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I think the difference as I feel it is that Rev wants you to keep using their product, that’s the end game of Club 38... Honestly, I know that most fliers end up with multiple brand in their bags eventually, my end game is the experience and fortification of the end user regardless of what they’re flying. Its a natural difference though - I’m 24/7 kite from business to family, friends to romance, sport and hobby, it’s all-encompassing for me so my focus is the community at large... The folks at Rev just aren’t “day in day out” fliers, they don’t fly regularly and their depth of terminology / skill reflects that - compounded by the fact they haven’t endevoured to go out and learn what their buyers know. I think partly for that reason, their focus is now on the entry / intermediate level, and they’re very good at it. 👍🏻 But, you also won’t find many (if any) of the world’s true known “quad aces” flying a currently made Rev product - it will be some other brand, probably made by someone who spends the time to know why differences are important. All that being said - I’m with Riff, it’s all good, whatever gets you there... The more you know, the more perspectives, the more styles and tastes you can sink your teeth into, the more you’ll know who YOU are as a flier irrespective of everything else. ✊ All IMHO, only worth the wind it blows on. ✌️

I own 2 revs that I don't know how to fly very well yet. A 1.5 full vent and a 1.5 B series standard. Since May I haven't been able to make the 2 hour trip to learn from the club. Broke a ton of dual tubes learning on my own and don't want to do that on quads. Since I do own quads I'm going to put in my 2 cents. If out of line please be kind. I have a very fragile ego. Number of years ago I was doing a shakedown on a new bobber build. Think HD 48 before they made them but hot rodded to the edge. Merging onto a 4 lane this daft pigeon wobbled up off the side of the road. Ducked and the dang thing bounced off my head cracking the windshield of the car behind me. Wouldn't ya know it was the police. 30 seconds later I was pulled over. Cop asked if I knew why I'd been pulled over. No I says still slightly dazed from the impact.For flipping me the bird he says. WELL I NEVER!!

If you are truly just starting out we'd be remiss if we didn't refer you to a few truly foundational videos. The only true disconnect between Club 38 and the rest of the quad flying world is Club 38 wasn't consistent with established terminologies. The techniques are mostly good but the name for the maneuver might not be the same. Not saying anything is wrong with it. Just identifying the disconnect. I flew kites with Joe Hadzicki a few weeks ago and I have nothing but praise for the design. I finally got to thank him for his invention and showed him a few of my own "improvements" FWIW, he made a real difference in the kiting world and we are indeed grateful. I also have to agree with Paul. Flying with others makes all the difference in the world. I hit only a few events a year and they are usually 2-5 hours drive each way. FWIW, I've flown with Paul LaMasters, I've flown with Joe, and I've flown with John Barresi. I also learned something valuable in my mind from all three. Bottom line, if you can really learn from it, the source doesn't matter. Whether you pay a premium price for private lessons or glean it all from youtube is also a personal choice. The important thing is you learn and have fun in the process. Paul taught me a lot in one day about kite attitude and I respect him for it. His ideals for kiting and mine don't necessarily always line up but his technique and flying style is unique. I'd fly with him far more often if I had the opportunity. As John would say, "Fly with intent." I spent several days with John learning about the kites and the person that flies them. Again our styles are very different but his advice is solid and sound. Joe still has a special zeal to teach the newcomer that is refreshing after all these years. I watch him tirelessly work with the public at my latest event. He put a smile on a lot of faces. When it comes to sharing kite knowledge, none of these fliers are standoffish in any way. they will share their knowledge and insights with you without hesitation.. Club38 was a sharp turn in Rev's business approach. Some of Rev's changes impacted fliers (including me) and some dealers worldwide and not necessarily in a positive way, the competitors to the market have in many cases improved on Joe's design. This includes improvements that have been suggested to Rev over the years. FWIW, they are all variants of the Hadzicki wing. Some direct from the source, some improved but at this point the design is public domain now and you can find pretty much anything you want based on it.

