Exult

Would the extra weight create a very pitch/roll up happy kite or is a (steel) centre-T far enough from the trailing edge to really have much of an effect? On the other hand if there would be an unexpected roll up I don't think that it would be the most urgent of problems. If you are into heavy re-engineering could one change the aluminum to a wrapped carbon tube to get something strong and light. Perhaps it would require reinforcement at the ends, so that it didn't crack lengthwise. But I guess the mod would take much time from flying. Park the car just off-road, behind a bush or in the shade with a camouflage net over it... (no - this is not a serious recommendation) I find it contributing to a relaxing atmosphere when people around doesn't need to only share the progress part of their stories, but also include the setbacks as well. And also a bonus for your positive thinking! By breaking the kite during ground recoveries do you mean while learning the cart wheel or "just anything that could get that kite off the ground"? For the cart wheel I'd say that you don't need much force. I've been working with this myself recently, when cart wheeling my Fazers (rather high aspect ratio and large kites).The way that I've found is to let the top wing back much, then make a long smooth soft pull on that line. Then the following input on the other wing can be very small. It almost feels like cheating through the cart wheel. It also looks like cheating IMO, but it works. Possibly you first need to pull the other line closest to the ground in advance to align the kite on the ground, but I'd need to be out on a field to remember/test/verify this set up part. Also be careful with the stand offs. Normally you feel/see if a line is around the wing during start, but be careful when this get more difficult to spot: long lines, heavy kite or windy conditions, snow or high grass.

I'd also recommend to be a bit careful with your snap stall practice. When I learned the snap stall I broke several LS in mid air. The fitting between the spine and the LSs was plastic, but very robust. You inserted the pultruded 6mm carbon tube into it (about an inch). The tube snapped just where the fitting ended. The tubes lacked an inner end plug by design. When I added them (about 4cm of 4mm carbon rods) the LSs stopped snapping. They only snapped when I snap stalled (unnecessarily) hard. Therefore perhaps the centre-T of your Quantum would last longer if you reduced the input of the snap stall through the lines, but moved faster towards the kite.

Sorry, should have been clearer. My post above was about the previous statement that a tail on a kite should increase the pull on the lines. It did not cover the case of an adjusted bridle.

More pull from a slow kite? - sorry and apologize, but that sounds fishy to me and I simply cannot agree. Typically the forces form a particular case, with everything else constant is well modeled by being proportional to the density of the fluid (e.g. air, water, Hg...) and the velocity squared. This gives us the first hint. I try my best to make an analogy to a kite flying through the centre of the wind window. The path/direction relative to the kite/wing/foil is fixed and set by the bridle. The lift from the kite can be felt through the line. Now imagine a motorized aeroplane with a the pilot constantly aiming at the horizon. If the pilot now reduces the speed by reducing the power of the motor (or by letting the plane suddenly tow a long banner), would we now expect the plane to rise due to increased lift from the wings? No, of course not it will sink when the plane moves slower! Another case. Imagine a sailing yacht with no sails up, but the boat yet got some (residual) speed. Now turn the boat by angling the rudder by a few degrees. Now will the boat turn quickest if it is moving fast or slowly through the water? Of course we will have more force from the rudder when it is moving fast through the water and the boat will turn quickest when it is moving rapidly. Imagine what would happen otherwise if the speed of the boat approached zero. Is it common for owners of small power kites to put tails on them to reduce speed and thereby increase pull during low wind days? No of course not! Here is my (un-published not proof read) log from a day when I tried to reduce pull of my Fazel XL during a windy day:

I'd say that the mountains doesn't seem to be completely surrounding the city. Even if they were I'd also say that one can't rule out that a local climate can form. After all, the the "smallest diameter" of the town seem to be about 25km. Say that the sun rises in the morning (common) and one side gets warm, the air gets warm and rises there and gets replaced with air from the sides - a wind blows that could be experienced at ground level? Here I fly the 4D in Monte Carlo during end of October last year. I didn't want to return here (there are so much to explore in other places nearby), but the rest of the family hadn't seen it. The wind direction (of the low wind) that day was so that it was blocked from the nearby mountains. Yet the air was not completely at rest and I had a quite OK session in the end and this is what I want to show - even though it didn't look good from the start I had a good time in the end! Or as expressed in my (non-published) flight log: I did also have a peek in Wikipedia about Climate in Santiago ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santiago#Climate ). The last line reads: "Prevailing winds are from the southwest, with an average of 15 km/h (9 mph), especially during the summer; the winter is less windy". At least for summers the mean wind speed according to this is ... a gentle breeze! Perhaps making sure you got one kite for lighter winds with you and focusing on finding fields is the way to go.

