Rod weight

[badinfluence]

I am working on light wind flying and have come across something that i was hoping to get straight. I have a few rod sets now and i decided to weigh them....

Silver 3 wrap EXP rod 20 grams

Silver 3 wrap B series rod 20 grams

Silver 2 wrap B series rod 19 grams

Gold 3 wrap 1.5 series rod 17 grams

I would have to guess that when light wind flying 0-4mph you want to get things as light as possible to help you. My question is did Rev make the older gold rods lighter? I was going to use my 2 wrap rods in my B but it seems the gold 3 wrap would be better? Does anyone know the weight of a zen rod or a race rod? Is technique more importaint than all of this? JB's videos make it look all too easy..........

also, i am using 35ft 50# lines. Should i be using shorter lines?

[Baloo]

Well there is no real answer (I think) as you do need lightness, but you also need weight (for drive)

I have not weighed them but my impression is that the Zen rods I have are heavier, or at least the same weight as some Rev 1 Race rods I have. (maybe I should weigh them)

However they flex differently. At least that is my impression, not tried the Zen's in a Sedgwick or the Race ia a Zen. So not got an actual back to back comparison. The Zen Rods look REAL Sexy though.

So it appears that your Gold 3 wraps are lighter and should be better in light winds. However ther is only one way to find out.

Oh and welcome to the Forum. Might be worth dropping in on the Rev Forum too, if you have not allready done so.

Go fly them, then let us all know which you think are best.

Cheers, good luck.

[badinfluence]

Decided to weigh my older 1.5 SLE with the old gold 3 wrap rod set in it and it came in at a total of 218 grams. Looks like the 1.5 SUL kite total weighs in at 213 grams. As per Rev website, that kite is rated for 0 to 4 mph winds" no wind needed" . Im only running 5 grams heavier. So i see no need to hurry up and get a SUL. I cannot beleive that if i shave 5 grams off my kite that i will be able to magically fly 0 to light winds. So it must be mostly technique, but as you said, you need to be concerned with weight both heavy and light which only makes sense. Do you think 35 ft lines are too long for learning 0 to 4 mph outdoor flying?

Thank you for the welcome......

found all my answers on this post http://www.revkites.com/forum/topic/1315-15-sul-verses-the-15-b-series/

ive read so many of these forums now that it gets difficult to ask anything because most of the time it usually turns out it has already been asked a few years ago!!!

[Murph]

Looks like the 1.5 SUL kite total weighs in at 213 grams.

You got me thinking there...got my printed 1.5 SUL out and weigh it, coming in at 183 grams, race rods of course.

And that flies great in 0 - 2 mph, on 50ft 50lbs line. This was my second time flying too..... I'd like to make another line set up at around 35ft, like you're saying you have

Chris

[badinfluence]

very impressive video!!!!!

if that is the total weight with the race rod set in your kite then i am amazed that the race rods can lighten it up that much from what REV states on the website at total weight for the stock 1.5 SUL.....

[Murph]

Now do keep in mind that this is a printed Rev so doesn't have a lot of stitching, glue etc., not that that counts for anything but there must be something.

So just taken out all the RR and weighed them altogether (out of sail), came to 75g......supposedly weighs on rods can vary by .5g -/+ by batch

So 183 - 75 = 108 grams for the sail alone. I'd be interested to what a stock SUL sail on its own weighs?!

Hope thats some help to you or even somebody else.

Chris

[Hedgewarden]

Chris,

Site, sail, flying technique, photography, music - all superb. Thanks for sharing!

Now, of all those factors, I am most curious about the music. What are the names of the piece and artist?

I am, of course, assuming that with the appropriate track loaded into my MP3 player, I can emulate your graceful style

[Murph]

Site, sail, flying technique, photography, music - all superb. Thanks for sharing!

Ta very much Howard, nice of you to say so.

Now, of all those factors, I am most curious about the music. What are the names of the piece and artist?

Music wise....thought it was a nice tune, the band 'WhoMadeWho' from Denmark and the track is called 'Shake your boat'.

Kinda surprised Youtubes media recognition software didn't flag it and display the name as a 'Buy this now' ..seems to do all to well nowadays

I am, of course, assuming that with the appropriate track loaded into my MP3 player, I can emulate your graceful style

Of course of course....my flying (nothing special), the missus on the camera (of course very special), the kite (SUL, when nothing else will fly) and music (always makes a difference)......and location (noting like a beautiful beach/surroundings)

If you're trying it.... I would forgo the ample picnic lunch and two bottles of beer I had before attempting the 360 finale....hicupp! burp! oh pardon me

Chris

[kwmf]

I weighed my stuff some time back and this is how it breaks down ...

Indoor Rev - full sail and all 5 (race) rods

153g

1.5 B-series - full sail and complete race rod frame

170g

1.5 SLE - full sail and race rod frame

195g

Zen - stock zen and frame

249g

Rev 1.5 Spars

Race Rods - 13g

2 wrap - 16g

3 wrap - 20g

4 wrap - 23g

SLE 3 wrap - 32g

Rev 1 Spars

Zen - 19g

Race Rods - 15g

Standard ferrule

5g

Now I didn't weigh every spar and every B series against each other to determine what variance there may be, but that's what I got when I did the exercise. I also didn't bother to weigh the vented since the wind required for the vented makes weight an irrelevant question.

[badinfluence]

AWESOME POST KWMF!!!!!!

AND THANK YOU FOR THE POST!!!