This was a change made by Rev to go with ferrule based endcaps (slide inside the spar) as opposed to caps which enclosed and protected the spar. In the original style (caps) a spar with a small split could be glued and still used as long as it wasn't the ferruled junctions of the LE. The slightest crack in the new system becomes an instant stress point. This is one of the changes made by Revolution that had me seeking other options. The different size framing has some different characteristics but not all are advantages. It's also worthy of note that in the reflex design it pays you to sleeve the friction point between the spar and the spring itself or the spring will eventually saw the spar in two at that point.

Just ditch the reflex spings, that's what I've done. They aren't needed and seem to be causing breaks. I used to think I was hard on a kite when I was learning, but now that I'm fairly good, I'm even harder on them. Most of my flying is traveling bicycle purposely tap a Le cap, bicycle tap Le cap, bicycle tap both lower vertical caps, fly to the top pull for a catch, throw and repeat. I've never broken a stick. Granted if I'm flogging a kite that hard it has a 3 wrap in it, but I've also beat aP90 frame way beyond what it should've taken. Maybe I'm lucky or I have decent skills but I'm starting to wear out the caps on my full sail and starting to fly my mid vent most of the time. Inland winds whomp up the mid and make it fly. I think Rev is having issues with their rods lately, but my mid is classic w/ the reflex labeled rods. Are you flying an RX?

Honestly it was one of my early Mesh kites made out of tails.. it absorbed a lot of seawater and became VERY heavy. FWIW, he didn't hesitate at all. I still side slide over water every chance I get. But I've also learned a lot since that first incident.

Sort of only glossed through the Club 38 stuff but when setting up and breaking down ALWAYS park your kite inverted. In the DVDs that came with my Revs they show the kite Leading Edge up instead of down. LE down is far safer. Use the tools and resources that help you. Sent from my SM-G950F using KiteLife mobile app

French Bridle is such a pain to tie-up and takes 50 feet of bridle line, I'd rather pay someone and wait for it as well. Lately I've been placing a little loop between the bridle and the usual attachment points, so that thing wears out instead of the actual bridle loop. forty kites x 40 bucks a bridle = a couple of new SHOOKs in savings!

Picked up a set of the Matrix 75' x 90# when I recently acquired a Badass. With kite purchase, there was a nice little discount which made it a no brainer. Have used the lines maybe 1/2 dozen times on various kites and so far so good. While the orange seemed bright to my eyes on the winder, I have found that in flight there are so many other things going on that I don't really notice it unless I expressly turn my mind to it. Functionally, they are invisible, which is kinda the way I want it. Clearly visible to the eye on the ground, however (mostly grass for me). A good thing. Rather like the winder, too, which I am using along with Freilein straps. Most of my other line is older and goes way back, including some ancient BlueLine which blends in to the sky even more I think. .

nope, no REV history published from me, (John Mitchell maybe?) I'm considered a new guy in my local club, only owned one since '93. My friends there are in even deeper w/Revs, since the late 80's. Club 38 is free, their kites are not. Our club is free too, the kites and lessons come with the membership, maybe lunch if your arrival is early enough. Anyone only needs to show up to feel included and welcomed, we fly the first Sunday of each month at the Washington Monuments in DC. Everybody lives at least an hour away, there's no free parking nearby or otherwise, inconveniently located bathrooms and always street closures for special parades and national activities. But there's also a crowd to watch us! I guess by some viewpoints I am wealthy, I get to buy kites and travel to visit with friends and fly them. But I've worked my ass off to get where I am in my profession too. College education, decades of work experiences, doing whatever slime it takes to make myself indispensable at my current job. I live well below my financial means and have since meeting my 2nd wife. She runs the household money and believe me it's not easy to squeeze her! I get a daily allowance, not weekly or monthly ~ oh heavens NO! So, if I bought a thousand dollars worth of kites since '93, I've probably spent 10 grand each year so I could go travel. Does that seem excessive? Sometimes the gigs are comp'd/free, sometimes I gotta go even if I have to give something else up and pay my own darn way. When the misses travels along, she ain't sleeping on a prison floor just because it's free! No, we will do less festivals but do each of 'em up right when we can! We save for a whole year to make it work out. So this year our big vacation trip is to WSIKF, (23rd year on the kiting road circuit) it came at the expense of my bride's 70 birthday celebration (and 16 months later too!), we'd intended to go to Iceland. When this mega-rev world record thing came up she said we can go, BUT kiting is only for 3 of the ten days we are there. I screwed up Treasure Island, FL (not spending sufficient time w/her) so not allowed to go again as a constant reminder of my spousal errors. My financial luxury is quad-kiting, I have earned the right to do it exactly as I want to after 50 professional years of working and struggling to make the ends meet. My bride Barbara and I have both been so poor in the past, the backyard was considered a king's vacation retreat. We aren't ever going to be in that position again! If I couldn't travel I'd still walk to fly kites in the local park and chase the kids there. I'll drive up to about 5 or 6 hours for a good fest, thereafter I have to fly instead, which means less stuff for my pleasure upon arrival due to weight/freight restrictions and less festivals attended overall due to increased travel costs.

