JoneZ

The materials are wayy different. High end kites tend to use lighter, stronger, more stretch resistant materials like Icarex instead of Nylon for sails. The Spars are better as well. Higher end kites start using hollow spars like Skyshark wrapped carbon, to Aerostuff spars. The cutting and stitching of the sail is a little better, some people using french seams, to eliminate fraying on the sail where the pieces are sewn together (you'll see what Im talking about on the cherry bomb in another 5-6 months of heavy use ). Also lower end kites tend to be mass produced (ie. factory kites), and that means less attention to detail. John B pointed out to me that if you were to take a lower end factory kite, take the frame out so it was just the sail, fold it in half, chances are that the kites won't be identical from left to right side. That attention to detail is not overlooked on high end, non-mass produced kites. Great care (in most cases) is taken to ensure you get a high quality kite in every sense. Im sure each kite manufacturer will rave about one particular thing or another, but these, from my understanding, are some of the most common differences between lower end and higher end kites. These differences will certainly affect the performance of your kite as well.

It looks like a pretty responsive kite, so Im sure the inputs have to be much more subtle than a STD. Also try measuring your lines and making sure they are equal lengths from the tow point. If the left upper leg is set farther towards the nose than the right, that will definitely cause control issues. A tailors measuring tape from the dollar store works great. I keep one in my bag. Could you post a pic of your bridle lines drawn in taught towards the spine and the lower spreaders (Im interested to see the length and the angle of the upper and outer legs)? ~Jon

I've been looking at a Zephyr for about a year now. Had mixed feelings and mixed reviews on it. So I've looked around, shopped around, got different options, but have seemed to make my way back to the Zephyr. So I think Im gonna stick with my guns for once. lol I've seen it in the field, and it flies great. I've heard it is a little on the heavier side, but I think Im willing to deal with that. The way it flies, the look, and the overall package it comes with (hard case, 2 linesets) look pretty solid to me. Think it'll make a great addition to my bag. With the price, Im gonna have to wait til after my Wedding, but I've got some good books to read for when the wind dips below 4Mph.

hehe. woops, I meant ""High Quality"" not HQ Kites. lol sorry bout the acronym messup.

Opinions are what Im after m8. Thanks for the honesty. I know its kind of a long shot at grabbing something HQ for under $150-$200. I guess Im not really leaning toward an uber HQ UL just yet, with my budget restrictions, just something that'll do the job with minimal frustration. lol these were the most popular results I pulled up today. Im open to other UL's really, I just have a budget of $150 atm. ~Jon

Couldn't have said it better there man.

Im finding myself looking at a UL. My Widow will now fly in winds as low as 3Mph, but it takes a little struttin backwards. The Desire UL looks like a good kite, but Im reading that its not really a freestyle kite (not great at slack line tricks). Comes with lines. Added bonus. Has anyone been able to tweak this thing to freestyle? (I'd honestly rather buy this one if it can be modded to be trickable, because Theresa's got em at her shop. ) The Acrobatx looks great as well, but my main concern is how good it will actually fly in 0-3Mph winds? I've watched a couple vids of it in action, and it looks a bit heavy. Doesn't come with lines (from what I've read. Can someone confirm?). Big minus there. The Silver Fox UL looks slick as well (watched John in action on it.). About $20-$30 more, and I suppose worth it, but once again Im interested in how it flies in the 0-3Mph range. Also doesn't come with lines, and Im not really into buying another set of lines right now. Any comments, recommendations? Thanks!! ~Jon

Hah! I use to live in Windsor Ontario m8. I definitely know that afternoon wind you're talking about. Just too bad I hadn't discovered sport kiting while I was there. Theres some great wind off Lake St. Clair in the aft. ~Jon True ...but for pure wind INDICATION for direction....something showing the direction-change would be great, especially for a beginner. I've noticed too, that if you go out after dinner,...later evening ....it gets fairly inconsistent .....

somewhat off topic, but my friend sent me this link. http://www.pro-measure.com/ProductDetails....ductCode=AR-816 Wind meter w/Beaufort scale and temp gauge. pretty cheap for what it offers.

One thing that I am noticing since the leech line install, is that in higher winds (15+) my lower leading edge tends to distort in the middle of the window. But, the tradeoff there is the fact that I can now fly in 2-3Mph winds. Don't ask me how, I just can. Set the nose all the way forward (with the knotted tow points on the upper L.E.), and just slightly adjust the bridles tow point forward about 1/8 1/4 ", and she flies pretty decent (great for the slack line tricks). I think this post just turned into my Widow endeavors thread. heh

Leech line is that line (Cherry bomb has one) that runs the length of the trailing edge. It is nocked around the leading edge tensioner (the wing tips), and reduces the noise, and imo (but Im not sure) improves the flight characteristics. 3 fingers as opposed to looping: Looping = sticking your hands through the handstraps and flying that way. 3 fingers = not looping ur hands through the straps, just putting ur first 3 fingers through them. -- easier to snap ur wrists. wrists have more snapability than your arms, if ya dig.