Hmm... Admittingly my view on this is a bit tainted from the time in which I learnt duals (end of nineties) and that is really the only case that I've seen IRL. So this is the perspective or the glasses through which I see the learning process. This makes it difficult for me to see how a beginner would start out in a way that is not "a waste of time if you're moving on to modern kites".

I understand your frustration even if it's old. But seek comfort in the thought that in a way you have been that flick flacking guy, whether you have done your part of sharing IRL or in forums. First the flick flacks that you got "for free" and now the Prophesy, I see that you further wish to torment me . I once was about to buy a new one at 50% discount, but it kind of disappeared in thin air only seconds before my purchase.

An idea which I didn't know of at the time of learning the cart wheel was not to wait for a kite field visit to practice it. Bring gloves to the near but poor and small kiting field. Assemble the kite and connect the lines as usual, but only roll them up to a bit less than 10m. Then grab the lines with your gloves about six metres from the kite and start practicing. Bonuses of this approach are: the walk of contemplation gets short and you see what is happening, which makes the risk of breaking a stand-off less.

Two more ways of arguing for kite procurements: Refer to the kite cost per hour. A lot of practice is needed, so this is not really difficult to live up to. Wait for a day with enough wind for the tube tail. Have her to come and join you for a while and do a few loops. Why not prepare something picknic-like to make her see positive on the activity (or would she see throw this?). Idea: since flying with the tail looks stunning, it should therefore follow that your investment really wasn't that bad.