Ahh, but your query gave rise to my interest so thanks for that. Here's a pic of my spring. Kite was new for my wife last Christmas but cannot vouch for how old it is model-wise. It may have been old stock at my vendor...? Kite is labelled as a 'Rev 1.5 Classic' fwiw -- Reflex as can be seen. Hope this works:

My original Reflex (pictured above and here) was one of the Earlier runs run. They may have made modifications later. When I sold mine the new owner noticed one of the vinyl "sleeves" I placed on it had split and did the pictured work. Except for the "black sleeve in the pic above., this is how the earlier runs of Reflex kites came fitted. Stock configuration (Prior to the mod) is pictured here FWIW, I was an early adopter, Mine was also an early secondary market item.. It wasn't for me. The float isn't what I was looking for. My first review of this kite And documentation on the Mod by @SHBKF

Got it. But the spring has been (re)attached - or reinforced - with heat shrink, yes? And it looks like you have some on the spring itself. Or some kind of tubing. (The newish one I am examining as we speak is bare wire, held on with some kind of tape-like stuff labelled 'Reflex'.) .

I think earlier springs were fitted differently, heatshrink wouldnt look as tidy over these things.

Actually I didn't use Heat Shrink when I did mine originally.. I just heated the modified vinyl endcap enough to slip it over. it was plenty tight once cooled. Whatever it takes to do the job without adding significant weight.

Got me on one now dude, so added a piece of fibreglass tape to both verticals in the place the spring moves as suggested, as well as both ends for support. Then found some 7.5mm carbon tube and added some tape to just over an inch sections. Once fitted was able to see exactly how much of the tube is loosley supported by the new style plugs. About 7mm and even that is a loose fit. I then left these sections on the plugs as they fit beautifully. Now my verticals are heavily supported at both ends with no wobbles from the loose fitting plugs. Bungees are still able to move the vertical so its not like am stressing anything, just supporting the load against the ends.

Just uploaded a few clips from my Hawaii trip to youtube.

Looks like a great time. Memories made for years to come.

WEEELLLL lucky you .Hour in yesterday and dang CRACK Winds were running 15 having a blast but going higher. Was really in the zone and didn't want to stop flying the Hydra.Getting ready to go vented but obviously waited to long. 4th Hydra spreader I've broken and all on the same side go figure. Kites going to be down awhile for some much needed restoration. The shopping list steadily grows as the days FLY by.Get it? FLY by. Man I CRACK myself up.Get it? CRACK goes the tube. Okay I'll stop being stupid for now. Except today I'll probably do the same stoopid mistakes practicing the Comet'e that have lead to the last 3 broken tubes on 3 different kites sigh.I WILL nail that trick eventually. Comete has been the costliest trick for me to learn by far.Lam Hoac told me it took him a year to learn it so I still have hope.Little over a year now at the miserable thing but the sometimes getting it right is worth it. That's what I keep telling myself anyways LOL.

