Dave362

Ha! Thats funny. I saw those bruisers StainedSkin flies and figured I might squeak by with a 40 I obviously know nothing of KAP. Time to learn.......

15 hours? can I fly my 4D on the plane????

Thank you very much, great info! What did you use for the rod?

I was flying my QP standard this morning, and everything was grooving but the Taz was inconsistent. Since I'm comfortable withe the slot, I'm going to practice an extended slot, using an additional input while the nose is away, just like Taz to keep the rotation going. Getting better at that input should make my Taz more consistent. I was thinking someone who is comfortable with the Axel could do the same thing and have the opportunity to practice the back half of the slot before trying the whole move. Baby steps?

12 hour flight? And I want to make it to New York sometime to fly with Rob. Looks like I need a better frequent flyer plan.......

I saw a picture of one of these with the streamer tail, same as my avitar. Looks pretty nice! 40 sq feet, very attractive price. I don't really have anything to lift with it, maye some light duty KAP. I just think it would be a cool kite. What do you folks think?

On my GPS, both lower and upper spreaders popped out of the LE fittings after awhile. They stayed in the T pretty well, though. So the tape strategy was only meant for the LE fittings. Sure would like to try an ATM someday. They look great!

I've had spreaders coming out of the fittings Lam just said to put some tape around the end of the spar. Just took a minute and holds fine. On your flic flacs: be careful in the flair (nose away) not to let the nose rise above the spine. If you do, some kites will want to slide toward you rather than rotate. Congrats on your progress with one very cool kite!

Boy, that ATM is a looker! Flight reports, please!

EDIT: sorry, I didn't see the 4th page and Robs decription, so some of this is redundant They are both flat spins and therefore closely related. The 540 is entered from a flair, or nose away, so the kite is already flat when the rotation starts. Also, the 540 is done with only one input or pull, like a backspin. Often, but not always, the 540 is preceeded by a vertical dive. Lately guys are doing them as part of a flic flac. (check out Rob's snow vid) The Taz is entered from a half axel, so the nose is pointed to either edge, as in a horizontal pass. So the kite has to go from wings being vertical to flat in the first part of the rotation. All those things can varied at which point there is considerable overlap between the two tricks. The most important issue for the flyer is the Taz has a second input given while the nose is away to begin the flat spin. If there was no second input, the kite would just finish the half axel and fly away in the opposite direcction, or whatever. Can you do a single pull double axel that looks like a Taz? sure. Can you add inputs during any flat spin to keep it going, thereby creating a Taz like move? absolutely. Flat spins are flat spins and if you watch advanced trick videos, like you might find in VF, you'll see lots of flat spins thrown in as transitional moves, just llike when someone throws a slot or Taz between two reps of a cascade. Just for clarification, the slot begins as a half axel, but the flat spin is initiated by the same hand and rotates in the opposite direction of the half axel Hope that helps!

Stupid work for sure! So Rob, would you try this on your Solus at some point? Very curious as to how a tricky kite like that responds to the second input. Its weird how clear those tutorials seem, like its all there. Yet often I find i need a little more info, usually regarding timing. I've got a friend from Tacoma WA who is just a natural at all this stuff. He just seems to intuitively grasp what needs to be done. I too flailed away at the 540 for months. Then I went to Long Beach with this guy and stood right next to him flying Prism Illusions. I learned the 540 by watching him in about an hour.

When I had my success i was flying the Ocius UL. This is not a very modern/radical design and flatspins like an old school Prism. I'll be at the beach in a couple of weeks and plan to do some testing in smooth winds with a variety of kites. I'm curious to discover the degree to which different kites will give up this trick. I'll report back. I may do a test or study video on some of these moves. so far my theory is a spin happy kite like your Mowhawk 2 or the Ocius make the trick easier. Another factor may be kites that are less prone to pitch. Example: I have had absolutely no success with this trick on my GPS, yet it does slots like a dream. Brian, next time out would you begin with your Mowhawk2, get the trick grooving and then switch to the original? I'm curious as to the degree of effect changing kites will have when the move is flowing during a single session. Since this trick is new to all of us, I'm thinking we'll need to do some R and D to come up with a truly useful methodology that will prove helpful. At that point, we might think of starting a new thread that goes directly to our findings, which will be easily accessable to those researching this trick. if anyone is wiling to try the move on a few different kites, your input would be valuable.

Anybody have stories about good days flying your single line kites? I have a simple one from today. I was cleaning the basement and found a 7 ft DC my wife and I bought years ago when I was in Grad school. I dusted it off and larks headed some line to the bridle and asked my wife to come to the window and watch. I took it out in the yard and got it up about 10 feet in the light breeze. She aplauded and I laughed out loud with joy. I don't know what it is, but the sight of a single line sail filling with air just inspires delight. So i folded the kite up and placed it in my bag for an upcoming beach trip. The DC rides again! So how about you? Any flight reports or stories you'd like to share?