In between entry: Nobody told me there'd be days like this - Strange days indeed Something that is not supposed to happen here happened. A collegue at work asked me if I had heard the news that there had been a shooting somewhere in the area where I live. Now that area is quite large, ~500km2 (of land area), so I didn't feel directly concerned (but the thought though...). When checking the news up, there were no casualties and the victim had "just" been shot in the leg and the two suspects had been arrested. The place of the shooting however, was somewhere like 100m to 300m from the nearest kite field (GB)! Things like this shouldn't happen here. The Saturday after this I dropped children (including one of mine) after driving to their tennis hour and had then planned to go kiting immediately after this. It was only that I (well the car then) got hit by a rapidly backing large car. I tried to back away, but didn't dare to back quickly enough since there was so much people out at this time. I don't give much for the (absence of) the other drivers risk analysis nor how little focused on driving that person must have been. The damage done to my car wasn't so large, so that I couldn't get to the field, but the resulting paperwork and visit(s) at the repair-shop is not something I look forward to. (If someone spotted from which song the sub header was I'd like to say I like the tune, but regarding the possibly smoke/drug accepting part I say flying with a kite is much preferable) ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ It is (gradually) coming back Sat Jan 28 16:46:37 CET 2017 GB forcasted 2-3m/s Kymera on 20m 38 kg lines Didn't feel very home except for figure flying and landings (sort of 2-point and spin landings), starts (belly, fade), FA still felt distant. After about 1.5h the wind died out for a while, but then returned after 15 minutes or something and so did the FAs. Then they just worked without much thinking (like don't make a so large deal of of it). There was one conscious corrective action that payed off however - move down streams during the catch phase. Now many quite sloppily initiated close to the ground casual FAs were possible. OK, they didn't last very long, but I was happy(ier) nonetheless. When doing 2-point like landings with the Kymera they can, if care is not taken, end up in a turtle. I believe this happen more often to me if the wind is on the upper half of the suitable range of this kite. Learning how to deal with this however, gives you control over this and also provides an extra way of entering a turtle in other places in the wind window (than close to the ground by mistake when landing). It is the second arm's input and release that sets off the turtle. When the nose is coming down. Do a quick pull turn, move forwards slightly and then make the input to stop the rotation with the other arm like you would be hitting with a very light(/narrow) hammer and then in the same light hammer fall immediately extend (or rather directly bounce) the second arm just like the light hammer fall would unexpectedly bounce back a long way. Once again it is this second hit&release that triggers the turtle (or how much it tilts backwards if the turtle isn't complete). There were some slightly more people on the beach than normal today, but only one seemed to fully express kite joy and showed vast fascination. A little boy, possibly with Downs syndrome, first went after the kite, but eventually learned that that wasn't a thing to do. He then showed that he wanted to take control of the lines by (rather mildly) grabbing for the handles. I felt that I had to say no to this as well. That little child and his mother (I assume) stayed for an hour just watching while staying behind me to the side about 10m away. I wish that a had brought my small one line sled kite (that I actually have in my bag now and then but not today unfortunately) for them use. ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ Some Hydra tossing around - will order and clarity emerge? Sun Jan 29 19:21:15 CET 2017 GB forecasted 3-5m/s Hydra on 20m 38kg lines Today the forecast and the wind I felt actually matched (I don't own any wind meter). There was enough wind to power the kite well and even have the mylar trailing edges to do some humming for me. Typical tricks were axel direction changes, two/three axel short cascades that sometimes rixeled (they will for certain rixel if I add more half axels). Fade launches, frequent and unstable turtles. FAs with quite short fade duration. Is it in the tossing around, the constant transition that you find the home of this kite? This might set me off in a direction where figure flying and flying with intent will be a smaller part of the total flying time. I'd say that I'm decent with figure flying and square turns and going where you are intending. This kite haven't got any problems in flying straight and making those 90 deg corners, but because it is a kite that I use when it is a bit windier the figure flying gets more challenging (especially with not very long lines). At least with this kite I'm going to devote some time to various tossing around just to get the feel without aiming for a particular trick - vary the input and watch the output. From Trickery Flickery 35s into the video (1/3): "Once you understand what to expect you then start to be able to control these (tricks I suppose) and then they becomes moves.". So learn to what to expect and vary it. I previously had a similar idea with the Alien when passing by/performing tricking involving a brief flared position during a part of a session when I felt much in contact with the kite. I kind of got an extra input in doing this quick variations during yesterdays session when trying side slide to FA transitions. So part of the time I'll try to have it constantly in transition (and recovery). The (percentage of) slack line training time should increase if normal flying is largely omitted. I also believe that it will look quite ugly, at least initially. It kinds of reminds me of a Frenchman that worked in the same place as I did during a summer job a long time ago. On the topic of how he learned Swedish his way was not to focus on learning vocabulary and proper grammar, but the important part was to start talking as the first thing. Preserve the spirit of this daring approach and apply it on kiting and trick combos! So an attempt of a compilation of the above: Trick practicing "en masse", instead of doing single well prepared/set up attempts with much after thought - train the muscle memory and let the insight come afterwards (if lucky) and accept if this lead you into new paths. No I don't think that this new approach will be the single only action that will make a day and night change (and I even might give it up soon if it would not be rewarding with time). What I do believe is that it gives an different angle in learning and could provide another bit off the puzzle. If someone say something is fantastic and the only way of doing something, my alarm bell is often triggered. Another way of changing input that I used before is to learn on one kite and transfer the trick to other kites later (which is, I suspect, a hardly unique way). As I said before turtles on the Hydra tend to be short for me (I certainly doesn't get stuck in a turtle) and when doing lazies I needed to do them with a very light hand for them not to "unturtle". I should look into if I could set more speed to the lazy by doing the tug that starts the lazy rotation when the kite is on it's way into the turtle. The idea is to be able to do this tug harder when entering the turtle rather than when the kite is "statically" in the turtle (much like I do the 540). Perhaps this is the preferred or at least the standard way of doing e.g. a snap turtle? I suddenly got a question in the dusk: "Excuse me, can you talk and fly at the same time?". A genuinely kite positive person wanted to know more about kites and actually wanted to know where to buy kites like this. I recommended the closest thing to a local kite shop "Fler bollar i luften" (he actually had heard of the shop!) and suggested that he perhaps could start with a Nexus. However I never understood if the kite would be for him or the five(?) year old daughter of his. It is a pity that people in general seem to be shy about asking about kiting - I appreciate the chat and certainly do not mind sharing the info. And no kite stakes today! (regarding a short sub discussion in: http://kitelife.com/forum/topic/7723-advice-for-a-beginner-to-kiting-and-2-line-kites/?do=findComment&comment=62657 )

AArrgg!!! How could you?! Subversive statements like this threatens the world order! And B.t.w. I'll fight that statement for three generations for three generations (at minimum). (removing the foam from my mouth between each word). No seriously, what is wrong with a snap stall? Flying (normally) with style until you suddenly bang (snap stall) stop - a move that you can do with higher or lower degree of control. Then you FA so the (modern?) back spins can start. I see a value in a well performed snap stall here (even though all my back spin attempts exits the fade or end up in a barrel rolls). OK, you can get to a fade also without a snap stall, but considering the tricks "snap stall"/"2-point landing"/"2-point landings accidentally going into a turtle" (and perhaps a snap turtle) they are all much alike, the major difference being in how far the kite flips backwards when you do the snap stall like movements. You need to work on keeping them separate and in this process try them all. I see no reason for a beginner to omit the snap stalls from the repertoire.

