Jeepster

Yep, sneak over to the rev forum and read John's write-up on how to wind/unwind your lines. Nothing worse than unwinding your lines, noticing lots of "apparent" wraps, allowing panic to set it and then trying to remove the twists. For a bystander, it's almost as funny as watching a dog chase it's tail. The twists weren't real ... you'll spent half your time removing "ghost" twists and then the second half of your time removing the ones you've just put in. I've followed John's method since day one and have NEVER had any of the problems others have complained about. Yes, I've added a few modifications of my own, but the basic method is still the same. http://www.revkites.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3187&hl= The second piece of advice is to enjoy! Seems simple, but if you get too wrapped up in trying to do everything perfect, you'll screw up the best part. And, the best part is the process of learning something new every time you fly. Cheers and good luck, Tom

Kent, did that happen recently? It's still listed on the Sky Burner web site. That's too bad if it's no longer being made. I missed catching the dual line virus, and thus, for me, they're only fun to watch for a few minutes. Two exceptions are the Chicago Fire team flying stacks and Dave Bush flying Thor's Hammer. Dave, like me, has a strong attachment to terra firma, so watching Thor pull him along the ground is fun to watch. He's got great control, but when the winds are high and he loads up the kite in the middle of the wind window, the dual belongs to Thor. For others who might not have seen him fly, here's a video in average winds ... Cheers, Tom

Tristan, Cool flying ... keep it up!!! I wish your mother would hide your kites though, it's not nice to make grown men green with envy!!! Cheers, Tom

Sorry, I missed your return post ... asleep at the wheel I guess. Naw, the little ones really do scare me. A full dollop of energy, temperament and duplicity packed into such a tiny frame!!! Playing with fire if you ask me!! But, have a go if you must. I'll be on the sidelines cheering ... now I have to decide which side is the safest to support. Cheers, Tom

SkyWlkr, from the Rev forum has come up short one quad. Here's his posting: .............................................................. I am absolutely sick right now... I was repacking my travel bag tonight to fit a dedicated Fighting Rok and my new Eyes Rev and noticed my Mask Spirit Quad was gone... I last had it in the bag the day before the night fly. If any one picked it up by accident please let me know,I will pay for shipping. It was in a yellow bag with a star on it. Here is a link to his posting on the Rev Forum: LINK

Howard, Sounds like you're on the right track with buying an SUL next. It won't cut the flyable wind speed in half, but will be a good step in the right direction. I've seen folks fly all manner of Rev kites way over their recommended wind range. If you're careful and don't horse them around, they'll fly well above the recommended wind speed. It's just that some of the fun goes out of flying them in higher and higher wind speeds. Venting helps calm the higher winds and soften the gusts, but even they stop being fun after the winds get too high. Low wind speeds frustrate all of us. With practice, you can lower the wind speed at which frustration starts. I watched Ben flying well in low speed and thought he was using a secret kite. So, I had him land and let me try his kite ... same kite, same winds, stood in the same spot ... yep, the results were terrible. Damn, it's just plain practice!!! All Rev kites can fly better than their pilots ... end of story!!! iQuad is using a prototype kite ... it has the size of a Rev 1 and the proportions and layout of a B-series ... probably includes a prototype frame set also. The bigger kites fly better in lower winds ... they are also slower. Please do not miss this opportunity to meet JB and some of the other folks. All of them are very approachable, friendly and willing to go out of their way to help with your Rev addiction. Well, Ben does growl a little, but so do kittens at first. Ask them about flying in low winds ... or about reversing up the wind window ... or about clock work. You'll take months off the learning curve with one simple question. Oh yes, tell John your forum name ... that will put a face with a name. Good luck, Tom

