Forum organization

[John Barresi]

Hi folks, as we've got a nice core of several active forum users going here at the moment, I'd love to bend your ear and get some feedback...

What do you think of the forum areas?

==

1. Too many topic areas? Any we should remove altogether?

2. Is everyone seeing the sub-forums? (see the smaller links under the main one in the image below)

==

Any other suggestions on this particular subject?

Your help is deeply appreciated, I'm really keen on streamlining things for your enjoyment.

[Guru4tru]

Hi John,

Just glancing at things...I suppose the following topics could be combined:

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Web Design & Hosting

The Web Site

Comments/Input

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Kite Archives

Library Discussion

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Out in the World...

Where did you fly today & what were you flying<<(even though I suggested this topic, I do see it now as redundant).

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Off Topic

Open Topic

*******************

And these could be taken out of the forum and put off to the side or in their own section at the bottom:

Kite Plans

Kites for Sale

Kite Swap/Trade

Revolution Kites

Skydog Kites

New Tech Kites

Sky Sport Design

*******************

And this one could be scrapped for lack of traffic and could be posted in "off topic":

New Web Sites

==================

The above are not suggestions, just things for thought.

Keep It Up!

Duane

[--Pete]

REorganize? I'm just getting used to the way it IS !!!

(And yes, the sub-forum links are useful.)

[Jeepster]

There will be a special place in Hell for folks who are involved in IT services. They seem to have a genetic defect that will not allow them to leave things alone. If it isn't broken, don't fix it!!!!

Oh BTW, the IT folks will be right next to the automobile folks. I drive Jeeps ... year one has black dials with the tach on the left ... year two has white dials with the tach on the right ... year three has white dials with the tach on the left ... just leave the damn thing alone!!!!!

If you want to fix something ... come up with a COMMON format for all kiting websites. I currently monitor six kiting sites ... they all have a slightly different look and feel with their own idiosyncrasies.

Okay, now where did I leave my meds??? They've got to be here somewhere ...

Grumble, grumble,

Tom

[--Pete]

Sounds like my unofficial motto for the Army Corps of Engineers: "Never let well enough alone."

Still, the sites that I enjoy are all the result of continuous tweaking in the past, so I shouldn't try to avoid being part of the process.

If you are mainly a reader (I'm a "jump-in" sort of guy) you might consider RSS feeds to an aggregator, which would let you see everything that's going on without having to actually visit those pesky different sites.

[Jynx]

It seems that many readers are NOT computer experts (most being of the pre-computer era) making it somewhat frustrating for we, the computer-illiterate, to keep-up with changes. :confused!:

If changes are made in a slow and easy manner, it is much appreciated.

[John Barresi]

I'm digging the feedback...

Slow changes, check.

A little at a time, check.

Standard format for all kiting web sites, heh, I don't see it happening.

==

I'll be a little more blunt about my root question...

Is there anything that you've encountered on Kitelife that greatly irks you?

Be it navigation, content, whatever, please speak frankly.

==

It's quite possible that I'll be totally restructuring the main Kitelife site (not forum) at some point, for a number of reasons...

1. There is no internal search engine for the magazine and such, so we have to rely on Google, which doesn't always find the right stuff.

2. Our search engine rankings could be better, and using a new system would allow me to tag/title pages MUCH better for Google indexing.

^^ This is a biggie for me, as I feel like we have the largest depth of kite content on the web, but aren't getting indexed on all of it.

3. I'd like a new, slightly cleaner overall look to the site, with more flexibility in being able to post or remove noteworthy items in the sidebar as they come up, site-wide.

4. Using a new system (like Wordpress) would probably cut down our production time by 25%-35%, leaving more time for flying.

5. Integration with Facebook, direct notices of new content to the social network(s).

6. Ability to set up online collaboration, which allows editors and authors to create / add content directly through the site, pending approval from an admin.

There are other reasons, but those are some highlights.

