Snap stall help

[Jon.B]

There seem to be several different ways to that snap stalls are described.  

1) Prism's videos:

     Tug upper, tug lower, push together.  Though the video shows really:. Tug upper while pushing lower, then pop lower, and push both.

2) Dodds videos 

  Tug on upper(inner), then punch and return on lower (outside) - basically exaggerated combo turn.  The emphasis seems to be on the initial tug and punch, while prism seems to emphasize the initial tug and then the lower return.

3)  sport kite magic describes the stall starting with a quick lower wing punch, and then equally quick pop with same hand, followed by push with both hands.     So, most of the action is in one hand.

 

4) At Peter Peters old site: https://web.archive.org/web/20131011235232/http://www.idemployee.id.tue.nl/p.j.f.peters/kites/basics/Duallinetricks.Stalls.html#snapstall, and also on https://www.sportkite.org/trickdatabase/snap-stall

They say (when flying to right) pull left, punch right to counteract, then bring both neutral.  (I assume punch right means punch with left hand)

5) finally fractured axle describes an exaggerated combo - simultaneously pushing on outside and pulling on inside, then return to neutral

https://fracturedaxel.co.uk/wiki9/tiki-index.php?page=Stall#Primary_Execution

 

I have been struggling to get good snap stalls.  In part I'm sure I am not being "snappy" enough.  But in part I'm not really sure which part to emphasize.  Tight combos don't seem to shed enough wind -- or is it the final return to neutral that needs to really be popped?  Or is it stepping forward and giving lots of slack that really does it?   When I try the prism method, I feel like if I snap quickly like in the video, the kite doesn't rotate at all-- seems like perhaps the push before the second pop is maybe the important bit (in which case, it is sort of an exaggerated combo followed by a snap tug on the outer to return to neutral?)

I realize this is rambling... Any advice or other good resources?

 

 

 

 

 

[mebeatee]

The ol’ adage...practise practise practise......lol.

A lot depends on the windspeed along with the kite itself, so different “pull and punch” techniques and timings may be involved. All of your references and methods will work....but all must have that back to neutral, and depending on the wind...a step or two forward, more in a goodly amount of wind...;)....as the kite is stalled to properly paste it to the sky. 

bt

[midibot]

It’s funny how one takes some things for granted after awhile, and it becomes like riding a bike - you don’t even think of the mechanics after the initial stages (when you are probably thinking too much, if you are like me).

So today when I went to fly after reading your post I decided to pay particular attention, and ‘watch’ myself do some snap stalls. Winds were a little on the strong side for some of the kites I had initially hoped to fly, so I pulled out the venerable Dodd Gross French Kiss. It likes a bit o wind. 

Thinking back, the turning point for me on the snap stall was practicing by taking it to the top of the window, and pointing the nose down, and flying down, to the snap stall. That snapper is a 180 degree change of direction, rather than the 90ish one does with some side to side stalls. An aggressive push with the right hand, to ‘take the wind out of the sail’ as someone described it, then pulling the same hand back somewhat and then pushing with both hands forward to settle the kite. Sometimes coupled with a bit of a walk forward, depending on the wind. One develops a feel on that.

So the thought of ‘shaking the wind out of the sail’ is a mental image that helped me. Way back then (late 90s) I was flying a large big sailed kite in moderate winds when I learned it, so it was all kinda slo-mo, which I think also helped. That was an Aerie Air FX, a big 8-footer which was rock solid in precision manoeuvres. Still is

 It seemed easy on the French Kiss, but not sure I’d be starting on that if I had a choice. So yes, the kite matters, along with the wind. 

As one gains confidence, after starting the recovery fairly high for a while, you can try doing ever closer to the deck. Along the way, the 90 degree snapper came easier for me. Fun and games. Maybe a tip stab down the line…and...and...and...

I agree with mebeatee -- a liberal dose of the 3 Ps is in order. And a lot of fun along the way.

(Not sure this adds much other than a slightly different perspective, but there it is.)

.

[mebeatee]

Yep....can’t go wrong with an Air FX or three......;)

bt

 

[Jon.B]

On 6/8/2022 at 3:18 PM, midibot said:

. An aggressive push with the right hand, to ‘take the wind out of the sail’ as someone described it, then pulling the same hand back somewhat and then pushing with both hands forward to settle the kite. 

 

Thanks, this is helpful -- trying to understand the relative intensities of the different motions has been the sticking point for me.  I had started trying to learn Prism's version, and just so much is going on with both hands that I could never really get the groove.