Howard, Baloo gave you the best advice ... try as many different kites at WSIKF as you can. I"m still amazed at how quickly someone will let you fly their prized kite if you simply ask. Flying the different kites will tell you more about what you need than any advice from the rest of us. Since you fly dual line kites a lot, you already know that the average wind speed in YOUR area will affect what you have in your kite bag. The Washington DC fliers don't own many vented kites. And some of the British fliers don't own many non-vented kites ... in fact, Big Bri owns a mega-vented Rev and Jonesy owns a kite that has so little material that it would make a Victoria Secrets model blush. If the winds are generally very low, the SUL will be a good addition. If you have many days were the winds are high, then your next kite might be better in the vented category. Baloo is right that a Rev 1 will fly better in the lower winds, but the advantage of staying with a 1.5 size (EXP, SLE, SUL, B-series, Pro, etc) and the 1/4 inch frames is that the frame sets are interchangeable and add to the wind/kite match up possibilities. The ultimate low wind combo is almost any lighter Rev and experience!!! I'm fairly new to flying Revs, so the low wind learning curve is quite steep. The more I fly/practice, the better all my kites get in flying in lower the winds. I knew they had it in them ... Welcome to four lines ... and be very care full of the drug kite pushers in the quad world. Cheers, Tom

That would work ... make the connection to the second kite equal to the rod height of the first kite, etc. With some tuning, that would force the kites to remain parallel. The thing is, I really love the way progressive stacks fly. I don't want to change them nor am I complaining about them ... just wanted to understand why they fly like they do. Plus, I was interested in the experience of others. Most people will tell you that a quad stack backs up with great difficulty, if at all ... Mike Kory was able to back mine around in a circle. Even I can back it up side-to-side and vertically. I'm working on circles, but remember the party trick where you drew a circle by looking into a mirror ... that's how my circles look right now. If you haven't tried a progressive stack, please make the effort ... you'll fall in love. Thanks for the input. Cheers, Tom

Choccy, In my case, I'm using a brand name 100 lb test bridle line. Since the last kite is slightly smaller in size than a REV II, it's not large enough to cause an appreciable pull. The stack lines were all made to withing 1/16" (it was raining) of each other. I wouldn't expect enough differential stretch to affect the flight of that small of a progressive. The major response difference for a progressive is the difference in height of the kites. Any handle movement that will cause a normal response on a Rev 1.5 will over power one of your mini kites. Now imagine your mini stacked with a Rev 1.5 in progressive arrangement. The same handle movement yields the same results ... the Rev 1.5 size kite will have a normal response and the mini will be overpowered (stalled). Thus, for the larger handle inputs, the stack flies off the rear kite and is not affected much by the smaller front kite. Cheers, Tom

Hey Ant, Looks like I didn't explain the picture well enough, so let me try it with sketches: The first sketch shows the red kites in a progressive stack with the lines set appropriately ... all lines even and all lines tight. This is the way my small progressive is configured. The second sketch shows what the stack looks like if you give it enough back handle movement to cause the lead (smallest) kite to move to an 80 degree angle. The second kite moves to about 52 degrees of attack angle and the third kite only moves to about 41 degrees of attack angle. Again, all lines remain the same length for this sketch. Thus, the lead kite can be stalled out completely and the last kite is still at a reasonable angle of attack. This is why I believe that a progressive stack flies more like the last (largest) kite in a stack than the other two smaller kites. This phenomenon will not show up in a linear stack because the kites are all the same verical size ... thus, they stay parallel to each for all handle inputs. Does this clear up the point I tried to make??? Cheers, Tom

I think I'll set that contest out. You know how the smaller kites are a little tricky to fly??? Well ... Shaking in my boots, Tom

We drove up to Michigan for a vacation this last week. With several hours behind the wheel, I spent the time thinking about why a progressive stack might fly like the last kite in line. Look at the picture below ... all stack lines were tight. It's one of those "hit yourself on the head" kind of obvious answers. For a specific handle angle, the smallest kite will react more than the largest kite will. Thus, the smallest kite will almost stall during large inputs, while the largest kite will simply react appropriately. Cheers, Tom

Ant, Thanks for the compliment. Tom

Good looking kite ... 45 days and counting. Cheers, Tom

Congratulations Bob!!!! Thanks for the contest John.

Psst, John ... it's August 1st ...