Thanks for your advice Breezin! Fixed the kite today and flew around for an hour and a half in pretty decent wind. Got a few good crashes in but it seems like everything is still holding together 😃.

in my typical "here and gone" wind conditions, there was far more "gone" than "here." when it was here, though, this thing flew wonderfully. and, it's gorgeous. the pictures don't really do it justice. thanks a million, T in WI, and to all others for their insight and input. tom

put it up in alleged 6mph, which was coming and going here in SE michigan, and it was "ok." only stopped because i was facing into the sun and didn't put on any sunscreen. my face is already baked from coaching at outdoor pools, and i didn't need any more of that action. now, though, i'm prepared and have alleged 8mph and am heading back out before it rains. i have a regular rev 1.5 (bought here) that works well in 10-12 and above, so i don't need to wreck this one by flying in conditions that aren't good for it. gee whiz, i wish i would have discovered this activity many years ago. great fun, great people, what more could you ask for? tom

bringing your own rain-gear almost always assures "not needing it" at all, there's really no bad weather, only a poorly-equipped kite flier outside with the rest of us!

I'm in. Been wanting to try one of these for years.

Success, the 3 ring, trrs headset worked. It appears to be the standard for the newer radios. To bad they don't tell you what type is required on the package or instructions or even online. Alls well Amazon refunded the unneeded items.

Hey Wayne, thanks again, your unidens must be the smaller 16m range version, they had that at Freddie's as well, I chose the larger one with aa's for longer run time and I am going to use them for other purposes besides the kite festivals. I live in an area of thick forest much of the time and I can use them at the ski slope to talk to the boy as well so more power should help I have enough aa's and only a few aaa rechargeables so that factored in as well. I'm getting a handle on the 2 ring 3 ring thing or trs and trrs as their called. Too techy no? Problem is the manufacturer doesn't tell you which one to use anywhere. On my way to pick up the 3 ring 2.5 headset in a few. The Midland's John suggested looks to be a old school 1 ring or ts connector which is a mono connector no mic capability. That's ok, btw t stand for tip r is ring and s is shank. The extra ring in trrs is for the mic. My head is starting to spin now, I'm heading out to pick up the 3 ring headset at the locker, confused much? Sorry for the novel here, I just retired a week ago because I ramble too much. Lol. Looking forward to seeing all at the fest, should be a real hoot getting 100+ quads on the air at once.😄

Hi, thanks for the welcome message (automated or not) At present I'm waiting for the wind to drop below Bft 6-7 so that I can go fly ...something.

Yes know that on the mic. I have two earbuds, one w mic the other without dont know what's gonna work yet but Both the uniden and the onn can shut off vox so that may work.

Hey Wayne and John, thanks for the replies. No headsets/w mic around here, I did find out the two I did get wont work with std 2 ring headsets. I did order a 3 ring headset that may work from amazon, will be here tomorrow. I also took John's advice and ordered the Midlands he recommended w/ the mono adapter. If plan a works then Amazon will take the Midland and adapter back. I like the onn and or the uniden as they both use aa's which I prefer and have 23m range the uniden were 50$ and the walmart onn were 30$.I really had to get the bazooka out on this one ha,ha. Somethings gotta work.

My error, correct info below: https://www.facebook.com/events/2063175117276024/permalink/2424977064429159?sfns=mo

**content deleted**

Ah, one other thought... There is also a difference in demand, in knowledge and terminology between recreational pilots and “hard core end users”... Its the latter that Rev has experienced a break in communication and understanding with, they do what they do very well, they just don’t have time, interest or whatever to learn what they need to know to service the high end users. And that’s ok. 👍🏻

Or it’s just a recurring sentiment with some customers, no real fancier way to say the same thing. I also don’t care for drama, but I will not stand quietly when the community itself is being disserviced in any way. ✌️ There are lots of dramatic things that happen behind the scenes, or more often, that most people simply never become aware of (recreational user), and it’s all mostly irrelevant - as I said, whatever gets you to a grin in the sky. 😎

Like everything else. it comes with time and practice. There is no video, no lecture or no observation session that will substitute for time on the handles practicing. You can get pointers and instruction for anywhere both good and bad. You can only learn skills by practicing them. FWIW, I spent literally days honing my inverted side slide. I put a kite in the ocean first day.. John Barresi went into the drink and retrieved it..

