BobL

have you looked at the spec page for the challenger at oskusa's website? seems like they put the right stuff in and on the kites, other than that i dont know much about them. also found a post here in General Sport Kite > OSK Challenger by Mikelp3586

funny i was just thinking about an older, overweight man with a bad back... then i turned away from the bathroom mirror and turned off the light, and now here i am trying to answer your questions...probly need more info about your back and your skills with kites to say much more...generally ultralight kites will pull less if the back is an issue and expensive kites are more fun to fly if budget is not an issue.

i'm no expert but i have a similar but not as serious issue with an ultralight. Widow Maker. in a turtle i have to move back probly 15' to keep the lines from getting too slack. i havent thought much about it since i can stay ahead of it but im thinking maybe the weight of your lines overpowers the weight of the kite. try something like 50' of 50lb line to see if it helps...if the lines youre using are already that light then im stumped (for now)

just ordered a pair of Ticas, should get them in a month, i hope. i chose a simple color scheme to sort of match my other pair of Skyburners, but also to mimic the native birds, mainly eagles and vultures.

wellcome to the forum Andy, its a great place to learn and grow, been at it myself for a year. ive also got a few Prisms , (none that i would part with right now) i'm a big fan of the E3 and Zephyr and fly them often. good luck in your flying and collecting.

great choice Blue, i'm looking forward to hearing about your Mamba, from what ive read its one of the best. its definitely on my list of kites to get...in the mean time my wife, 4 sons and 9 grandchildren are all eyeballing my A-bag so im committed to putting together a B-bag, hence the Hydras. if i ever find a real Hydra made by Focus Kites (Paul DeBakker) it will go in the A-bag. words of wisdom, Exult, bonding with a kite might be more rare than we think...best to hang on to them and try again later... khsidekick: i'm just north of you in Longview, wa...hope to get down your way this summer (RV-trailering) maybe meet up at WSIKF if they have it this year mebeatee, i'd like to hear more about the Mamba and BMK/Aerie kites

welcome to the forum Carbon Crusher we recently had a similar conversation with ackack in Sport Kites/General Sport Kite/ "which stunt kite for second kite?" i think hes going to really like his new Into The Wind/ Hydra...very good buy right now for $112.50. check it out at Into The Wind item #7231 there should be a you tube vid of the hydra linked with ackack's post..i have 3 of them myself. good luck.

I've been flying the Hydra since last summer and have accumulated 3 of them so far. the only negative thing I have to say is there are only 2 colors. the shaking/pulsing sensation is something i notice when the wind is gusting or choppy. otherwise its a smooth flyer. if you're flying with the nose back on the 2nd knot its more sensitive in higher winds. so fly with caution if the wind is in the teens till you get to know the kite. I recently had to replace the female side of the lower spreader. (it had been cracked and was being flown with black electricians tape around the crack at the center T end for quite a while). i have some kites that use Sky Shark rods so i replaced the cracked Dynamics DT15 with a Sky Shark 3PT that i had on hand (one side only) and went flying. couldnt tell any difference. however there is a difference in outside diameter between the tubes, the Shark being a little smaller. to make up for that, i wrap a little black tape around the end at the leading edge connecter so it fits snugly. i also make a practice of wrapping the female end at the center T just in case- just one crack so far and one upper spreader i stepped on otherwise the Hydra is pretty tough. If memory serves, A Wind Of Change had the Dynamic rods in stock; Kites And Fun Things has (actually makes) Sky Shark tubes, and Into The Wind has the main component the Hydra good luck Conware 717 dont be a stranger kite flying is lonely lol

thanks TubaKite. i am looking for an ATM by Lam Hoac preferably the SUL but they have just about become extinct thats why im also looking for a silverfox 2.2 because of Lam Hoac's work on that family of kites. the Silverfox 2.5 vented is another kite that interests me because of the wind range you mentioned, 3-30. would you mind describing how it flies? all i know is what ive read online...they seem to have some issues...Theresa at the Kite Shoppe speaks well of them.

found this on youtube. good view of both the flyer and the kite simultaneously with good separation between individual tricks and then plenty of repitition. hes flying an HQ maestro II on short lines like 50', and about 80' in segments. this 90" kite has some unspecified modifications (pimp by paw)? he spends the 1st 5 minutes practicing snap stalls and controlling the kite in a stall, then gets into more advanced tricks. enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR3jDc1npMg

thanks for filling me in mebeatee, i had no idea the pd came in sul. ul, standard, and vented... the sul is the only one around and still selling since ive been flying. when you said you had a PD vented i assumed it was a PD sul vented...thats what blew my mind. yup starting out as a rookie in a new sport keeps you humble.

hey ackack, glad to hear you got the Hydra, you wont regret it. im excited someone took my advice lol. i think you just promoted me to intermediate level. this is a Focus/Hydra which Into The Wind got the right to copy and sell not sure if the ITW/Hydra differs from the original.

a vented Pro Dancer? how did that work out? and how did it come to be vented? wow you blew my mind getting back to ackacks problem, i think its safe to say there are standards out there in his budget that beat a Hypnotist. maybe a Widow NG, or the Magnum both by Premier ready to fly for less than $200. is the SF 2.5 the one Lam Hoac designed?

i thought about a vented kite for ackack but the two im a little familiar with, the Deep Space V from Benson and the Silver Fox Vented from Flying Wings (?) both say 8 mph for their starting wind range...add another 2 mph for regular flyers and now ackack is stuck flying in 10+ winds regardless of the weather or where he flys. does anyone know of vented kites with a lower wind range? im kind of interested myself.

