Back Spin

[Dean750]

Up high in the window I don't have to many problems with this.

But at lower heights the nose drops and the kite recovers everytime. Just don't seem to be able to get it to spin. Any ideas?

[windofchange]

Move forward to compensate for the increase in wind when the kite is directly down wind from you. Up higher there is less wind on the sail than when the kite is lower in the window.

[grooz23]

i have had more problems with this by trying it from a fade...over and over again. i gree it is easier to start from higher positions but the way that i openend up this move was doing it in what i believe is called a "turtle" i.e. on its back, nose away from you. at this position and with enough slack it works perfectly for me everytime. i still have yet to do it from a fade, but then again i am not very good and have NO ONE to fly and learn with/from. it has been all trial and error and a few tutorials online which have helped...not very much (that's where i got the fade to backspin lesson)

[JoneZ]

Try over rotating the nose before initiating the backspin input. ie. having the nose pointing farther up in the fade than normal. From what I've read, and seen, it looks as though some kites need that exaggerated fade so the wind can catch the kites belly and hold it in that position while the kite is being rotated.

I've been trying to pull off a backspin from a fade, and have almost got it. My Quantum requires that exaggerated flare. Every time I've tried it from a flat fade it dives and recovers. I would have got it already if the winds weren't so darn choppy around my parts.

I just need one good day at Delta Park where the winds are more steady. Too bad gas is at $4.00+ a gallon, and I can't justify going up there most the time because the Jeep gets about 17Mpg. o.0

i have had more problems with this by trying it from a fade...over and over again. i gree it is easier to start from higher positions but the way that i openend up this move was doing it in what i believe is called a "turtle" i.e. on its back, nose away from you. at this position and with enough slack it works perfectly for me everytime. i still have yet to do it from a fade, but then again i am not very good and have NO ONE to fly and learn with/from. it has been all trial and error and a few tutorials online which have helped...not very much (that's where i got the fade to backspin lesson)

[Dean750]

Cool, I'll have to try letting the nose rising in the fade before I start the rotation.

Thanks for the tips. I'll get it eventually.

On a good note though... since trying the spinning fade usually ends up with a recovery instead, I'm almost getting consistant stepping forward into a back flip then getting the half lazy susan. Before you know it maybe Jacobs Ladder will become consistant.

Screw up on trick and learn another. Funny how that works. Did a bad slot machine and got a single Comet I learned the slot machine on a tip stand. (Dodd Gross Flight School) Doing it in the air is alot harder than I thought it would be. Wish I had a VHS so I could watch that again.

Keep the tips coming. Most of us could use them

Dean

[JoneZ]

bahh. Still havent got a backspin from a fade yet. The kite is still recovering, even with the exaggerated flare. Am I pulling too hard on the initial pull? I don't think so, cuz all the tutorials say to give a good pull to initiate rotation, and all subsequent inputs require less pull than the first.

0.o Where am I going wrong here??

-confused

~Jon

[Dean750]

I haven't been able to get it to spin from the fade either. But you know, when the kite rolls over to recover, if you step forward and throw your arms out, the kite should flop onto it's back. Pull one or the other line and move forward for the half lazy susan, when the nose is pointing at you pop both lines to get back into the fade. first rung of the jacobs ladder.

I keep trying to get the spinning fade and finally realized in screwing it up I was setting up something else.

Dean

[Dean750]

This is a good high quality video of the jacobs ladder. Just a thought if the back spin is getting frustrating as it is with me.

Dean

[John Barresi]

Tons of great info here...

http://sportkiteflyer.spaces.live.com/list...9B3F7C!103/

Randy's tutorials were a huge help when I brought my dual line flying up to speed in 2005.

[Dean750]

For some reason I can only get one or two of those vids to play. Normally I can view anything till I try watching the turorials by Randy.

The R-Sky kites also seem to fly a bit different than my MEFM.

John, are you going to be in Lincoln City this month? Maybe you could try my M and see if you can get it. Tell me what I'm doing wrong.