For my Rev stacks, I use the 4 foot train lines. That would be 8/15ths I think, 7.5 foot wing. The bottom train lines on my last kite is 40-50mm shorter than all the rest to apply a little brake to pull the stack tight. With them, shorter train lines they will pull you less. Edited for clarity... Sent from my SM-G950F using KiteLife mobile app

Hi Kev and other UK members. Late on the scene with this one but it's great seeing how far JW has come from only a short while ago. I live in Lydney, Gloucestershire on the edge of the Forest of Dean and have recently started flying in a small field close to the River Severn that seems to offer smoother winds than other locations around my town. Happy to fly anything but enjoying my Rev 1.5 and XE almost too much. Just need more time to fly like a lot of others. Pete

I suggest the Sixth Sense. Middle ish inputs, very forgiving, open source so normally would be cheaper. Big and slow.

Nirvana. A classic. It is big(ger), slower, and very capable. Arm movements more middle-ish perhaps. Wide range of models to suit your preferences in wind. Several variants over the years, but if you can get ahold of one to fly (assuming you haven’t already) it might work for you. I, too, came back to kiting in the last couple of years and that was a kite that I had heard of and decided to try. Quite precise, yet capable of teaching me some moves without too many moments of "what the heck just happened there". Not overly sensitive or jumpy. There is a place for those… but it is sometimes nice to just Slow. It. All. Down. Anyways, that is a thought. Ymmv. .

Absolutely those kites are completely capable of every trick out there ... well, the R-Sky, anyway. The Sano, too. There are people on this forum that could make them dance. I'm having a little trouble progressing with them, though, and I'm suspicious that they might just be a bit too fast in their reactions. So a bigger, slower kite that still suits the way my hands are programmed might good to have in the bag. ....or I just need to spend a few hours with John B. 🤔 But that's a lot harder, logistically!

Looking over your list: Wouldn't the R-Sky and Level One kites do everything you want? i'll preface my post by saying I mostly fly quads, but this winter picked up a Hydra (on sale @ ITW). I missed the transition from one trick at a time to the slack line stuff of today, (stroke kept me grounded). so I really don't understand the thought of "big kite with small kite inputs"? Every kite is unique in how it handles, even among the quads. Yes, the basics remain the same, but every kite has its own personality. It's why us fliers go through so many til we find what works for us. I'd suggest getting some of those out and give them a fly. See if they don't work for you - you might be pleasantly surprised!!

I've sent Revolution over $25K during the past couple of decades. Not what value of products I bought from kite shops, but direct sales from the factory. We have supported each other over many issues and developments. I own a few dozen official Revs, quads are all I fly. That said, their last "go around" w/me ended that relationship! I ordered 26 custom spars for a Zen, they were made the wrong size, instead of fixing the problem or refunding my money they sent a prototype XX and stated they were now going to provide a different diameter spar in the future as policy of business. I'm old school, I like what I like, heck I'll pay you to do it my way too, but don't jerk me around. I'll circumvent you in a heart-beat! I used to make my own kites, my expectations are quite high, my bride's money is quite green, I will find someone to do what I want. I will support those firms/individuals that make my life easier. A local kite club is vastly superior to any on-line experiences available, I recommend you incur travel expenses instead of buying and learning alone. Nothing beats trying out a kite for 5 minutes and see if you connect to it. A coach can correct and encourage, a club can share a dozen kites, each one appropriate for today's conditions. Tuning, framing and options don't matter, only how it feels. You pick the best feeling kite and use it all day, or switch off every few minutes. It's the best of everyone's efforts for you to test out. My very first lessons always start out inverted, backing up is the key to the quad-line effect, how to cart-wheel the kite when grounded. The kite is not about shooting to the top of the window, although that's fun. No the quad-lined kite is about control, landing into the hole of coke can balanced on top a fence post EMPTY. Club 38 vs Wings Over Washington Kite Club...... no contest! Our teaching method you don't even need a kite, they are provided if you like how it feels keep it all day. If not grab another and give it a spankin'. Someday, when you look down the line you'll notice you aRe nOt tHe wEaKeSt flier and you'll have to get you own equipment (and share it)