Flew her out at Cannon Beach this weekend with the inserts removed from the upper L.E. fittings. I also installed a 30# dacron leech line along the trailing edge. With those 2 simple mod's I made, the performance improvement was like flying a new kite. Its so responsive now -- locking in 90o turns with minimal oversteer (if none at all). It is a little different in regards to the intensity of your inputs. In a good way though. Now its seeming like I don't have to pop as hard to get into stalled positions. As well as locking in precision turning. Theres just overall less input required. <-- Extremely Happy. If you have a Widow, I would definitely recommend installing a leech line along with removing those inserts. ~Jon

mmmm. Just picked up some 120's. Great in every way

I installed a leech line on my Widow this weekend, and now snap stalls are so much easier. I can shake the wind from the sails much better now it seems. Thanks John again for the lessons -- I retrained myself this weekend to hold my straps differently (with 3 fingers, instead of wrapping the strap round my wrist), and thats working great for more snappy hand and wrist movements. ~Jon

Ahhh,,,, Quiet. Love it. Went to T's shop and picked up some new 120' spectra line, as well as 6 foot of 50# dacron. Went to Cannon Beach, sheathed my new line, installed the leech line. Lovin the 120' lines And man, that leech line made all the difference. Not only in the noise factor (theres absolutely no noise whatsoever), but the way it flies. It seemed to improve the tracking -- so much so, that I deactivated my tristar setup, and just flew with the 3point (I think that might have something to do with the L.E. fitting mod I found out about from Premier). I was locking in 90o turns like nothin else. Its also easier to snap stall. It seems I can shake the wind from the sails easier with that leech line installed. It didn't affect the high wind performance at all. I am extremely happy. Well, that was, until I ripped my sail right over the spine, pullin off a dead launch. lol. Only about a 1" rip, nothing a little adhesive nylon can't fix. Oh! I got my Fiance a new single line kite as well. 7' winspan multi-coloured bird. She flies great. Got a 500' 50# dacron line to go with it. She likes the stratusphere. Got a sunburn, got sand between my toes, and Im tired as sh**. All in all, an absolutely fantastic weekend. I'll upload pics to my profile soon.

Holy crap BUMP** for no reason! I just read this thread, and believe it or not, mine is an older model (it had inserts in the upper LE fittings). Those have been removed, and luckily, I had already tied another pigtail when I got the kite. All the lines are stretched, and match up to the factory specs (nice to have those dimensions, as I will most certainly be experimenting bridle design with this kite.). Interested to see how she flies. I'll let you all know. ~Jon

LoL Soon my dear,, very soon. If I could only stop getting large electricity bills, and phone bills, or if only weddings didnt cost a fortune, I might be able to pick up one of those '07 models from the kite shoppe. lol *le sigh*

Well, I havent done this yet. Kind of put a hiatus on it. I was using 80# Dacron (for the elasticity value), but it turned out to be too thick of a line. The re-enforced patch around the Jaco connectors is whats killin me. Im using a blunt canvas/jean needle, as to not puncture the T.E.. I passed the dacron through the needle, and melted it onto the end, trying to make it as flush as possible to the needle itself. I don't think I can make it any more flush. I passed through on re-enforced patch, but on the 2nd part of the 2nd patch, it just wouldnt pass through. Im thinking about grabbing some 90# spectra, maybe that'll be a little thinner, and pass between the stitching better.

To answer my own question, I am in the process now of installing a Leech line in my trailing edge -- ever so carefully.

Noted John. I sent you a PM T. Those sales up on your site? ~Jon

Right on m8. thanks for the clarification on this. ~Jon

I know,, "Just get the 1.5 or a B series" right? Well, I need to understand the differences between these different versions of Revs. So, is there a relatively short answer to this question? Difference between EXP and the 1.5? Rev I vs. II. What does SLE mean? From my surface understanding, Im thinking that the EXP is made of less $$ materials (nylon vs. icarex). But the rest Im pretty much clueless on. Can someone school this rookie? Thanks ~Jon

lol. If any luck yes, but I've got a wedding to save up for in July, thus the whole Willing To Sell my soul bit. hehe I could just buy 2 Jump sport kites from ya -- make up my 4 kites $100+ purchased from the KiteShoppe and make my free 5th a Rev. o.0 On a side note, I was looking at the masterpiece edition Revs on rev's site -- Barry Poulters 'lookers' are absolutely amazing. They look like a cross between one of my cats eyes and an Owl (my spiritual animal). In....Love.... My Fiance is sold on the pink one of course. ~Jon **edit: however I will be stopping by sometime in the near future for some spare parts. Hows the renovations going? ttys

so..... goood...... Although I just added another 10 years to my kite training -- with dual and now with quad. lol

I think its a matter of getting a Rev first, before I join. lol. I'd just be teasing myself if I joined revguild now. lol I....must...not...forget....the....light side......... It'll be a tricky balance, that much I can feel already. lol