I'm so happy, Warren McIntoch, the new maker of the MEFM is working with me to get new sails. Looking forward to competing here pretty soon.

Dean

[Dean750]

BTW Barresi,

When if EVER was your flying dual line not up to speed. I won't say it again, but I know you either started it, or learned it real quick.

Dean

[John Barresi]

Won't be at Lincoln City Summer Festival, sorry... Will be there for the Fall Festival in October however.

Dual line flying, when I retired (for the 2nd time) in 1998 I was at the top of my game... Between then and 2002 when I came back, slack line tricks (jacobs ladder, roll ups, etc) really came to North America and I didn't catch the curve... A bit stuck up, I stayed "old school" until 2005 when I picked up Lam Hoac's Sea Devil and went through Randy's tutorials one by one until I was again a force in dual line competition.

Now, I fly dual lines maybe 2-8 hours per year, spending most of my time on the Revs.

Even so, most of my quad time is spent flying team... Absolutely the most pleasurable thing I've ever done in kiting.

[Dean750]

Thats cool. I've always enjoyed Rev flying. But one day we didn't have enough 150# line to go around for all our kites that we threw up and my Rev lines were used. 30+ mph winds even on a 6 ft Prism Ion cause a little stretch. That was pretty much the end of fun with my Rev 1.

Dual line has always been an idividual kind of challenge. One that I've not mastered. I believe Rev flying would be a serious BLAST in a team format. But since I'm the only one in this area that really fly's I try to be the best I can be with what I've got.

Rev's are like riding a bike, once you figure out the control, it only takes a second to get it back over a period of time. Or so I've learned in my forced 8 year lay off. Stretched lines and all

Dean

[John Barresi]

Too bad you're not coming to the 4th of July Rev clinic, gonna be a hoot.

[Dean750]

WOOOOO-HOOOOO I got a back spin from the fade!!!!!!!!!

Just once, but I did it. Man it's pretty with the MEFM.

I was in the third rung of a cascade, pointing to the right, popped the left line for the next half axle and as soon as the nose started to point away from me I gave a quick pop and continued to pull with the right hand which flipped the kite into fade and then spun twice for a back spin to single tip stand landing. I felt so cool.

Dean

[John Barresi]

The trick with a back spin is walk into it, keep the lines fairly slack.

Nice job Dean, keep after it.

[Dean750]

I was out in about 14mph winds today. I layed my M all the way back to the black setting and finally managed to get into a fade and wolla. Back spin. LOL, now if I can just get it in the NORMAL wind around here.

Dean

Thanks Mr. Barresi Walking into it worked

[randyg]

For some reason I can only get one or two of those vids to play. Normally I can view anything till I try watching the turorials by Randy.

Dean, there should be no reason you cannot watch all of the tutorials. Some of my first were rendered in .wmv format but the video quality was fairly poor. To correct that problem, I started compressing using a DivX program which results in a file type .avi. If you download the DivX codec at www.divx.com you should be able to watch all the tutorials.

Another option is to download VLC player that will play virtually any video there is. It can be downloaded here: www.videolan.org

Good luck with it.

BTW, thanks John.

Randy

[Dean750]

Thank you for the VideoLAN link. Now I have no problems viewing the vids on your site.

Now if I can get the Jacobs Ladder. Gotta try throwing my hand to the side instead of strait back for the Half Lazy Susan. Currently when I give the input for the Lazy, my lines jump the tips and I end up back in the fade position.

Dean

[randyg]

Thank you for the VideoLAN link. Now I have no problems viewing the vids on your site.

Now if I can get the Jacobs Ladder. Gotta try throwing my hand to the side instead of strait back for the Half Lazy Susan. Currently when I give the input for the Lazy, my lines jump the tips and I end up back in the fade position.

Dean

You should be pulling straight back. Don't get into the habit of swinging your arms out to the side. Let the nose go deeper before you go for the Lazy Susan. Depending on the kite, it should fix your problem. Play around with it to see what your kitet likes.