The hours I've spent watching kite videos are not few. Where has this video been all my kiting life? How could I have missed these inspirational and educational videos! Yet an angle of learning and re-learning that is just being served here! I think that I'm going to make some notes that I hopefully can bring out to the field. Also the word they use for sleeping beauty "the back spin take off" is better I think in the sense that it actually describes what happens (or would the barrel roll take off be even better to describe the action?). In about half a minute into the video Andy Preston talks about learning what to expect to then be able to control it. I think that I'll try something inspired by that as a project - to a higher degree vary input and observe without deciding beforehand what to learn.

Hmm... it sounds like I have to re-watch them. Something like using the centre of the wind window to lift the kite when you are in the middle part of the eight figure? I'm all ears and look forward to hear about your process, but let the things take the time it takes and progress in your pace. Looks just like it. That never really goes away, just becomes less frequent. Besides, we can all use the exercise! I agree, there is nothing wrong with figure eight flying. Once you have gotten them reliable you can aim for making them "perfect" so the flight path is like connected circles. One can also make a standing eight pattern, think about the start and exit of the figure eight flying, strive for constant velocity and if, you feel like it, also try to make them as small as possible. Control never goes out of fashion! About breaking parts during ground recoveries - well if you don't use force they won't (exception thorns ripping your sail). Pre-start, lightly pull the lines and feel and look! I'd say (and thought for a long time) that there are no reason to break any parts during start. However, I have broken stand offs on my Fazers during the last half a year. The reason? - I didn't see that a line was around the sail and was impatient to take off after people moved into the area and took aaaaages to leave. I used 35m lines on both occasions so it was not so easy to see that the line was around the wing. These kites are also a bit heavy so you use more force in the start than otherwise. So what should have been done to prevent this? - Feel the kite through the lines! Does it feel normal (though this check is more difficult if it happens to be a soft snow layer)? Can you see the trailing edge moving when you do the test pulling? I'm easily amused! Also for long pause-less sessions doing a higher degree of ground work, starts and landings it is more relaxing for your neck than looking high up in the air. OK, I did say (in an old blog) that I thought that using cart wheels as a mean of recovery was "as thrilling as cold porridge", but I've reconsidered partially when I realized that there was room for improvement. Also cart wheels can be made with as little input or be as smooth as possible. To achieve this for high aspect ratio and large kites, demand the right inputs and my attention. Hrm... hrm... hrm... you are not making things easier for me - I still can't do that trick...

Now I have read what the "fly away" is about (though I've forgotten/never known its name). It is when you during low wind gain ground by flying downwards, slacking the lines somewhat and letting the nose out a bit from you and let the kite glide downwards from you. Not a very strange and exotic move but quite useful during low wind days. This brings me to the next suggestion: even with the Quantum, don't stay home during the next low wind day. It is an excellent day to practice stalls, belly landings(/launches) and get acquainted with the ground in a non-destructive way. Whatever you try during such a day, it is not so likely that this will consume spare parts. A truth with few exceptions: No matter the weather - you can always learn something. Some tricks works best during certain conditions or needs focus on different aspects in different winds. Now back to the turtles: If you start out by "turteling" at the top of the wind window - how do you as a beginner exit the turtle? I'd expect either two ways: the kite will "unturtle" by itself if you don't move forward or the kite will just continue on its back to the ground (well set up for the following start). Relax! - Both ways are OK! Another suggestion (which I discovered quite late because I most of the time have flown on non-rocky and non-icy fields) is that you have vinyl (PVC) endcaps to protect the wing-tips/nocks. The ones I need to get more of (because I ran out of them) are the 10mm ones for "normal" kites and the 14mm ones for my Fazers. They frequently fall off - order many (and perhaps longer ones?)! For images see: http://kitelife.com/forum/topic/7502-itw-hydra-leading-edge-tensioning/?do=findComment&comment=61866

Sorry, my manners ought to improve...: Hello and welcome! OK, admittingly a little superfluous information there... I said that the need was rare. However it is true that I've never owned or used a kite stake of any kind. I don't see them valuable enough to occupy space in my back pockets, where I usually have the phone and possibly the winder. These pockets are good - stuff there don't interfere with arms/hands/lines while flying. Also try to launch and fly only 50cm up (then a metre...) in the air and stop - you are now practicing stalls! A thought, although a pull turn initially feels more natural than a push turn, a push turn doesn't immediately speed the kite up (and that could be an advantage). On the other hand I've not hear anyone starting out with push turns. The easiest way to start, but also the least typical later when you learnt more is to fly to the top of the window, pull the lines so that the handles almost touch the ground and then immediately stand up and "reach for the sky" with your arms straight up. Later you'll see that there are other ways to initiate a turtle that is way quicker and demands less input. Hmm... I can't say that I fully understand* them. You can do two really quick inputs (one with each arm) and that works. You can also do a slower type and that also works. You can time the input of left and right (or vice versa) to make the sail crack and kind of whip the air out of the sail. *On the other hand - I don't understand a turn either. It will come - enjoy learning other stuff in the mean time (and b.t.w. even those earlier moves/tricks can always be improved and might need rehearsal). I'd say that you have specialized at least... but there is always room for an improvement and becoming a generalist! For the second kite, choose one that works well in a slightly other wind range. I've never tried a Quantum, but what I've heard it is a robust kite, so my guess would be that you should go for one that requires a bit less wind. I'd say that that is Mrs. dependent. My wife is very kite understanding, but have never shown the slightest interest in grabbing the lines. Try arguing by something like perhaps: it will get me out of the sofa and get me more exercise, it is way cheaper than real world piloting and does not consume fuel and the fine motoric skills needed demands low intake of alcohol.

