Captainbob Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Just got a voicemail from AWOC today, and the Freestylist UL in Red that I ordered last week, will be made by Skyburner in the color I want, and will be ready in about 2 weeks. I read a post about this kite on another forum, from a new owner, and he raves about the kite. Here is a link to his post. http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=11326.msg99709#msg99709 Needless to say, I am very excited about getting this kite, which will be my 3rd kite designed by Jon Trennepohl , and if it flies as well as my Niknak and Widow NG, I will be one happy camper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunset Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I am also curious about the freestylist, and look forward to your comments after you fly it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainbob Posted June 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Found some good feedback posted on the Freestylist. http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=11353.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainbob Posted July 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 I spent the better part of his afternoon "trying" to fly my Prism Zephyr in the low winds at the field today. Every Time it launches and then slides back to the ground, I get a bit more bugged with the wind range on the Prism site for the Zephyr of 1-17 mph. Despite numerous playing with bridle adjustments, removing weight, removing front spreader, the only thing that will make this kite fly reliably in less than about 3-4 mph, in my opinion, is a hovercraft strapped to it's back. Anyway, I finally gave up, packed up, and walked back to my home, and leaning against the front door is a triangular box from Skyburner.. It has to be the Freestylist UL, I have been waiting for. I quickly unboxed it, and took it out of the bag it was in, which is a rugged canvas type bag like my Widow NG came in. I assembled it, which was a piece of cake. Wing tension is the one knot type, quick and easy, and even a separate instruction sheet on how to do the tension properly is included. First thing I noticed is that it has the same Quick bridle adjustment setup that my Widow NG has, which makes tuning the bridle out in the field for different wind conditions a piece of cake, since you can easily change bridle settings and if you don't like the new one, return to the previous setting in seconds. The Freestylist looks great, and is very well made, and it is in my favorite color which I ordered, "red". Ok enough of that, back out to the field . Now the wind specs for this kite are 2-12 mph. So now I am anxious to see how it is going to compare to the Zephyr I just finished struggling with. I set the kite up, hooked up a set of 90# 100 ft lines, propped it up for launch and took a quick pre-launch photo. The wind now was varying around 2-4 mph. I pulled the lines back, and the Freestylist shot straight off the ground like a rocket!!!! No babying it, no having to run back, it just took off and flew straight up like it was on rails. Spins, stalls, slides, dives, you name it, it just kept flying. Fly a straight line, as straight as an arrow, perfect square turns, nice slides from the edge of the window. I flew it for about 20 minutes straight, and it just floated and flew, floated and flew. No struggling, or having to run around the field to keep it up. This kite is a blast. I was thinking about when I got my Niknak, and the fact that my Prism 4D has been in the hangar ever since. Now I am wondering what I am going to do with the Zephyr, which I initially bought because of the "1 mph-17 mph" spec, now that I have the Freestylist UL , which I can already see is faster, much smoother, and doesn't need near as much wind as the Zephyr to fly smoothly. Once the wind reaches the top of the Freestylist UL range of around 10-12 mph, the Widow NG which I also love to fly will come out. After I landed, I realized that there was a handwritten note on top of the instruction sheet from Jon T that said he had placed a 10 gram weight in the tail, and I should remove it for "very light wind flying". All this time, that I was flying it, the weight was still in the tail, I had forgotten to remove it. My instant impression of this kite, is that it is like a giant Niknak as far as it's wind capability, but I have a feeling that it is much more trickable than the Niknak. Since I am not into tricks, this is just speculation on my part, but for precision type flying, from what I have seen so far, this kite is a winner. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etully Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 That is very cool. There is nothing better than a finely made kite. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 I'm glad you like your new Freestylist, Bob. Just imagine what you'd think of the Widow Maker... As far as the Zephyr, I don't know what's wrong with yours, I've flown 2 different Zephyrs (original production run) and they DO fly in the low winds as advertised. I've never flown the second generation Zephyr (like yours) and maybe things have changed with the kite, and they just kept the original promo material. One thing about Prism kites in general, they do have a heavy feel that you have to get used to. All of them except for the 4d, that is. It doesn't mean that they can't fly, they just have a different feel that requires getting used to. I wouldn't expect tricks out of the Zephyr in winds under 3mph, but I would expect that it can be flown. It's too bad you didn't get the 'Orca' color combo Zephyr, I'd offer to buy it from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basicbill Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 My instant impression of this kite, is that it is like a giant Niknak as far as it's wind capability, but I have a feeling that it is much more trickable than the Niknak. Since I am not into tricks, this is just speculation on my part, but for precision type flying, from what I have seen so far, this kite is a winner. Been waiting for your impressions. Great looking kite, too. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainbob Posted July 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 I'm glad you like your new Freestylist, Bob. Just imagine what you'd think of the Widow Maker... As far as the Zephyr, I don't know what's wrong with yours, I've flown 2 different Zephyrs (original production run) and they DO fly in the low winds as advertised. I've never flown the second generation Zephyr (like yours) and maybe things have changed with the kite, and they just kept the original promo material. One thing about Prism kites in general, they do have a heavy feel that you have to get used to. All of them except for the 4d, that is. It doesn't mean that they can't fly, they just have a different feel that requires getting used to. I wouldn't expect tricks out of the Zephyr in winds under 3mph, but I would expect that it can be flown. It's too bad you didn't get the 'Orca' color combo Zephyr, I'd offer to buy it from you. First of all, I think when you get to fly a Widow NG, you will really be surprised, and many very experienced fliers that have flown the Widow maker and the Widow NG have been surprised on how well the Widow NG flies, especially factoring in the cost. Now on the Zephyr, I have read post after post after post, that clearly state that the Zephyr is not an SUL or even a UL, it is a light standard, period. Haven't read one post yet, that raved about it's low wind performance. The difference, for me, between flying the Zephyr and flying the Freestylist UL, is like the difference in driving a Corvette compared to a Lincoln Navigator. The Zephyr feels heavy flying, and it also feels heavy just carrying it in the bag. Not sure what it weighs, because it seems that Prism doesn't want that shown on their website, but I'm betting it weighs alot more than other low wind kites. . The other issue with the Zephyr is the trailing edge flutter which acts like a speed brake any time the wind picks up, which I think is part of the problem. As soon as the kite achieves some decent speed, the TE starts buzzing, and the kite slows down. No, I haven't set the leech line, because of the reported problems with trailing edge wear, and the leech line ripping through the TE if the leech line is used. I have asked on the Prism facebook page about using the leech line, and received no response at all from anyone, users, or the company. I have read quite a few posts from people in the UK, where if you claim a product can do something , and it can't, you can get into legal trouble. They are all surprised that Prism hasn't been called out on their 1-17MPH claim, which is obviously not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainbob Posted July 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 My instant impression of this kite, is that it is like a giant Niknak as far as it's wind capability, but I have a feeling that it is much more trickable than the Niknak. Since I am not into tricks, this is just speculation on my part, but for precision type flying, from what I have seen so far, this kite is a winner. Been waiting for your impressions. Great looking kite, too. Bill I was blown away flying this kite today, just as I was when I first flew my Niknak after weeks and weeks on the 4D. It flies itself, basically. You just have to think about what you want it to do, and it does it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunset Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 I'm glad you like your new Freestylist, Bob. Just imagine what you'd think of the Widow Maker... As far as the Zephyr, I don't know what's wrong with yours, I've flown 2 different Zephyrs (original production run) and they DO fly in the low winds as advertised. I've never flown the second generation Zephyr (like yours) and maybe things have changed with the kite, and they just kept the original promo material. One thing about Prism kites in general, they do have a heavy feel that you have to get used to. All of them except for the 4d, that is. It doesn't mean that they can't fly, they just have a different feel that requires getting used to. I wouldn't expect tricks out of the Zephyr in winds under 3mph, but I would expect that it can be flown. It's too bad you didn't get the 'Orca' color combo Zephyr, I'd offer to buy it from you. First of all, I think when you get to fly a Widow NG, you will really be surprised, and many very experienced fliers that have flown the Widow maker and the Widow NG have been surprised on how well the Widow NG flies, especially factoring in the cost. Now on the Zephyr, I have read post after post after post, that clearly state that the Zephyr is not an SUL or even a UL, it is a light standard, period. Haven't read one post yet, that raved about it's low wind performance. The difference, for me, between flying the Zephyr and flying the Freestylist UL, is like the difference in driving a Corvette compared to a Lincoln Navigator. The Zephyr feels heavy flying, and it also feels heavy just carrying it in the bag. Not sure what it weighs, because it seems that Prism doesn't want that shown on their website, but I'm betting it weighs