**MFG DETAILS REMOVED TO DISCOURAGE FURTHER CLONING IMPROVEMENTS** (sorry) Hey John, no problem ... good catch ... the mistake was mine!! You've said before it's inappropriate "to post how to make clone kites" ... now you'll have to change your admonition to it's inappropriate "to post how to and not to make clone kites" ... @Dazza ... my apologies to you. When I reread my posting, it sounded like I was, at least partially, growling at you. That was not intended. Please come back and continue to post on the forum. All of the other folks are really good people ... Cheers, Tom

Dazza, I had an opportunity to look at a Rev copy from this company recently. The quoted price was low, but the quality was even lower. The attention to detail was very poor. There was only one rod set ... felt like a 3.5-wrap rod ... in a full sail. The rods from the leading edge wings could not be exchanged with the vertical rods ... the leading edge rods were reinforced with Kevlar thread wrapped sloppily around the ends with the ferrules. The rods were longer than a Rev rod ... no options on the web page and you can't use your extra Rev rods. Here's a list of things I didn't think were acceptable: **MFG DETAILS REMOVED TO DISCOURAGE FURTHER CLONING IMPROVEMENTS** (sorry) I can only speak for the Rev clone that I saw, but I absolutely would not buy one. I'm sure there is a use for them someplace - people buy cheap tools from Harbor Freight all the time - but, for me, there is a certain pride of ownership involved with kites. The best I can say about the Rev Clone is that it looks good in the pictures. As to the other kites ... buyer beware!!! Regards, Tom

Thanks for the input. I spent three days at Grand Haven picking Lee Sedgwick's brain about stacks. One point he made repetitively was to greatly reduce the brake to reduce the pull on a stack. I've been flying my small progressive and a friend's REV progressive with two to three inches less brake than I use for a single kite. It radically reduces the pull, and yet, doesn't speed up the stack like it does a single Rev. A set of small handles is on my to-do list. The smallest kite in the stack is based on several small kites I've built to play around with as singles. Using 13 inch handles with a kite that small is like using 25 inch handles with a 1.5 Rev ... small movements are definitely the order of the day. IKE had a club fly last weekend and we had a chance to fly the Half-Pint progressive alongside a standard Rev progressive. I know it doesn't look like it, but both stacks really are equal distance from the camera. The total sail area of the Half-Pint progressive is less than a 1.5 Rev kite ... thus, it doesn't pull excessively even in high winds. I've flown it in 20 plus mph winds and that's when gusts start to pull you around a little. Cheers, Tom

I've been playing around with building and flying half size (Half-Pint) rev-like kites. The intention was to learn to build kites and then to assemble six half-pints into a linear stack. Along the way, I was distracted by the way the Rev progressive stack looks and flies. So, I used the half-pint as the first kite and then added two more kites that were progressively larger ... ending up with the last kite slightly smaller than a REV II. The first thing I learned was that building kites is a labor of love. I can't figure out how Revolution makes any money selling their kites at today's prices. Our kite bags would be much smaller if we had to make own kites. I also learned that a three kite progressive stack flies better than a linear stack. In hind sight, that kind of makes sense ... the second and third kites in progressive have a larger opportunity to grab more wind. But, I also found out that a progressive stack seems to adopt the personality of the largest kite. The half-pint has been described as a bumblebee on amphetamines ... that's a perfect description. A linear stack of half-pints slows down a little, but is still very fast ... you have to pay attention!!! My half-pint progressive stack is much calmer ... more like the personality of a REV II. That was a total surprise to me. I've flown two different REV progressive stacks and now realize that they flew more like the REV 1 or REV 1.5 and not at all like the REV II which is the smallest kite in that stack. So, my question is simple ... am I the last person in the kiting community to learn about the progressive stack flying like the largest kite in the stack? And, do dual line progressive stacks fly the same way? Also, any other info on progressives would be appreciated. Cheers, Tom

John, Loved 0:35 to 0:55 and the ending. I just about wore out that album when it came out. Made a tape copy and listened to it on my Walkman back and forth to work. Listening to that tape and weaving my motercycle through the streets of Kobe, Japan made for an interesting trip. Thanks for an interesting video. Cheers, Tom

John, Okay, don't quote me on this, but I like it also for the fact that it keeps stuff on the list until I do something about it ... that part is better. But, sometimes I think about a thread I've read and later want to add a response. What process can be used to find the thread I want ... besides a search. Do we have a path to find posts that have occurred in the last day, two days, etc.? Otherwise, one has to remember what the thread title was and in which sub-forum it was listed. Cheers, Tom