1. Hat and sun protection! Kite stakes? - I've never owned one and very rarely seen the need for one. 2. In Peter Peters Kite site there is a suggestion of the order that you can learn tricks. http://www.idemployee.id.tue.nl/p.j.f.peters/kites/basics/flying.split.html basic launch basic landing pull turn push turn combination turn stall spin stall snap stall leading edge launch fly away pancake belly launch cartwheel axel 180 flat spin wing tip stand Below I modified the list, but that is only my point of view/experience: basic launch pull turn basic landing (a bit earlier than the above list - But it will always come down, won't it?) push turn combination turn stall turtle (I added) snap stall axel spin stall cartwheel pancake belly launch wing tip stand leading edge launch 180 flat spin fly away (???) While you are at PP kite site - a trick list: http://www.idemployee.id.tue.nl/p.j.f.peters/kites/basics/funcidx.html See it as a reference list in which you later might increase your (depth of) understanding of. It can serve as a complement to all the videos. A well documented case of learning how to fly duals can be found in @Happyspoon 's blog "Learning to Fly Dual Lines": http://kitelife.com/forum/blogs/blog/17-learning-to-fly-dual-lines/ 3. Learn, learn, learn that when launching your hands forward the kite will stop/slow down. Really remember this when being close to the ground! No, the kite will not break if you throw your arms forward before impact. Also try to be more than 500m downstreams of any objects on your field to get the non-turbulent winds. 4. Modifying your question - now relating to all my duals. The parts that I've not broken are: The centre T-connector. ferrules, endcaps inside the nose, endcaps on battens, endcaps on stand offs, upper leading edges, top spreader, possibly the spine and possibly the bridle. Also when the design is so that the lower spreaders are connected with a rod - I've never broken the rod. BUT EVERYTHING ELSE I'VE MANAGED TO BREAK! Parts that are prone to breaking or rather the common failures are: broken lower leading edges, broken stand offs when caught on something or a line is around them during start and a worn out nose so that the spars pop out through it. If the inside of your lower spreaders on the spine side are not plugged (if the connection is such that you insert the LS to the fitting) it might snap during a hard snap stall.

Thank you for this documentary video. It is evident that it is a righteous take down of an unauthorized SLK delta by the quad police. It should never have been granted access to the field in the first place. To clarify things: I'm not a multi-line kite extremist - I love all kites and do not believe in turning the field into an enclosure! Btw., Nice flying. In addition to normal flying you here also need to be able to judge the distance to the kites.

