BobL

@jsc2501 i'm going to take both for now but i'll consider you next in line if you want.

that would be awesome John. let me know when you're back.

along with Skyburner's Widow Maker i'd like to add R-Sky's Nirvana and pretty much any other kites that were game changers or might be considered "desert island kites". if you have a kite that fits that description and want to get it back out there let me know.

wow, 3 at a time! you're gonna fit right in here. welcome to the forum, from another newbie. let us know how they flew.

SKD kites are pretty stunning but cost an arm and a Lam...hah! that cracked me up yeah, you probly have the 2nd best wind situation on this forum, 1st being someone on the pacific coast...me? i think we had winds over 4mph maybe twice in december, not much better in november...who knew? i didnt pay much attention to the winds til kiting came along...now im a slave to the wind. i try to fly 3 or 4 times a week for a few hours maybe every day if nothing else is happening and i usually have a list of things to work on (in my head). like you ive got a pretty good quiver to choose from starting with the Echo, the ATM, the Zephyr, the E3, the Hydra and back to the E3 for 18 to 25mph. sounds pretty good, right? noooo ive been mostly flying the Echo in 2 to 4mph for day after day unless i drive a couple hours to the coast ($50 well spent). funny thing is when i do get those rare 10 to 20 minute gigs on a real trick kite the tricks that are pent up in my Echo muscle memory just come boiling out...im like what the f#$%! whered that come from? i uusually have the Atm hooked up and waiting on 50x50s i like the wind range and general toughness of the 7' Superfly but also thought the Supernova would fill a gap for me being slower, more stable, replacing the Hypnotist i gave away...well enough of this rant, im going flying. thanks for sharing

nice review, you can hardly say too much for my taste plus im looking at the supernova pretty hard right now and the superfly...i agree great bargains and i have yet to buy a new kite this year heh heh.one thing about that benson website, they make their kites look like new cars in a showroom. i suppose you have a kite buffing rag on hand for emergencies while you fly loll or a butler. keep it up Ted, good stuff

hey Breezin, happy new year etc etc how is that Superfly treating you? youve had it a month or so...hopefully theres been good wind for you. what can you say about it so far? ive read that it can get pretty deep in the turtle, and also that its pretty sensitive to inputs rather than yank and spank. your thoughts/experience would be appreciated. after looking at the pics on the website it appears to be a very well finished kite and at a very good price...is there a catch? high shipping?

new updated ISO/WTB : Skyburner Widow Maker std,pro,etc R-Sky Nirvana etc if its ok with the admin, i'm open to suggestions

hi Parasko, welcome to Kitelife My first kite last summer was a Nexus, my wife's a Jazz. both good kites to learn on. The Jazz would probly be my choice for kids...a little slower with a forgiving fiberglass frame and 85' of (relatively) stretchier polyester line than the Nexus which comes with a carbon fiber frame and 65' of more sensitive dyneema line...the length and type of line has an effect on how fast the kite turns and generally responds: shorter lines will tend to make a kite seem faster, dont know why they send the Nexus out with 65'. anyway, polyester lines (ok) are cheaper and stretchier slowing the signals to and from the kite, Dyneema line (better) and Spectra line (best) are used by experienced fliers. When my wife tried the Nexus early in her learning curve it was noticeably fast for her and she stuck with the Jazz. Tails would help to make the kite more docile but require a bit more breeze to fly. one thing to be aware of is Prism recommends 13 to 14 as minimum age for their kites so you should plan on starting them out with you backing them up, literally. You said you were a novice...can you fly these kites? Maybe unpack one of them and teach yourself to fly before Xmas! There are some good videos on Youtube that will get you started, good luck let us know how it goes. BobL

View Advert ISO/WTB Skyburner Widow Maker looking for a Widow Maker in good condition, open to colors and models Advertiser BobL Date 12/09/2019 Price -$0.01 Category Kites (Dual Line) Brand Model UPDATE: FOUND!

@ Zuul: have you flown the kite much? i'm curious about how it flies on longer lines, say 50 - 80' and of course the wind range... having another 6" of wingspan over the Echo and another 3/4 of an ounce in mass puts it between the Echo and Pro Dancer in size (96" by 5oz). i just got into kites this summer so i dont have much info to offer you...we got some pretty knowledgeable folks hereabouts that may chime in. a couple days ago i was on a beach on the Columbia river hoping to get my new ATM SUL in the air and no go...my only trick was to get it up about 20' and try to get it back down ready for another launch...better than nothing...next to it i had the Echo hooked up and could get it up to about 50', make a turn and get it back to a 2 pt landing. it was one of those calm, sunny fall days where you could hear a dog bark a mile away. i started tweaking the Echo bridle and damned if i didnt get another 1/2 mile on the low end! then a 4 to 5 mph breeze came up and i was as busy as a one-armed paperhanger with those 2 kites! yesterday the wind was even less...and so it goes

seems to be in that class of indoor/outdoor kites like the Kaiju,4D and Echo...have you got any specs on it? i saw that Level One did a remake just for outdoor flying calling it the Amazing Matrix, made it stiffer and probly heavier, both seem to fly well. is it for sale? posting videos is like axeling...once you figure it out you cant stop

what decided you on the superfly versus the supernova or deepspace? and do you really expect us to take seriously last kite for a long time? oh wait, "along time" is how you spelled it...very clever https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eizokhqbf-w