AeroStar Sano SS - What can you say? One of the great ones. Benson MiniGem Beuna Vista Laguna (sold) Blue Moon Mako - One of my favorites, but limited trick potential. Mamba - Wanna love it, but don’t. Should probably fly it more. I’d like a stiffer frame. Flexfoil Psycho HQ Breeze (sold) - Yuck … who approved this for production? Level One Amazing Black Jack (sold) Easy Light Easy Vent Level Two (sold) New Tech Dynamite (gifted) Prism Alien Elixir (sold) - Needed smoother inputs than I could offer. Felt floppy to me. R-Sky Frenezy Krystal FX Seattle Airgear Skydance 2 - least tricky kite EVER 🤣 SkyBurner Wahoo - getting it to fade is practically impossible

We're pleased to yet again announce the next prize being given away to our most appreciated supporters, the Kitelife Subscribers... For roughly 10 cents per day they play a major role in keeping KL growing in every way. B-Series MID, roughly a $350 value and no longer manufactured by Revolution as of 2017... This is one of just three factory B-Series packages left in my personal collection. This package includes a MID VENT sail, 2 and 3 wrap frames, adjustable handles, DVD and kite sleeve! NOTE: Primary color of the kite in this drawing is LIME, WHITE and BLACK on a MID-VENT SAIL... Same colors as shown in the video above. This is regular (factory) model, it is not a Pro by Bazzer, but will still provide excellent flying for whoever wins this. You can sign up here. Odds of winning for this prize is currently 1/392, and will be drawn on Sep 1st, 2019! Our thanks, and the very best to you... Let the drooling begin!

Usually a large tube has to have a lifter. The lifter can have quite a bit of pull. I don't know were you can find a tube/line laundry with that size diameter and length. You can look at aliexpress, where there are many show kites and tails for sail but not one that big I don't think. You want a big showy kite that will fly by itself, look at trilobites and octopus kites, many to choose from.

i am looking to buy my first every big kite, or should that be BIG KITE, budget and shape is an issue, where i was looking was the tube wind socks, 12 foot round and 75 foot long ( 4m by 25m in english) I was going to buy rather than make it as its way past my skill level, so questions are, is this able to be done and used as a single person kite, what sort of pull do they have and do you normally set them up with a lifter?

Hi Kevmort and other Fellow European Flyers. Newbie Kite flyer from Plymouth, Devon. Own a decent lead kite Peter Powell since March 2019, a HQ 1.8 foil for the kid, recently sold a Radsails 2.4 Quad and a Skydog Freebird. Though looking to replace the Quad foil with something else. Purchased a Pulse Quad based on the B series Classic and sold it after 3 flights. Currently awaiting a custom Rev Reflex RX due possibly end of this month. Fly in my local playing fields and occasionally Bantham Beach. Attended Westward Ho's first kite festival this year as was local.

Hello @Majestic, Welcome to KiteLife®! Although this is an automated message, it is written with heart - I love kites deeply, and I believe the KiteLife community represents this passion with a very friendly and helpful environment for everyone. Please feel free to browse around and get to know the others. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask. Need to tweak settings? Edit your profile here - View Member Edit your settings - http://kitelife.com/forum/settings/ Other than that, here are a few handy links that you might have a use for... Member Chat Member Map KL Shop And while it's never an obligation, we always love hearing about our new members if you'd like to share some of your kite stories, videos, and/or background... Tell us a little about YOUR kite life!