The big day - First cold session with the Fazer XXL Fri Jan 6 17:10:50 CET 2017 GF, forecasted 3m/s, (-11degC) Fazer XXL on 35m 180kg lines Today was the big day, the first time with the Fazer XXL. I therefore went to the big field with room for the lines - the closest field is not just big enough. This larger field is not next to a beach so that the wind is typically a bit less than the forecast suggests here. That was something I saw as a bonus when approaching the field not really knowing what to expect regarding the pull of the kite. This kite will most likely be the one kite whose leading edges I take apart before transport. The length of the Fazer XXL's sleeve with the LE assembled is about 2.25m and my ski bag (mostly used for kites however) is 2.15m. When seeing the kite assembled you realize that you never will find it beautiful. However I have gradually learnt to accept the appearance of it and mind it less and less. It turned out that it was a lighter wind than to my liking - I should have been on one of the "kite hills" of the field to get a bit higher wind close to the ground, but I didn't want to compete too much about the space with the skiing powerkiters there. I had expected that the XXL also would have the corresponding oversteer as the XL. but quite quickly noticed that this wasn't the case. Yet I have shortened the upper outhaul of the XL by centimeters! The 90 deg turns of the were just a bit less instant than other kites (which is not surprising considering the size of the kite and perhaps the low wind), but there is no corresponding oversteer! I should compare the two bridles (and why not the sails at the same time?) closely one day. Perhaps one wind less day put a horisontal tight rope in the garden and let the XL and XXL hang down from the tow-points? The LE to LS fittings couldn't take negative forces - I often needed to do the walk of contemplation because a LS had popped out. It didn't take any hard ground contact for them to disconnect. On one occasion a cart wheel caused it to pop. This was the one most important thing to address when getting home. From the start and perhaps during the first hour I was very careful - after all this is a large kite. During the first half of the session the required force was somewhat a disappointment, but not the cardiovascular exercise that was provided by the conditions - running in the snow to keep the kite airborne and the large arm movements required made the heart pound. Later when the wind picked up somewhat, the position of the arms were more in front of me compared to when using other kites. It was kind of strange feeling having a kite that pulls noticeably and at the same time could feel a little under powered in the current wind. I had imagined that axels would be difficult to achieve and pitch based tricks to be more accessible. Well axels were no problem. Entering a turtle was something I didn't manage to do the few times I tried - the winds were a bit to light and sometimes more or less not there. There light wind conditions gave a bit crowded feel, but to my surprise axeling was a way to turn the kite during this limited maneuverability circumstances. Tricks were most often single isolated with few trick combos. I hope this will improve in a bit more wind. With a kite this size the trick execution took longer time. I could focus on following the kite during the axle and taking up slack during the revolution. Can this be the way to figure out the second pull of the half axle? Fade launches worked out well unless the wind was too low and the (very) local snow depth too deep (OUUUUUPS!!! - I fell backwards, but the snow made the fall soft!). Belly launches, that suited the light wind well, worked out well. Side slides and landing the kite backwards from a high altitude were also quite accessible - the large kite kind of evened out the "noise in input" (like a large low pass filter). When going home I talked to the remaining powerkiter. It seemed to be a nice person and I hope it wasn't the one who had previously shouted aggressively and rudely to the dog (and dog owner I presume) when the dog approached his kite. The rudeness in the shouting is really a bad move. In some board, some group, some meeting some where, some time that have the power of deciding what is a permitted activity, it is very much more likely to have dog owners than kiters represented! Well back to the topic - what we talked of was naturally kites: places (unfortunately no new near fields were reveled) and compared our activities. He was so into the powerkiting, so I saw no point in promoting duals. However when I mentioned that I knew of a very maneuverable smaller quad foil that wasn't so expensive (the Smithi Pro), he appeared interested and seemed careful to memorize this. For how I dealt with the low temperature this day see the posts http://kitelife.com/forum/topic/7601-prism-nexus-maiden-flight/?do=findComment&comment=62116 and http://kitelife.com/forum/topic/7601-prism-nexus-maiden-flight/?do=findComment&comment=62178 . Follow up - minor mods and physical exercise aspects: The most urgent mod to the kite was to do something to the LS that kept popping out from the LE fitting at the slightest ground contact. A very simple solution - wind tape a couple of turns around the outer side of the LS to increase the diameter. I used some white "general purpose" tape (much like electrical insulation tape). The tape was only added to outmost part the LS so that it couldn't be seen when inserted in the LE fitting. If it would pop out (even if I don't think it will) I would