@ Exult: i was surprised too, those were the first 4D videos i 'd seen at the time...very impressive, and the prodancer videos as well,,, i've watched JB's several times, trying to learn how to get a kite fired up like he does (is that what he means by whump?) man, so much to learn/look forward to. like you said Breezin, the 4D could satisfy more than 1 mindset...no need for criticism on my part. if i can post another vid...

hey success but thats not the right post...this is...

you're right, of course the 4D did kinda get a raw deal in my oversimplification and i've spent some time this morning as penance looking for vids of the 4D tricking...found one pretty good one filmed on Kite Hill in Seattle. kind of a coincidence that the pilot was Tom Paterson...i think the same one from my quotes yesterday reviewing the ATM SUL...life is funny...stuff like that. i'm going to try to upload the vid, something i've been struggling with here at Kitelife...could use a little advice if its no trouble. my only real beef with the 4D is the small size, i just like bigger kites right now. just bought a new one- ATM SUL in white gray and black, from Lam Hoac himself, his last one he said. i've met the nicest people in kiting and Lam is one of them...invited me to come up to Vancouver to fly with him. i will def be doing that even tho its a 5 hour trip...one of my sons lives an hour south of Lam.

i wholeheartedly agree with you on Lons choice.. i would jump at a chance for a classic like the Shadow...i would guess hes looking at a used one...or maybe theres an old dusty one behind the counter at some circus/juggling/ kite store in northern canada. we'll have to wait to hear how the story ends...in the meantime i found some good thoughts in a kite review on the ATM SUL over at kiteclique. its a long review so i'll just quote the general stuff that applies to all kites: Sky Sport Design "ATM" SUL Review by Tom Paterson ..."so how low does it go? I'm going to say low enough, but folks dont seem to like that answer. For sure i can fly a 3oz [actually 2 1/2 oz] kite like the 4D in lower winds, but youre going to do nothing but fly- as in no-real-tricks. the atm sul gives the full-on trick repertoire in winds from 3-12mph. you can fly lower with a bit more effort and go higher than 12 if pressed"... i'm interrupting here to emphasize "full-on trick repertoire experience" who doesn't want that?! i'm sure any kite that delivers that at 3-12mph will be forgiven if at 0-2 mph "its not quite what i hoped for". he goes on: ..."is 2-3mph low enoughfor a SUL? for me, i'll always take the trade of having a fully capable SUL and have to work a little harder at the lower end, so i'd say yes because i think maintaining tricks is the right compromise." for some of you more experienced fliers this info may seem obvious but for me its brand new...these 3 levels of low wind kites: 4Dish (pronounced for-d-ish), meaning flies-no-tricks), prodancerish, meaning flies- some- tricks and atmish, meaning flies-all-tricks each separated by another mph of wind is a big help...for christmas my wife will prob get a prodancer in pink while i'll prob get an atm in sul colors

a lot of good info in the "Favorite SUL" post up above...if you're like a lot of newbies, myself included you are mainly concerned with learning to fly, trick, and now keep flying at all times, i dont know about you but i like bigger kites for now and also less expensive trainers. but i will eventually get myself trained and start filling up my A Bag...i bought an ITW Echo thats about as light a kite as possible and still seem like a substatial kite at 6' and 4 oz. its nice on 80' of 50lb...probly need about 3-5 mph to really get the fun started...ive had it up to maybe 8mph at which time i get a prism zephyr going and later the big brother of the Echo, the Hydra. some days it goes in reverse order...occasionally it starts with the zephyr and goes both up and down. its not unusual to have multiple kites staked wherever they stopped flying. luckily i'm flying alone unless my wife is able to fly, then it can be a real cluster****, pardon my french. the HQ Shadow has a following so its probly a good kite. at 6oz and a 82" wing span you can kind of see where it fits in...its rated for 2-12mph...sounds handy even useful...as you can see i'm running out of real info so i'll finish with the kite review that sold me on the Echo, and i quote: "NOT QUITE WHAT I HOPED" "I was hoping for a kite that would fly in lighter winds than my Prism 4d and my Prodancer SUL. This wont but it is more stable than my 4d, spins better and does spin stalls better. it is stiffer and has more mass thus allowing it to trick sort of kind of. it actually needs about 3-4 mph similar to the prodancer in order for you to not run around significantly while the 4d will fly pretty well in 1-2mph winds." review by Steve Olson 3/29/2017 i dont know who Steve is but i kind of hear the ring of truth to his post. he already has the 4d and Prodancer, kind of knocks the 4d for its lightness but praises it for low wind ability...obviously he's looking for a kite that feels as good as the Prodancer but flys in lower winds...i wish he had compared the Echo to the Prodancer in terms of flying quality...anyway he gave it 4 out of 5 stars. at $139 i got the Echo and i love it right off the bat but, Steve Olson, you sold me on the Prodancer...it will join my Zephyr, E3 and Hydra in the A bag. good luck Lon, remember you only have too many kites when you have one you dont like BobL