hi ackack, welcome to the forum. i started a year ago with a quantum and then moved up to the hypnotist. in answer to your question yes the two are pretty similar...if you want a kite with a much higher skill ceiling youll need to move up to kites with higher tech frames for light weight/stiffness, . the quantum/hypnotist are a little too limber for quick inputs and quick response. it wouldnt be long before you wanted to move up again...i did...i noticed some good deals on discontinued prism kites while i was still a novice and bought an ultralight zephyr and a standard E3, both another step up from the hypnotist. these 2 kites are about all i need to move up (slowly) to intermediate level except for two things: low wind where i live, and i just love kites. typically the wind around here ranges from calm to 4 or 5 mph for days if not weeks so i have picked up a few kites to cover the low range.. back to your situation; a standard with a wind range of say 3 to 18 should do. once you get to the teens its tough to do slack line tricks anyway. if your usual flying fields have a lot of 10 to 15+ winds you will want to look around for some lower wind spots too. your best buy for a really good kite is an Into the Wind Hydra, a 7' 5" $225 kite for half price...thats $112.50 (dont wait too long if you want one its being closed out) the used market for higher end kites is a great way to go. i might be putting my foot in it but i bet one of the members here would part with a great kite for a fair price to help you out. good luck on whichever way you go.

@DeltaLover75: you came to the right place to address all things kite related and you've been given good general advice...but to really help you we should know which kite you are flying and a bit about your locations where you fly... as to buying a lower wind kite, most of us would say what are you waiting for? you describe yourself as"not giving up", now let us help you to "pursue this hoby" i know what you mean by frustration trying to learn through internet videos...those are experts with the best kites for the trick they are doing at a place where the weather is perfect for the trick they are doing and so on. add to that by the time you get out to your flying field the info is gone from your head. learning from another kiter, possibly with his kites is probly the fastest way. if your skills are average you could maybe learn a trick in a session or 2 and go on to practice it from there. a couple of websites that have helped me are not videos at all but instead written descriptions of tricks and simple instructions. i copy a paragraph or so for each trick i'm going to attempt and take it to the field with me so i can refer to it as i practice. it works great...since i switched to this method ive learned several new tricks in a few months. now i can go back to youtube, watch a video of a trick that i can at least complete (although tying tricks together is another trick) and then look at how the experts hold their hands, move around, and so on. on the subject of skipping the basics and moving on to tricks i would say that its much more fun learning the basics as i practice the tricks...all the basics are there in the tricks after all. http://web.archive.org/web/20100827005812/http://seek2know.org.uk/kites/pjkites/kites%20notes%20compressed.pdf this url above will take you to Peter Massey's kite book skip to chapter 5 to learn the "easy-peasy" axel method http://web.archive.org/web/20131012053815/http://www.idemployee.id.tue.nl/p.j.f.peters/kites/basics/alphaidx.frm.html this url above will take you to the trick index good luck

its been almost 2 weeks since i started this topic. at that time the number of confirmed cases in my home county- Cowlitz county, Washington was 2, it has since risen to 16... seems manageable...unless it doubled to 4 and then to 8...if it rises to 32 and keeps doubling we're in trouble. we need to flatten the curve as the experts say. the website that windwarrior posted says the virus can spread 27 feet instead of the 6 we're using for social distancing. holyschmoly guys lets be safer out there.

hows everyone doing ? the good news...being retired and a kiteflyer = social distancing ...i met another kiteflyer a week or so ago and it turned out we knew a few people but his passion right now is the yacht club nearby...we parted with a handshake and both did a DOH! move and burst out laughing. old habits die hard...gotta go back to fist bumping i guess... seriously though i'd like to hear what others are saying take care Bob

try the Kite Shoppe ask for Theresa, good people 360-904-1424

this post reminds me of last fall when about a dozen local fliers met at Vista Park on the Columbia River, located halfway on the drive from Portland/Vancouver to Long Beach...in retrospect we should have just gone on to Long Beach where its almost always flyable instead of standing around watching a single one liner trying to stay up. one of the guys had a wind meter which being a newbie was fascinating to me...anyway as we stood there with our backs to the wind we saw the readout rising and falling from about 1mph which i could just begin to feel on the back of my neck to about 2mph which i could definitely feel. well i took off to get my Zephyr which as everybody knows will fly at 1mph but thats another story. i learned 2 lessons that day...what unflyable/barely flyable feels like and add some kentuckey windage to a kites low wind range. nowadays when i get to a flying spot i stand with my back to the wind and its like being back at Vista Park...then i pull out my wind meter cuz im a gear guy.

Widow Maker Pros UL on the right

i couldnt agree more...due to the low winds i usually have to fly in, probly 1-4 mph, having a full size trickster in the Widow Maker UL Pro is awesome. it came with its big brother, a STD which flies down to 4 mph, the UL down to 2.5 mph. i bought them this winter from John Barresi. i first got interested in the Widow Maker when RobB mentioned it as his "desert island kite" , if the island is too windy i'll take the Standard. both kites are great trackers, fast turning, a hint of understeer, and full of tricks.

well robot-engineer, what did you end up getting? a lot of good suggestions were given...sadly i have none of them.

thats a good looking kite Lon, are those stock or custom colors? and by all means get out and fly, cant wait to hear your impressions.

same kite?