By comparing your post with the others and mine, clearly the race frame is a for sure winner for getting the weight off and keeping the strength. What is interesting to learn is it seems the b series with a race frame in it verses a SUL with a race frame in it is 25 grams lighter. And the other interesting thing is the ZEN coming in at a whopping 249 grams is way heavier than all of them!!!! How can the ZEN be so heavy and be optimal for light wind flying over these others?Also, interesting info when you weighted your 2 wrap came in at 16g and mine came in at 19g!! Just goes to show rods are close in weight and size but not exactly the same. Race rod came in at 13g over a basic 3 wrap at 20g!!!What a difference!!! Looks like you could bet to shave off a good 30g just by using a race rod set.. What is also interesting is most retailers advertise a 2 wrap spars weight at 13.5g. I weighed in mine at 19g each and you weighed yours in at 16g each!! That is a far cry from 13.5g!!!Cool info!!!

[Murph]

Excellent Steven.....sterling stuff!

Although I would've thought that the SUL was much lighter than the B-series...... is this the pro or the std BTW?!

Looks though my measurement of 183g might be a little off going by that then.

I think I better get me a proper scales..... this cheap piece of s*!# I got in Aldi has seen better days.

Anyone else got a printed SUL that they want to pop on the scales?!

Tell you wot though.....I'd be interested in what 'The Flying Squads' print SUL come in at.....since they've got a ripstop leading edge instead of dacron.

As far as the Zen goes....isn't it the sail area to weight ratio is what counts, in its defense.

Chris

[windofchange]

Yes, the Zen is a much larger kite overall than the 1.5 series kites so comparison between the two is a tough call. If you take the sail area of the Zen and ratio that against the weight, and then do the same with the 1.5 series kites I think you will find that the Zen has a lesser weight per sq. area number than the 1.5.

Another thing tho remember is that it is not just weight that makes a light wind kite fly. Although weight is a huge factor, it comes down to how the sail is made as well. The B-Series kites are produced differently than the 1.5 which is different than the EXP. Because of these differences, each kite will behave and fly differently in different wind conditions.

The truth of the matter is that it still comes down to pilot skill. Give a standard B-Series kite with 3 wraps to a professional pilot such as John B. or Steve D. and they will be able to put it in the air in the lightest of winds - but give an indoor kite to a beginner in the same wind conditions and they will not even be able to give it flight at all. I remember being served a huge portion of humble pie at NABX last year when Ben handed me his Rev that he was flying in barely 1-2 mph winds. He was doing awesome with it and barely walking backwards at all. I took control and could barely keep it in the air and I was moving my feet a ton! Frustrated, I told him that I needed to spend more time on an SUL Rev and that I couldn't figure why my light wind skills were so far off. He then elaborated to me that the kite was a standard 1.5, not an SUL. I handed the handles back, hung my head low and realized once again just how much pilot skill is worth.

Every Rev rod is made by hand and rolled on Rev's machines and come from large batches of carbon, each batch (or production run) could have slightly different characteristics depending on the temperature of the material when it was woven or the consistency of the chemicals that are used to mix the resin. Because of this there will always be differences in the physical weight of the rods. There really isn't a sure fire way (that would be cost effective) to make every single rod weigh exactly the same - but the rods will all be within the acceptable tolerances and be very durable.

As Ben pointed out to me at NABX, the overall weight of the kite can be compensated with proper skills. Obviously the Indoor and Zen kites are much nicer to fly in near zero winds than a 1.5 Standard - but skill will always be the deciding factor on how these kites perform in a given environment.

I highly doubt that John B. knows (or cares) what the weight of each of his rods are in his kites or his teams kites. If one breaks, I am sure he just grabs another and sticks it in. His skills and amazing talents speak for themselves. Rod weights and the minuscule differences thereof really don't matter that much.

The opinions expressed in this post are worth exactly what you paid for them.

[badinfluence]

Thanks for all the amazing advice!! From what i gather and sum this lesson up, skill and practice are the most importaint thing rather than going out and buying a few ultralight Revs and instantly being able to fly lite or zero winds. Yes there are factors that can help you make it easier but practice and skill cannot be bought. I find it quite a challenge to light wind fly and it easily frustrates me. Maybe thats what excites me about it so much. The first easy thing to do is blame it on the kite because you may have the wrong sail, bridle, rods, line set, too heavy, etc. as an update... weighed each spar of my 2 wrap frame...15,18,18,19,19=89grams3 wrap gold frame16,16,17,17,26=92 grams1.5 kite w/bridle with no spars=126 gramsEXP kite w/bridle with no spars=129 gramsB series w/bridel and no spars=124 grams:sign_kitelife:

[kwmf]

That pretty much sums it up ...

My own personal choice was to aquire race rod for my 1.5s and the Zen (with race rods and a 2 wrap center to do an iQuad style frame) to make my life more enjoyable as I develop these skills. I also got myself an indoor Rev which I fly solely indoors which is helping to develop my no wind and street skills as well.

Was all this needed .... absolutely not. I did it because it would make my life easier and therefore more enjoyable as I develop these skills over time. I'd rather be in the air flying than running and grumpy.

[badinfluence]

kwmf, I have read some of your other forum posts and even in these replies. Have you got the hand of light wind flying 0-4mph and or street kiting yet? you seem to be in the same struggle as me. Have you learned any tricks about keeping it in the air? I am still doing the launch and crash thing no matter how much i run around like a fool. I am using 1.5 with race rod frame and 30' 50#line set.

[kwmf]

Well that depends on your definition of light ....

I can certainly fly in lower wind than I used to, I can gain height and glide away for field recovery. My Zen make it easier for me than my 1.5 B series with race rods. I fly okay indoors, but thats very controlled and my street needs plenty work.

I'm better than I used to be, but no expert