandall]

I guess what I would want to know is:

- What are you flying?

- What kind of wind are you flying in?

The only advice I can give you with getting your axels is:

- Fly to the edge of window.

- Point nose up.

- Let the kite begin to settle back so you will have to move forward/release tension in line

- As the kite settles, the nose will come forward a bit.

- At this point you will "pop" your axel and at the same time... THE OTHER HAND GOES FORWARD

- Practice the sweeping motion of one hand forward and one hand back... that always gave me enough slack.

As your axels improve you won't be doing them this way.... You will know how they should look and start doing them a little more in the window (initiated with snap stall, turn stall, etc..)

On the line... Give Theresa at the Kite Shoppe a call and get some Spectra Gold. She makes great line-sets and it will last much longer. I've been flying with some of the same line-sets for over a year... Just need to occasionally switch the left and right side so they evenly stretch.

Good luck.

I was flying a NewTech Detonator till about a week ago. Now I am usually flying the Nighthawk, unless winds are lite, then I fly the Techno.

As far as winds go, it can be anywhere from 5 to 9mph usually.. sometimes more if its gusty.

For my Axel's, I usually do them anywhere between a 90 to 45 (or less) degree angle. If the kite is flying to the left, I will fly to the edge of the wind window till its almost ready to stall and ill push with my left hand just a bit to flaten it out, then ill pop it and immediatly give slack with the right hand with the left to follow (taking a step forward if needed), and once the rotation is done, ill pull back on the lines and fly off. Kinda similar to how Dodd does it on his video.

It doesn't matter which hand you axel with on the edge of window... You should be able to axel with both hands on either side. It will seem strange at first but with time you will understand the position of the kite and what to do.

Are you getting flat axels at least some of the time? If you are, then just keep practicing! If not, I would suggest trying to figure out how to set the kite up a little better.

With any luck John B. will get in on this and give some good advice.

[John Barresi]

To be honest, my Slot Machine is 60/40... And my 540 is non-existent.

Skyclad, have you looked at any of the trick tutorials from RandyG or AudioRob?

http://kitelife.com/forum/index.php?showforum=114

[Skyclad01]

It doesn't matter which hand you axel with on the edge of window... You should be able to axel with both hands on either side. It will seem strange at first but with time you will understand the position of the kite and what to do.

Are you getting flat axels at least some of the time? If you are, then just keep practicing! If not, I would suggest trying to figure out how to set the kite up a little better.

With any luck John B. will get in on this and give some good advice.

Yes, I do get flat axels almost half the time. Im still rough around the edges with them, so they are not always flat, and sometimes the kite is a little bouncy coming out of the axel. But I have a good general idea of how to do them. Time and pratice will smooth out those rough edges.

[Skyclad01]

To be honest, my Slot Machine is 60/40... And my 540 is non-existent.

Skyclad, have you looked at any of the trick tutorials from RandyG or AudioRob?

http://kitelife.com/forum/index.php?showforum=114

Actually I have downloaded ALL the tutorials from the master list as well as ALL tutorials from drageportal as well as the few from RandyG's website that werent on either of those lists (only about 4 of them) and have burned them onto a DVD.

[MissRandall]

It doesn't matter which hand you axel with on the edge of window... You should be able to axel with both hands on either side. It will seem strange at first but with time you will understand the position of the kite and what to do.

Are you getting flat axels at least some of the time? If you are, then just keep practicing! If not, I would suggest trying to figure out how to set the kite up a little better.

With any luck John B. will get in on this and give some good advice.

Yes, I do get flat axels almost half the time. Im still rough around the edges with them, so they are not always flat, and sometimes the kite is a little bouncy coming out of the axel. But I have a good general idea of how to do them. Time and pratice will smooth out those rough edges.

If your getting flat axels even a third of the time I would say that you are doing better than most!

You've only been flying for a month? I would say that you are doing great... I was once told by a "Steep in old time" flying guy that many flyers don't learn an axel after years of flying.

You are right. Just keep practicing and all of your axels will be smooth and flat

The slot machine is one of my favorite axel based tricks... But I think your on the right track. Learn a good axel then half axel. You should be able to blend them nicely at that point.

[Skyclad01]

If your getting flat axels even a third of the time I would say that you are doing better than most!

You've only been flying for a month? I would say that you are doing great... I was once told by a "Steep in old time" flying guy that many flyers don't learn an axel after years of flying.

You are right. Just keep practicing and all of your axels will be smooth and flat

The slot machine is one of my favorite axel based tricks... But I think your on the right track. Learn a good axel then half axel. You should be able to blend them nicely at that point.

Well, I have been very fortunate to have met a fellow kiter in my area, and he has been helping me lots! He is self taught and has told me that it had taken him 3 months just to get to the level I am at now in just under a months time.

Also whats helped with my progress is that I fly for at least 2 hours a day, and a few hours more on the weekends. But for now, I am currently grounded till Saturday since as you know my one and only lineset broke.

[MissRandall]

Are you able to salvage the line-set you broke? You don't need sleeving... sleeving is nice but you don't need it.

[Skyclad01]

Are you able to salvage the line-set you broke? You don't need sleeving... sleeving is nice but you don't need it.

Ive knotted the broken line but ive yet to test it out. I think the othe side is about to break though as I can feel some very rough spots in the line like how I did on the side that broke. So im not really expecting them to last much longer either way regardless. Ill probably give the lines a test tomorrow and see what happens.

[MissRandall]

Are you able to salvage the line-set you broke? You don't need sleeving... sleeving is nice but you don't need it.

Ive knotted the broken line but ive yet to test it out. I think the othe side is about to break though as I can feel some very rough spots in the line like how I did on the side that broke. So im not really expecting them to last much longer either way regardless. Ill probably give the lines a test tomorrow and see what happens.

Try making a nice short line-set for those really low wind days.

[Skyclad01]

Try making a nice short line-set for those really low wind days.

Thats an idea!

[John Barresi]

Or run more.

Sorry, 360s are in my blood.

[MissRandall]

Or run more.

Sorry, 360s are in my blood.

don't be sorry... we love to watch you run in circles

[Skyclad01]

Or run more.

Sorry, 360s are in my blood.

LOL, as if I dont do enough walking alone with doing manual ground recoverys.