MEFM's are pretty old school I guess and I have no experience with them.

Randy

[Dean750]

I'll keep trying. I started changing bridal settings till I learned the back spin. I've notice some of the other tricks take a little more effort than they used to. So I'll also try moving the bridle back to where I'd normally fly and see if that'll fix the problem. I'd hate to have to relearn something because of a bridle adjustment.

Thank you for the advice, I'll be needing alot of it for a while.

Dean

[JoneZ]

You should be pulling straight back. Don't get into the habit of swinging your arms out to the side. Let the nose go deeper before you go for the Lazy Susan. Depending on the kite, it should fix your problem. Play around with it to see what your kitet likes.

MEFM's are pretty old school I guess and I have no experience with them.

Randy

Im still having trouble on this backspin from a Fade. Turtle position is fine, but even with the nose deeper into the fade, the kite still wants to recover. I havent been keeping too close an eye on my hand positions, so I'll keep that in mind the next time Im out, but man, I've almost rolled that thing into a yoyo before inputing for the backspin, and the trick just crumples everytime.

On tutorials I've watched, backspins look like they are about to recover (they spin on a 40-50degree axis, rather than true horizontal), and I don't see any tweaks made with hand movements during the execution, but they just fall back into the fade after the rotations. My Quantum just doesnt want to do that.

Perhaps my input is too hard??

Frustrating. Im sure I'll get it, but frustrating nonetheless.

Maybe I'll do my monthly line-check a little sooner - see if my lines vary a bit in length. Noticing a little difficulty rolling into an even fade.

Thanks for all the tutorials though Randy. They are helping a ton.

~J

[Dean750]

I'm not 100% consistant with the back spin, but the one thing that made a difference for me anyway was to lay the kite back on the bridle. For me the kite lays flatter in the fade. Then it's just a step forward with a pull at the same time.

Now that I'm getting a little more consistant with it I'm moving the bridle setting back to where I'd normally fly it at and I'm able to adjust.

Something to consider.

Dean

[JoneZ]

Good advise. I'll try that when the wind permits. I've been dealing with some pretty shallow winds lately (3-5), so laying the bridle back will make me not able to lift at all. As it stands, I've cut the "light wind" tag from my Q's bridle, and set my adjustment just past that mark when the winds are really light.

The Quantum says its a 3Mph minimum kite, but with the factory bridle settings its more like 5-7Mph minimum. With that adjustment I made, and moving the bridle forward past the factory light wind setting, Im able to fly in 3Mph winds - 2Mph without the top spreader and a whole lotta pumpage.

So yeah, upon closer inspection, maybe my bridle is too far forward to perform a backspin from a fade?

I'm not 100% consistant with the back spin, but the one thing that made a difference for me anyway was to lay the kite back on the bridle. For me the kite lays flatter in the fade. Then it's just a step forward with a pull at the same time.

Now that I'm getting a little more consistant with it I'm moving the bridle setting back to where I'd normally fly it at and I'm able to adjust.

Something to consider.

Dean

[Dean750]

Moving above your factory light wind setting is probably the problem. Once you learn with the kite laid back it's easier to adjust to when you pull the nose in. At least it was for me. I've had less than 5mph winds lately and have had to pull the nose in for lift. But I noticed tonight that with the nose pulled in for lighter wind I had to move forword more and give a lighter tug to get the back spin. Seems like by moving in more, when I gave the lighter tug there was enough slack that the tug pulled the nose down flat but it didn't want to roll over. If I didn't move forward enough then I got the roll out so I flipped my hands out as it rolled and put the kite in the turtle. Now if I could just keep the kite from loseing altitude so quick on its back I'd be able to do more than one rung of the Jacobs Ladder

If I remember right you started trickin with flic flaks, so I know you'll get it pretty quick. I'll start waving the sign again, maybe RxBurner will sacrifice something small and you could start getting back into the good with the wind goddess and we'd all be cool.

Dean