see it more easily now as a white dot against the sail (from 35m away). The second and third mod was to add small string loops to secure the sail tensioners and also the battens. I used a budget 1.5 mm synthetic line. It turned out that it was not possible to make knots that lasted (strange since the line was sold as bricklayer's cord - they must also be able to make knots) First I tried to melt the knots so that they wouldn't open. This failed because it weakened the molten/non-molten interface too much. What seemed to work was to seal the knot with hot glue (but not too much heat could be applied or the line would go weak again). If I only had ordered more of the (quite thin) sleeved 90kg dyneema line to use instead! I got something that a rarely get when doing kiting: sore muscles and this time it was close to everywhere (e.g. it completely beats me how you can get sore abdominal muscles from kite flying!)! I don't know if this would have been better if there would have been more wind so that there would be less requirement of running around in snow (which slows you down). The only time that I got something that resembles this is from a few windy sessions with the Fazer XL, but the soreness was then less. In a way this is great news. From an hour of tennis I don't get sore muscles (possibly a very slight and modest receipt-of-activity the day after, but I don't think of it as soreness or discomfort), so to make a more complete healthy exercise/training I should add a weekly Fazer XXL session. No, not realistic, to time consuming to get to the large field, but at least some times when I happen to be there I try to add some XXL time for the sake of training - I mean this is way more fun than just jogging/running or doing push-ups etc (which therefore never gets done)... ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ Forgetting how to FA and some tricking on ice Sun Jan 22 15:14:34 CET 2017 GB forecasted 6 m/s (didn't matter though... much less in reality) Hydra on 20m 38 kg lines Kymera on 25m, 38kg lines There has been a long time since I flew something "normal" during "normal" conditions. The last time for this was with the Infinity and the Kymera in the beginning of December. The reasons for these few and "abnormal" sessions that I can recall are: a low wind session in rain, traveling, a very hard wind session and the new Fazer XXL. As the title says, I didn't get the FAs going today and I also didn't feel much in touch with the finer control. OK, even though the flying was not great I guess this was a necessary session - After a (kind of) break there is always a first session of (hopefully) coming back in form. Can using a large kite affect how you handle normal sized ones? How much of the muscle memory carries over from one activity to another after days weeks and perhaps also more or less permanent habits? Two observations from recent tennis playing. My wife and daughter watched for some minutes when I was playing - a quite rare event since we play at different times and groups. They said something like (but not literally) that when I run it is with long steps that looks like something of an elk on the loose (you must be close to someone to hear the truth). So now to the parallel in kiting, how do you run backwards and forwards there? - You increase the length of the step and run smoothly to be able to maintain constant tension or slack. Another tennis example: another player remarked that it seemed to be a god day for me because many aspects worked out, but that I constantly forgot to stop completely when running to the net and doing volleys (you should stand as stable as possible when aiming and be equally prepared for a ball coming on either side of you). Unfortunately, the player that kindly had praised my play that day, didn't make any reservations when I mentioned my family's elk analogy. So the kiting parallel to running to the net could be moving forwards when doing a 540 or a FA in the centre of the wind window on a somewhat windy day. After the flare of the 540 and to maintain a fade I've trained hard to maintain the forward motion (and not to stop as when doing volleys in tennis) Does this sound exaggerated? - Well I certainly spend more time kiting than playing tennis, so if there is any cross-talk in the pattern of one's movement between these activities I'd expect kiting to dominate. Normally the preferred wind direction is normal to the beach. But today the wind was close to parallel. I therefore got a chance to try the kite (the kite - not me) on ice. Tested some side slides while in contact with the ice (such as those shown a while ago in the "Follow us on Facebook" frame in the top right corner of the KL forum main page). The sliding on Ice was quite straight forward with the only pit fall being if the kite fell from or towards you. Due to the low friction the nocks won't only slide side-wards but can also happen to slide forwards or backwards so that the kite falls. This made normal starts difficult as well. If the kite was on it's back I needed to tow the kite on the ice until I could find a stone or a stick that someone had thrown out (and now was stuck in the ice) and use that to hold one nock so that the kite could be pulled up into start position. The sleeping beauty starts were instead helped by the smooth ice layer - there was nothing that could accidentally grab the nose when doing the "ground back spin". When thinking of it - could I have done some risk free dead launch practice on the ice (or would the hard floor like surface of the ice make dead launches impossible)?