alot more than other low wind kites. . The other issue with the Zephyr is the trailing edge flutter which acts like a speed brake any time the wind picks up, which I think is part of the problem. As soon as the kite achieves some decent speed, the TE starts buzzing, and the kite slows down. No, I haven't set the leech line, because of the reported problems with trailing edge wear, and the leech line ripping through the TE if the leech line is used. I have asked on the Prism facebook page about using the leech line, and received no response at all from anyone, users, or the company. I have read quite a few posts from people in the UK, where if you claim a product can do something , and it can't, you can get into legal trouble. They are all surprised that Prism hasn't been called out on their 1-17MPH claim, which is obviously not true. I tension the leech line on my zephyr, and do not have any noise or braking from the trailing edge. I have not seen any wear on my trailing edge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 I'll be more than happy to purchase your Zephyr. I had one about three years ago and loved it. The only problem I recall is that it absolutely was hell to fly in "bumpy" wind, having a kind-of boogie/stall when gusty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 They are all surprised that Prism hasn't been called out on their 1-17MPH claim, which is obviously not true. Round & round... as I have said, I have flown my Zephyr in those low winds. I know other people who can, too. This was a constant topic of debate when the Z first came out, too. I was actually questioning the lower wind range at the time, but after I followed the advice of more experienced fliers (remove the weight, the upper spreader, adjust the knots towards the nose, and fly on 50' lines (which were included with the original Z)) I was able to fly mine in SUL winds. It took effort, but all light wind flying does. No, the kite is not an SUL by any stretch, but it isn't claimed to be. You are not going to be able to just stand there & get the Z to fly in 1 mph winds. It is a light standard or UL (pretty much the same thing) that is robust enough to survive beginner or intermediate abuse. Unlike a true SUL kite. the Zephyr is easily trickable, and can also be flown in double digit winds without exploding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainbob Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 They are all surprised that Prism hasn't been called out on their 1-17MPH claim, which is obviously not true. Round & round... as I have said, I have flown my Zephyr in those low winds. I know other people who can, too. This was a constant topic of debate when the Z first came out, too. I was actually questioning the lower wind range at the time, but after I followed the advice of more experienced fliers (remove the weight, the upper spreader, adjust the knots towards the nose, and fly on 50' lines (which were included with the original Z)) I was able to fly mine in SUL winds. It took effort, but all light wind flying does. No, the kite is not an SUL by any stretch, but it isn't claimed to be. You are not going to be able to just stand there & get the Z to fly in 1 mph winds. It is a light standard or UL (pretty much the same thing) that is robust enough to survive beginner or intermediate abuse. Unlike a true SUL kite. the Zephyr is easily trickable, and can also be flown in double digit winds without exploding. Difference between a real UL kite like my new Freestylist UL and the present day Zephyr is like the difference between a standard sail Rev and a Mid Vent Rev. Where the Freestylist flies without effort, with weight in, spreader in, 65' 90# lines, the Zephyr struggles to stay aloft with the weight out, bridal adjusted 3/4" above the low wind knot ( per Mark Reed) and front spreader removed in the exact same wind. ( flew them back to back last week) The wind specs on the Freestylist UL are 2-12 mph. Zephyr wind specs, are 1-17mph... Prism needs to take a look at the Freestylist UL, and either change the advertised specs on the Zephyr to something more realistic, or fix it so it flies in that range. I think a more realistic range for the Zephyr would be 3 or 4 to 17. By the way, I have googled this topic and read many forum posts on the Zephyr, and it is almost always referred to by other people that have flown it as a "light standard kite" . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Well, apples & oranges, I guess. If you look into the Prism forum, around 2007-2008, you will find a lot of information about the Zephyr, and discussions about the bottom end. Probably the biggest difference in opinion here is that we're not comparing the same kind of wind. 1 mph at the beach is different than 1 mph inland. Is the Skyburner a better kite ? Of course it is. Prism builds kites for the masses, and Skyburner custom builds kites here in the states for a few dozen people a year. I would certainly choose a Skyburner over a Prism any day. But... the stated Prism wind range is technically accurate. Just because it's more difficult doesn't mean it can't be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainbob Posted July 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Guess Devin likes the Freestylist UL too. http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=11353.msg100710#msg100710 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I sure would like to see a video of him flying one. His videos have convinced me to buy more than one Skyburner ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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