Wayne Dowler Posted August 11, 2013 Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 One of the things I've found dealing with wear - if you really like the leaders you're using now, make some short little "mini leaders" as attachments on your handles and larkshead the leaders to them!! Make yourself several sets in case of sudden wear and just replace the "minis" and reuse the other leader!! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted August 11, 2013 Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 Ohhh, that's nifty Wayne - thanks for sharing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 Learned the hard way after going through 2 sets of leaders on different handles! Decided to go with the "minis", since I liked the spacing of the leaders I had! Another trick is to make multiple sets, all the same length! That way they can be used as top "minis" or bottoms! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted August 11, 2013 Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 If you make heaps, then you can use them as pigtails to attach train lines between kites! Then you always have heaps of spare for handles!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted August 11, 2013 Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 One of the things I've found dealing with wear - if you really like the leaders you're using now, make some short little "mini leaders" as attachments on your handles and larkshead the leaders to them!! Make yourself several sets in case of sudden wear and just replace the "minis" and reuse the other leader!! Hey Wayne, I'd sure love to see a picture of "what you're describing", when you speak of "mini leaders". For some reason, I just can't quite seem to visualize what you mean. I do make my own leaders, whenever necessary, out of single strands of 170# bridal line. I have a loop in the end of the leaders, where they are attached to the handles (via the Watty snag-less method), but otherwise, they are just long (12" - 15") pieces of bridle line, with maybe eight, evenly spaced knots. My bottom leaders are much shorter (3" - 4"), with maybe just two knots. When I make them up, I usually make up several sets at a time, as they are quite easy to make, and I'll have spares, should I ever need them. The hardest part is making sure that the knots are evenly spaced, but most important, consistently "placed", from the left leader, to the right leader. The part I don't understand about the "mini leaders", is where do you put them, and where do they wear out ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 Sorry I don't have pix, but I'll try explaining! You know your home made bottoms? Imagine putting them on the top, then larksheading your regular leaders to them! Make them with just one knot for ease of use, I do the same on bottom anyways! If you get too much wear, just replace the short pigtail, larkshead the main leader to it, and off you go!! I do double over my bridle line on each one, probably overkill, strength-wise, but how I do it! I never had any problems with wear on my modded handles like yours, only since I switched to the no-snags! Movement of leaders through the hole and over itself, seem to be the issues of wear! I thought that having the leader exposed and rubbing of my thumb would be the major causes of wear, but it is the leaders themselves that are the worst reasons!! So I came up with the "mini" leaders that are expendable items! I got 2 pairs of no-snags last October, worn out a set of leaders on each pair!! Now I know I fly more than the average guy, but this was unexpected! Especially when it happened right as I was flying one day! Came up with this idea as a temporary solution, but the more I thought on it, the more sense it made! So I'm using it full time now!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted August 11, 2013 Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 Ok, so you've got a short (3" - 4") pigtail, with one knot, attached to both the top and bottom of your handles, then you lark's head your standard leaders, to that knot. Crap, I should have figured that out.................. Anyway, I've never had a wear problem, but I do keep extra sets, ready made-up, in the flight box............ Good idea though............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 Pretty easy solution - eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted August 11, 2013 Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 Pretty easy solution - eh? Yep...........but I still don't see why those handles, are wearing out your leaders, any worse than my set-up. I know you put in more hours than me, but I'm sure you use different sets of handles, for different types of flight. I basically use that same 13" set, for everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 I'm using 13" and 15" sets, both have had failures! The 15" had lighter weight leaders, but my 13" had heavier and both wore out! So the short "minis" solved the problem, sort of! May have a talk to the maker at WSIKF about this and see what he says about slowing down wear! Might be something he'll look at! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted August 11, 2013 Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 I think the idea here, is just that every time a leader *does* wear out at the handle point, it's easier to replace a tiny pigtail instead of tying X number of knots on a new leader and matching the length to your old one (or tying a whole new set). That being said, I burn out a leader approx every year to year and a half - just depends on how you like to be prepared. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 Every year?? Maybe my wear situation is not so crazy after all!! But the pigtails do solve it some! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 The wear would be from the "rub and flex" on the metal with Pro No Snags. On the modded handles you are rubbing on plastic which is softer and a little more forgiving. I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 Actually you connect to a screw fixed into the plastic anchor!! Either turn the screw with a drill to run a file over the threads or use a shoulder screw!! A friend thinks a vinyl cap placed over the leader and semi sealing the top, will eliminate the wear!! Might have to try it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 Yes, but the leaders on modded handles pivot point is where they come out of the end cap. Thus that is where the movement is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Mottram Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 One of the things I've found dealing with wear - if you really like the leaders you're using now, make some short little "mini leaders" as attachments on your handles and larkshead the leaders to them!! Make yourself several sets in case of sudden wear and just replace the "minis" and reuse the other leader!! Hi Wayne, I'm with JB here, definitely nifty and I will go this route also incorporating a staking loop so avoiding any wear or dislocation in that respect. The leaders I recently tied are with knots at 1/4 inch intervals... Felix 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 Nice to see you over here, Felix!! 1/4" apart?? I'd be in "paralysis by analysis" with that many knots to choose from!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Mottram Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 Nice to see you over here, Felix!! 1/4" apart?? I'd be in "paralysis by analysis" with that many knots to choose from!! Hi Wayne, I can assure you that given equal line lengths the short adjustments are sublime ;-) Your suggestion for replaceable terminations make this 'so good'. I will use polyester sleeved kevlar for the terminations and ground stake loops so should eliminate wear problems 'for a long time'... Felix 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaginCajun Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Actually you connect to a screw fixed into the plastic anchor!! Either turn the screw with a drill to run a file over the threads or use a shoulder screw!! A friend thinks a vinyl cap placed over the leader and semi sealing the top, will eliminate the wear!! Might have to try it! I use a modified version of the DIY snag less handles. Same anchor, but no screw. A shaft going through the handle and the mini line you speak of is larks headed to that. The screw method pinches the line, where this method doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted October 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I guess that's true if you tighten up the screw too tight! I tighten it down only til it is close, but not so tight nothing will move! But I do use no-snags now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 If you use a "Bugle head" screw, as in like a trumpet horn, there is a nice, smooth and tapered shaft to tie onto. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I use a modified version of the DIY snag less handles. Same anchor, but no screw. A shaft going through the handle and the mini line you speak of is larks headed to that. The screw method pinches the line, where this method doesn't. Could you post some pictures, so we can see what you are talking about. A pic in the "ready to fly" mode, then a few as you would take it apart, or put it together ............... A picture is worth a thousand words. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbailey49 Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I've actually had some pieces made at a local machine shop that will adapt the bottom of a standard handle into a no-snag. So you get the strength of the stainless steel tube with an aluminum insert that is epoxied in place that has the single hole like the no-snag handles. Working on some pictures. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I've actually had some pieces made at a local machine shop that will adapt the bottom of a standard handle into a no-snag. So you get the strength of the stainless steel tube with an aluminum insert that is epoxied in place that has the single hole like the no-snag handles. Working on some pictures. @ Bart...........Would love to see those also, which I believe I understand. As for my previous request, I couldn't quite visualize what RAGINCAJUN was describing, in his post. Maybe he'll post some pics also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted October 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I'd be interested in seeing that method! Used the normal mod for years and never had any issues! PIX!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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