i thought i should let yall know what happened with the widow maker over in germany: it turns out the shipping to here is about $180, so one kite for the price of two was a no go. i'm still going to post a wtb/iso advert for a widow maker here, just need to find some instructions on how to do it. i'm mostly stuck on inserting a pic off the web which is required here. breezin you must have about the best setup there is for the flying you want to do, short of living on the coast... a rattlesnake or black widow maybe but pretty sweet. just for comparison, my wife and i waded through 50 yds of miscellaneous muck to get out to my spit of sand in the columbia river. once there the flying was excellent...10mph at 2:30 tapering to 6mph at 4:30 at which time the sun went down. we both learned some new stuff so it was def worthwhile sorry for how chopped up this turned out...im a newby

thanks rob, good to know,breezin did say it was his doing...are the apa's the rod/tube connecters, like spreaders to leading edges, stand-offs, etc? i've been watching WM videos and liking the kite more and more...seems like a kite you hang on to. is the spyder graphic from a special edition? on monday im going talk to ups about international shipping...if its a go i might bone up on my german skills and make an offer to the guy. i'm not too big on the color but the condition looks good. speaking of colors, have you got some picked out for your ticca?

ho hum another windless day winds 0 gusting to 2. not even the echo likes that. i took some 50lb line scraps that are about 35' and sleeved them for days like this but that gets boring fast plus i have to run around like a little kid towing his little kite...undignified,lol Breezin i dont think i'm catching up to you too fast in these low winds, you got nothing to worry about. btw, my oldest son lives near Aurora...if and when we're out that way i'll look you up and we'll kill some snakes and spiders with you. common spiders and garter snakes is about it around here. same goes for you if you ever get to long beach washington-international kite festival on another subject, whats up with the widow maker and apas? i think i read something like that on one of RobB's posts... do the flying lines/leaders rub on them? since i'm looking for a WM. i probly should get to know the weaknesses and on another subject: icouldn't find any technical info on Lam kites...that vip II gravity looked stiffer/heavier then the echo when he was flying indoors...looked pretty cool tho, nice graphics and finally, the german guy knocked off another 10 euros on his wm...sprechen sie deutsch? anyone? Bob

thanks guys @matthijs1973 , RobB , Breezin: so far i have been able to go to the post and figure out he wants $185 including shipping...probly europe...not sure if the kite pictured is the one for sale or not. "und hier fotos von der spinne" translates to "here are photos of the spider" i guess thats his affectionate name for his widowmaker... a german guy who names his kites...sounds familiar. not sure where to go from here...register for the german forum i guess...BUT im gonna play this relaxed and cool (finding my WM, that is) not wide eyed and stammering like my previous kite purchases and then pacing the floor like an expectant father till i have it in hand...no, relaxed and cool this time... i remember when i found my zephyr in the closeout bin at prism.com...$150 with slight blems and fell over myself trying to get it ordered before it was gone...the next day they were gone. that put me on the hunt for a quantum pro and an e3...havent found a new Qpro yet but got the E3 brand new from some retailer for $150 on closeout... picked up 2 hydras at half price and still kicking myself for not getting a couple of Kymeras while they were around. the advice by several members here to newbies was to fill voids in your quiver in order to fly in all winds...that resulted in 2 Echos...that brings us to the present...i want a WM...im probly gonna get one sooner or later but im pretty well set to just spend some time flying and make it to the next level...as JB has said, to fly with intent. enough rambling the wind is picking up fair winds my friends Bob

thanks Rob i'll figure out how to post adverts and start looking for a WM. as for the Ticca i think i'll wait on the reviews before i pull the trigger...even then it comes down to Breezin's original question...is the Ticca that much different from a Mongoose? with 6 months and 10 kites into this hoby i have nothing to be ashamed of in terms of excess...just need to be a little more picky, hence the WM. bob

@ Breezin yeah that totally makes sense...life is good... the wind?...not so much here about 2-3 with gusts to 6 that just goes to show i needed that Echo. even got it do a few axels, slides and turtles yesterday while nothing else would stay up. usually after an hour or so on the echo i can get the Zephyr up and then ease into the E3 or Hydra. youre lucky to have your flying field at home, my closest is about 20 minutes away - got the echo all asembled in the back seat of the truck with 80' of 50lb attached - could be flying in about 21 minutes lol...yeah, life is good. thanks for the reply, Breezin, always appreciated, @RobB nice flying Rob thats just how i fly (but without the tricks, lol) your style plus the music you add is just right...so many trick videos look like flying on two pots of coffee or worse, no disrespect to anyone meant, just a diferent style. thanks for the advice on the Widow Maker. would there be any unsold ones in stock anywhere? whats the going price? thanks much appreciated bob