tuning Pigtails / Leaders (tuning your quad revisited)

[Naksa]

I didn't want make a new thread on an old topic, so here's a thread revival question or two - 

NOTE FROM ADMIN: This post was split off from its original thread (link below) to allow a new line of conversation for our newest members.

I read just most of the posts in this thread and I am left feeling like after 8-9 years of flying, I still don't fly with enough brake! I remember changing my style a few years back and finding what I felt like was more neutral space/control after acquiring new leaders... but learning that JB runs a 10" top/bottom difference or '10" of brake' is insane! 😳 Quite a few other guys mentioned closer to 5-6" of brake... which is twice or three times more than what Im normally flying on lighter days. 
I just measured where my JB handles/leaders were after a relatively light 8-10mph wind day and im at 2.25" of brake on my vintage Rev 1.5 full sail. Lines are equalized. I had a fun day flying, all directions, clean hovers, good speed control, easy turns and spins, lots of inverted hovers, slides + backwards practice, tip drags & inverted slides in the ocean, etc... I did do a good bit of walking backwards to keep up in the lighter wind but - I always felt like pulling the top line in gave me a bit more power in light wind? but this thread makes me feel like I've got that feeling backwards... 

More brake (moving further out on the top line) would give me better control/sail on light days? (Once Im off the ground, sounds like takeoff will require more effort) Is that what yall mean when we talk about 'squaring up' to the wind? So the leading edge would be effectively higher/further away, allowing more air to fill the sail? 

After reading all this and the mention of oversheeting above, which I have noticed a little bit of - I think I could benefit from more brake, which means a solid double whomp take off strategy and more mid-flight whompage as well. 

My question for JB would be why not sell your leader kits with even more length on the top line? Allowing one to get out past 6" of brake? Is that realm just for alien whompers like you? 😉

I really enjoy understanding the technical side of tuning and flying so I appreciate all the amazing posts and information in this thread! Let me know if Ive got my head in the right place with this or I am missing something or confusing the strategy here. 🙏

 

[John Barresi]

Reading and replying as I have time (lots going on atm), but I wanted to start by clarifying that the top leaders on my Pro Handles from Kite Forge are 7" in length and long enough for almost any quad kite in most hands - plenty for the Djinn, which (1) already has an extra inch or so of brake built into the bridle and (2) has a load-sharing function between the top and bottom connections so that the gas (forward drive) doesn't take over and run amok so easily as it does with classic quad bridles. 😉 

Also, the "Pro Leader" kits I sell through Kite Forge actually come with enough material to add a couple additional knots if so desired. 😇 

[John Barresi]

Have you had a chance to look at any tuning tutorials? 

There is an old one I did in the KiteLife Subscribers downloads, and a much newer one at the link below.

https://kiteforge.com/tutorials/quad-line-kite-tuning-theory/

Among all the many, many recreational fliers I meet, there are all kinds of preferences on how much brake they use in their settings.

You said you're getting good performance for yourself and seem to be generally happy with the experience, so I'm moved to ask - what is it you're trying to improve, or is it just a matter of "everyone said"?

Not being snide at all, genuine inquiry. 😇 

[John Barresi]

It might also be worth looking simply for sake of discussion, at how fliers hold their handles during flight...

My leaders are tuned first and foremost so that when I go "full gas", it's the right amount of gas with no oversheeting or loss of pressure - I've tuned out any additional amount of thumb back / forward that might cause the sail to flutter or loose pressure (key signs of oversheeting).

Basic looks at how I'm holding my handles during flight...

https://kiteforge.com/tutorials/quad-line-kite-tutorial-figure-8-and-180s/

https://kiteforge.com/tutorials/quad-line-kite-flight-and-control/

What you might notice is that I'm not "holding" my brake lines back when I'm in normal forward flight, not really managing them at all - bottom of the handles are nearly straight out, thumbs at full tip back.

Another pilot, using more forward in the settings, but almost always managing or balancing the brake lines through forward flight, a balancing act between top and bottom lines throughout:

Neither right or wrong, but good visual contrast between the two different approaches to tuning.