Thoughts?

[Jeepster]

... Is there anything that you've encountered on Kitelife that greatly irks you?

Be it navigation, content, whatever, please speak frankly. ...

Those things that "irked" me have already been discussed ... and, you've been great about either fixing them or explaining why you couldn't/wouldn't change them.

I'd comment on the changing ... if new technology comes along that demands a large change, then let's do it. The large update a year or so ago was okay ... plenty of notice and readership input. And minor tweaks are also okay ... some of us don't even notice them. But, the intermediate "change it" just 'cuz you can ... leave it alone!!!!

Fix up the Kitelife site ... no problem there ... it does need some easy of navigation help.

Thanks for asking,

Tom

[--Pete]

...

2. Our search engine rankings could be better, and using a new system would allow me to tag/title pages MUCH better for Google indexing.

^^ This is a biggie for me, as I feel like we have the largest depth of kite content on the web, but aren't getting indexed on all of it.

...

All I can think of is to tune the meta-keywords list a bit. I would include your own name for one thing.

Also, if possible/sensible, get some of those words on the page itself, fairly high on the page. I suspect that words which are displayed by javascript (as opposed to actual text) get less weight in ranking.

Then try some test searches and look at the keyword lists (and HTML source) of pages that show above kitelife.com. I'm sure they looked at your list.

[Reef Runner]

John,

I think there are some areas in the forum, that could be combined. I've already commented on that, but was basically shot down.

Again, I say that many of us, myself included, have a thought, which at the moment seem brilliant, and we want to share it, but we fail to search the forum for a topic that might cover our brilliant idea. I also feel, that some people simply thrive on seeing just how many topics they can start. IMHO, that just adds to the confusion, not that the Kitelife forum is confusing, but keeping up with all the topics, that have to do with the same thing, is confusing.

Is there anyway, that when a topic is added, that a search could be performed automatically, to see if a similar topic or subject, is currently active. Heck, I don't know. That's probably a stupid idea, but just trying to think out of the box, for a minute....................sorry

[John Barresi]

Therein lies part of the problem... The main Kitelife site has roughly 12,000 static pages.

Static pages, each with their own meta tags... Not dynamically generated, no single point that I can use to update them... Manual, page by page, based on content.

Add to that, I essentially learned to do web design with Kitelife... It was a vast learning curve from day 1 to today, and 85% of those main Kitelife pages don't have any page-specific keywords or descriptions... Just a single canned set, across thousands of pages.

Yeah, yeah, I know... But I didn't back then, and by the time I figured it out, well... All the other sites I've worked on are up to snuff, but not KL.

The forum is optimized though, we have a site map module that exports to Google.

So all of this constitutes a solid reason for a total reformatting of the main site, using a database driven system like Wordpress... One hell of an undertaking, but well worth it... Both for reaching more people with kiting, and for business in general.

[John Barresi]

John,

I think there are some areas in the forum, that could be combined. I've already commented on that, but was basically shot down.

Again, I say that many of us, myself included, have a thought, which at the moment seem brilliant, and we want to share it, but we fail to search the forum for a topic that might cover our brilliant idea. I also feel, that some people simply thrive on seeing just how many topics they can start. IMHO, that just adds to the confusion, not that the Kitelife forum is confusing, but keeping up with all the topics, that have to do with the same thing, is confusing.

Is there anyway, that when a topic is added, that a search could be performed automatically, to see if a similar topic or subject, is currently active. Heck, I don't know. That's probably a stupid idea, but just trying to think out of the box, for a minute....................sorry

"Related topics"

Good idea, on the to do list, when our software and available mods allow.

[Reef Runner]

Therein lies part of the problem... The main Kitelife site has roughly 12,000 static pages.

Static pages, each with their own meta tags... Not dynamically generated, no single point that I can use to update them... Manual, page by page, based on content.