Here is some more at Tweelijners. A set of descriptions (including some flight properties and history) and plans of the Belgian kites (Le Quartz, Horizon, L' Organic, Temppu Leija, B'zar and Le Vortex) can be found at: http://www.tweelijners.com/Kites_from_Belgium/start.html No, no building for me as it looks like today - that would take the time I have/take for flying (and I never had a sewing machine anyway). However some dreaming now and then is an available option and is also free of charge. There is a video of these kites, "Le grand Organic à la plage", that I like much. It is playful, artistic, shows nice coastal views, good flying and seems to be filmed with high quality gear and is well edited. Don't watch this on your mobile since the mood of it might not be conveyed! See and listen in front of a decent monitor and give it your attention during it's full 8:27 minutes!:

I don't agree. Kites are also flying ideas and what materials they are made of is only a part of it. Also, for how many years can a 6mm pultruded carbon fibre spar still be "advanced". For me with more framed duals than I dare to say to my wife, it certainly isn't bamboo that is the standard material. Perhaps "modern" is a better word for many modern/contemporary kite materials rather than "advanced"? Or a set of mini-arches to form a tunnel? (sorry, couldn't stop myself)

Have you toyed with the idea of any other arrangements than a train? I mean, with all these detailed artwork, it would be a pity if the detail got lost because of a too far distance from the viewer. On a place with good wind also close to the ground, one could have a horisontal kite train. Something like a long line, possibly 3m up from the ground and/or in bright colours so that no one trips on it. There could be streamers wound around the few vertical lines holding the horisontal line to the ground to reduce the risk of someone walking into them. Each kite is then given a very short line so that it doesn't go higher then about 4m. This would then be an art exhibition that you most likely and literally see from the start to the end. Another idea could be to have a kite carpet where the viewer freely chooses in which order to see the kites. Some possible arrangements: a six by six horisontal kite arrangement with two kites stacked in the corners (just starting to form a second layer). 5x8 and 4x10 would also make use of all the kites. Yet another idea could be to make essentially two layers by a 3x6 repeated twice - four kites are then left to place e.g. in the corners. Or two layers of 4x4 with eight remaining to form "towers" in the corners? Yet another idea could be the comet - the centre is a 3x3x3 kite block and the 13 remaining kites can be used as kite train comet tails. Yet another idea could be a wall (2x20, 4x10 or 5x8). Yet another idea is the room - fold the wall around the viewer. Possibly have a dedicated entrance, so that the kites can be lowered somewhat so that they are in the same height as the viewer (or would the viewer cause too much turbulence for the kites then?). Yet another idea is the view - From one single point on the ground the kites are arranged so that they cover the viewer's field of vision. If the winds close to the ground are not good enough for really low flying kites one could use a lifter kite to hold the corners (if any) of the horisontal connecting line(s). If one would like to hide the lifter - use a long line and no line laundry. If one would like the lifter to be a part of the installation - use a shorter line and much line laundry. I like to point out that I have no intention of telling "what you really ought to do" - just sharing the different ideas that formed after seeing your activities being described here. The above are general ideas with no details. Implementing any of it would mean that one would need to solve many practical design issues to actually make it work (perhaps there are already existing SLK-formations like this?). I don't know how kite train stacks are typically implemented (but is in the happy state of coming up with "likely" designs). I'm impressed by advanced SLKs - part of the reason I guess is that it is foreign to me. ARRGGG..... I just realized - the end result is not 40 kites, it will be 60 kites! Nope brainstorm session is over, but 60 kites gives even more opportunities (and work) than 40 kites. Good Luck with your kite train and happy painting!!

I agree. The black and red looks more "alive/healthy" IMO.

Harmonic simplicity in #1. Possible with any rounded seams?

When being out last Sunday with my only two kites with (integrated) leaders, the Kymera and the Hydra, I felt a bit pedantic. Therefore when disassembling I had the leaders to go around the sail and stand-offs as in the Kymera assembly/disassembly video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgHexOZ2LRY . Moments before that I noticed when carrying the kite, that you can trip on the leaders hanging down on the ground. All air of professionalism is then suddenly gone in a puff and your pride gets hurt, even without falling, on this for a change somewhat well populated winter day on the beach. Leaders on ice.

I take the liberty of returning to the topic to some extent by continuing to discuss kites and patents. I saw a research kite video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIZr3R5JnEs ) that touched on topics related to line phenomena like flow, weight/load of a really long line and waves along the line (actually it was only one click away on Youtube from Watty Spencers quad video). There the "line" or rather, more general, tether was given a foil-like cross section. This should give the tether much less drag even though the tether/line became much wider (now the reduced drag isn't something Revolutionary, streamlined stays have been around "for ages" and can be found between the wings on a biplane aircraft). The Youtube title, "20km High Kite Flying" seems to be fetched out of the blue not really having anything to do with the contents of the video. Being very picky, isn't the aerodynamical centre (=centre of lift?) drawn awfully far to the rear in the video? The leading edge of the foil was a long tube in the video. When seeing this I thought why not have all lines of a multi line kite going through this tube (give the inside of the tube a teflon coating or other low friction surface). At least for speed kites this could be something or possibly if you want to make the wind window larger for other kites. For such a simple idea to let the lines go through a long foil of almost the entire line length of a multi line kite, I'm sure that this thought is not original. After all, everything has been there for a long time: foils, kites and multi lines. (When coming up with this idea I'm standing on the shoulders of others - also in a wider aspect that I live such a life that I'm in a position to have an opportunity to think these thoughts). That someone somewhere has made such idea public in some way is also likely. Now, assume/pretend that no one discussed this idea in a sport kite context (or have someone already made life more difficult by "protecting" it?), would this post offer any kind of protection against any restriction on freedom of kite designers/builders/users/companies/thoughts (OK, "thoughts" is a bit indirect, but thoughts are shaped by activity, which can be limited by regulations)? Or is it so that this post just made things worse? - is it so that there is no protection and the idea is just there for the taking now? Are there any better ways of making ideas public so that they can't be patented etc... ? Would building an implementation (even a very poor one) and putting it on Youtube, Vimeo, Metacafe... (and try to make it as "searchable" as possible) be better than a post? Any other ways? B.t.w. trying to understand things or guessing where a certain thing/video/text/reasoning is heading often causes now thoughts to emerge. Use them for good stuff!