I'd wait for the replacement rod. That shattering spine could cause serious damage to the sail. Is there a shop nearby that could provide a replacement? If not, Prism is great to deal with in these matters. Just give them a call. I'm sure someone who knows better than me will chime in, but I was sure there was supposed to be some kind of shock system in the spine. The ones I've flown all had them... I think once you get it all sorted out you'll be glad to have it. The Quantum is a really nice flying kite with great presence in the sky. Best of luck with your new kite!

Thanks, Rob. I wish I could pull of half the things you do, especially the presentation and flow. Maybe someday....

Rob, I appreciate your insights and thank you for all you've tought me on here. I thnk everyone responds to and learns from different methodologies. I also think we all probably fly for different reasons. For me, the skill building and breaking things down into smaller events to practice are what I get the most fun out of. For others, it might be the poetry. One of the coolest things about kiting is all these different approaches are awesome. And whats really interesting is most find their own way to what they are looking for.

ok, let's look at this..... When you took the lines of that JJF the first day at Ocean shores, you did a turn, and the mood of the whole beach changed. A TURN!!!!!!!! I think we'll leave the lessons with you for now..........

I got it!!!!!!!!!!!!! Went out today and figured it out. I got it numerous times in both directions, enough to feel I've gone through the door, rather than just got lucky. Sorry for the upcoming detailed explanation, but I feel it might help someone like me who had seen the tutorials, knew the inputs and still couldn't get it. FIrst, if you truly get that orientation, nose above the tail when away, you have plenty of leeway in the timing for the second input. Trouble was, I never saw it because my half axel was lame. The little setup move everyone describes regarding the lower wing before hitting the half axel isnt absolutely needed for some moves. You can hit a good cascade without it, half axel to fade, etc. But for the Taz, that setup move really helps to get a good, authoritive half axel which will flatten the kite out and get it into the proper orientation. Its easy, for me, to get a little lazy sometimes....even though a good setup always helps. BTW, you can pull the lower wing toward you or push the upper wing away. Either works fine. Also, Don't get carried away trying to "pop" it, ar make a big deal out of it. The goal is just to have the executing wing back a bit, Just like how they used to teach Axels back in the day. Read an old trick kite book Like Gomberg's excellent Stunt Kite Magic if you want to know what I mean. Once I was using crisp, energetic half axels, the kite always went to the proper orientation. The second input was easy from that orientation, and uncovered my second and final error: not folling the second input with enough slack. I started taking a step toward the kite after the second input. Instantly, the kite completed a beautiful flat spin, just like in the videos! I did it a bunch of times in both directions, just to be sure I had it So to summarize, 1. Use the setup move for the half axel. 2. watch for the proper orientation, nose above the tail, spine pointing right at you. 3. Make the second input a smooth pull from tension, just like in a backsin., otherwise you'll pull the kite out of the air. 4. Immediately after the second input, push the executing hand toward the kite and take a step forward. 5. Big grin!

hmmm. I just watched these again. Both Martin and Randy highlight the nose high position as key. for the second input. Maybe I'm not letting the kite go flat enough after the half axel to get the nose up? ahhhhh.... I need to practice....... Still looks to me like they're pulling the second input just after the nose has come around past center. Anybody else see this?

there is also the issue in the Taz of slack management as the input hands alternate. So If I Fly left to right and initiate with the left hand (top wing) when I make the second input with the right hand I might not be getting enough slack into the left line during the second input.

Thanks, Brian, for getting these up to discuss. When interpreting these tutorials it seems the second pull happens with the nose away and the above the tail from the flyers perspective. I've found that timing too early. When I have had success with this move it has been by waiting until the nose has gone past center and is coming around. I find the slot much easier because the second input is with the same hand, and happens very soon after the first input. The first input for the slot almost feels like a setup move for the second in that the second input feels like it bounces off the first. if that makes any sense.... In the Taz, since the wing doesnt change direction, it feels like the second input could happen anywhere.

Mark, you are correct. The problem is the second input. I think a big issue for me is the timing of the second input, and that it seems kite specific. SparkieRob, thanks for the tip. I've studied all the tutorials and still can't get any consistency, so I figured I'd put it up for discussion.

wait wait....... time out..... Where on earth did you find a new Peter Powell? I haven't seen one of those since the '80s John, iQuad with tails is sick! You guys were so good its unreal. Its so cool how the tails fly downwind. What a unique perspective!

Hi all, asking for help on this one...... I've seen all the tutorials but this one still gives me fits. Sometimes I think I've just about got it and then it goes south. Any advice?

will do. i'm eying the '60 as well. My thirty pulls suprisingly well and never gets hard to handle. However, I'm betting you could lift pretty much anything you wanted under the 60. I might get a pulley and straps for walking larger kites down. For now, I'm excited to get my '30 on a beach and see what it will lift in a decent wind.