Add to that, I essentially learned to do web design with Kitelife... It was a vast learning curve from day 1 to today, and 85% of those main Kitelife pages don't have any page-specific keywords or descriptions... Just a single canned set, across thousands of pages.

Yeah, yeah, I know... But I didn't back then, and by the time I figured it out, well... All the other sites I've worked on are up to snuff, but not KL.

The forum is optimized though, we have a site map module that exports to Google.

So all of this constitutes a solid reason for a total reformatting of the main site, using a database driven system like Wordpress... One hell of an undertaking, but well worth it... Both for reaching more people with kiting, and for business in general.

Well, I'm glad you know what you're talking about, because I sure don't.............but carry on.........

[windofchange]

One of the things you can do to help with your rankings is to clean up the code a bit. Just on the main Kitelife.com/index page I noticed over 60 validation errors and that is with HTML 4.01 transitional which is usually much more tolerant of coding issues than XHTML Strict. Most of these errors is due to the wrong doctype being used or mixed tag commands. Using coding for multiple doctypes can cause unwelcome results or issues. Minor issue really but I have found that errors in the markup code will adversely effect your rankings. These errors could also cause your pages to not view properly or take longer to load. I assume that many of these errors are compounded from previous ones - this is usually the case.

Also as just a suggestion seeing as you are looking into redoing the whole site, I would move the Google analytics code from your HEAD and place it right before the closing BODY tag. This can also cause your page to take longer to load as it starts the analytics tracking first before the page loads. By moving it to the end of your page it will do the tracking last after the page has already loaded.

I would also move more items to your CSS page and clean up the HTML pages more. Moving to a table-less layout might also make it much easier to manage / edit all of your pages.

Just a couple things I noticed from quickly looking at the main page, if you need more info then please let me know and I would be more than happy to help.

I fully understand the task you have placed in front of you. Myself being in somewhat a similar situation. Lucky enough I only have about 2000 pages that i needed to move and most of those have already been done.....but there is always something new that comes along and then you get to do it all over again....

As always, I hope this helps.

[John Barresi]

Hindsight is 12,000/12,000 ain't it?

Ya, I'm well aware of the improvements that need to be made... Going back and amending every page though, just isn't practical.

As mentioned before, we're looking to use a foundation like Wordpress which is made with all of those things in mind, and enhanced by a variety of plugins.

[FlyinKen]

One of the things you can do to help with your rankings is to clean up the code a bit. Just on the main Kitelife.com/index page I noticed over 60 validation errors and that is with HTML 4.01 transitional which is usually much more tolerant of coding issues than XHTML Strict. Most of these errors is due to the wrong doctype being used or mixed tag commands. Using coding for multiple doctypes can cause unwelcome results or issues. Minor issue really but I have found that errors in the markup code will adversely effect your rankings. These errors could also cause your pages to not view properly or take longer to load. I assume that many of these errors are compounded from previous ones - this is usually the case.

Also as just a suggestion seeing as you are looking into redoing the whole site, I would move the Google analytics code from your HEAD and place it right before the closing BODY tag. This can also cause your page to take longer to load as it starts the analytics tracking first before the page loads. By moving it to the end of your page it will do the tracking last after the page has already loaded.

I would also move more items to your CSS page and clean up the HTML pages more. Moving to a table-less layout might also make it much easier to manage / edit all of your pages.

Just a couple things I noticed from quickly looking at the main page, if you need more info then please let me know and I would be more than happy to help.

I fully understand the task you have placed in front of you. Myself being in somewhat a similar situation. Lucky enough I only have about 2000 pages that i needed to move and most of those have already been done.....but there is always something new that comes along and then you get to do it all over again....

As always, I hope this helps.

Huh? :confused!: :confused!:

I liked the way it was, but whatever makes it easier for you JB. Though sometimes when going to the forum I wished it did not open up a new/ second page.

Ken

[John Barresi]

Duly noted.

Thanks Ken, and thank you for the donation.