John Barresi Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 In 1987, Don Tabor from Top Of The Line Kites filed this patent on a dual line controllable sport kite... http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US04736914__ Can you imagine where we'd be today if he still held the patent and companies had to pay royalties on portions of their kite designs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windofchange Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Could you imagine where he would be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wing Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Can you imagine where we'd be today if he still held the patent and companies had to pay royalties on portions of their kite designs? Then you might have seen a situation like this: [Peter Chilvers as a 12 year old English boy on Hayling Island on the south coast of England, was the first person to produce a board with a sail. This board formed the basis for modern windsurfers. Chilvers has successfully won the patent for the windsurfer in the UK, Europe, Canada and America. Other worldwide patents are still being contested. The history of windsurfing, and its ultimate inventor are a source of much conjecture in the windsurfing community. The courts recognise Chilvers as the father of windsurfing after successful legal action in 1980,83,85. See Windsurfing International Inc. v Tabur Marine (GB) Ltd. 1985 RPC 59. This case set a very significant precedent in Patent law in terms of Inventive step and non-obviousness. Invention of windsurfing has also been attributed and to 3 other inventors. Newman Darby is often incorrectly credited as the first man to conceive the idea of connecting a hand-held sail rig fastened with a universal joint to a floating platform for recreational use, in the early sixties. He published his design in August 1965 Popular Science magazine. Darby had organized Darby Industries, Inc. in 1964 to build what they called sailboards. However, Darby's boards were inefficient and did not enjoy significant popularity [1]. Jim Drake, a Californian aeronautical engineer and his friend Hoyle Schweitzer with his wife Diane Schweitzer commercially developed the windsurfer and made it commercially successful. Drake had designed a surfboard-like board with a triangular sail and wishbone booms, connected to the board via a universal joint, and Schweizter popularized the new sport. The details of the original designs are available in Drake's whitepaper on windsurfing. Also, the history of invention is discussed in this interview with Jim Drake. Drake recognizes he re-invented what Chilvers and Darby have conceived earlier. Drake and Schweitzer patented the invention in 1968. Schweitzer incorporated Windsurfing International for promoting the sport and managing the patent, and bought the rights from Drake in 1973. Windsurfing caught on in Europe, and local companies started manufacturing windsurfing equipment. In 1983 Schweitzer sued a Swiss board manufacturer Mistral for infringing on his patent, however Mistral won the case by bringing up prior art by Darby. Schweitzer had to reapply for a patent under severely limited terms, and finally it expired in 1987. Windsurfing has experienced a boom in the 1980s. Windsurfing became an Olympic sport in 1984, however, windsurfing was in a sharp decline in mid-1990s, as the equipment became more specialized, requiring more expertise to sail. Now the sport is experiencing a modest revival, as new beginner-friendly designs have become more readily available.] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsurfing And i might have had to actually build that plywood windsurfer from the plans i saw in the early 90's rather than work my way to advanced windsurfing, fine composite shortboards, some custom-made, and gear for the next ten years that i mostly obtained from windsurf swap meets and trades with dealers...modern shortboards are a long ways from the original 'floating platform with a sail'... (and returning to kiting in 2004 where i was able to build many fine open source sport kites from plans available on the net....which i doubt would exist if royalty payments were involved, as may not many fine commercial/custom kites) And btw i came back to kiting in 2004 with a TOTL Team Hawaiian that i got in the early 90's... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kite Shoppe Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Hello Wing! Welcome! Great history post. Thanks No more lurking now.....you've broke the ice......let's see some more posts It was nice to meet you in Ocean City. Are you going to Des Moines? Again, welcome! Theresa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wing Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Hello Wing!Welcome! Great history post. Thanks No more lurking now.....you've broke the ice......let's see some more posts It was nice to meet you in Ocean City. Are you going to Des Moines? Again, welcome! Theresa Hi Theresa Well see, i've made enough post about 'boats' on that 'other' forum I thought i might come over here and give it a try... Hope you enjoyed the post. Hmmmm i wasn't in Ocean City though which is ok. See when Lynn Adams then national racquetball champion came here and met me during an exhibition tournament....she said 'haven't we met before?' I so wanted to say yes Lynn, of course, don't you remember that night, but nooooooooo, instead i had to say no but i wish. I fly/build sport kites, fighters and fly dual/quad foils and a rev exp. I also need to finsh a rev 2 i got that has the top cut off. But my situation is such that i'm not able to travel to events. That's why my friendship with John Barresi exists. He fulfillls all my dreams re that. Looks like you guys/gurls have a great event coming up your way soon, hope you enjoy Theresa and nice to meet you here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exult Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Patents - how does it work (question intended to be non-rhetorical)? If a kite innovation is first mentioned in a forum somewhere e.g.. Is it then protected from being patented - permanently and everywhere - or can anyone (or entity), willing to spend enough time and money, patent it anyhow? Can a patent "easily" be invalidated if one can find it mentioned somewhere before it was erroneously granted? To my understanding (hearsay mostly or read about too long time ago - and no, no sources given) patents can be dirty business not working out well for over all evolution/development of product categories/technology or for the individual inventor (getting a patent might cost too much). In the best case it allows for a company to invest resources to develop a (for a limited time) protected product that otherwise wouldn't have been developed at the time. In uglier cases a patent can just be owned and not used to inhibit a competing technology if a company has invested a lot in another but similar technology. Two larger competing companies can also gather many patents as a way to settle score without necessarily going to a court. Judging from some examples little seems to be required (in terms of "height of innovation") for a patent. Long term, there are no indispensable events of innovation (my belief) - innovations/development is a process will spring from the context (technology maturity, a working economy and living conditions of those who can make make innovations) - sooner or later we would have had batteries without Alessandro Volta and we would certainly have mass produced cars without Henry Ford (I again believe). Another "What if" scenario: Where would we be if basic internet technology would have been (software/hardware/principles) patented? Would the technology today be mature/cheap enough host internet forums e.g.? (I am aware of that this, "What if..." (patents), is an old topic - but it tends to never go out of fashion) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daougie Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 patents are extremely complicated. I can give you an example. I used to make RC boats. We came up with several different ideas and applied for and received US and Canada patients. A rival company made and brought to market an exact copy of our design. They changed the materials in the layup of the hulls. The courts decision was this was a change of over 20% of our design so no violation of our patients. You have to cover everything possible in the wording of a patient. The best and most famous example of this is Goodyear, when they applied for a patent on the process for making rubber and products to be made of rubber they missed one product......tires!Sent from my SM-G920W8 using KiteLife mobile app 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelp3586 Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 @daugieSent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daougie Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Looks good Mike. what motor are you running in her? No turn Skeg?Sent from my SM-G920W8 using KiteLife mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelp3586 Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Looks good Mike. what motor are you running in her? No turn Skeg?Sent from my SM-G920W8 using KiteLife mobile app Mod zen 26 and no fin she turns fine! Sent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p23brian Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 14 hours ago, Mikelp3586 said: @daugie Sent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app I'm always amazed by the models that RC hobbyists build. Some of the boats and airplanes are just incredible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 12 hours ago, p23brian said: I'm always amazed by the models that RC hobbyists build. Some of the boats and airplanes are just incredible. I used to fly RC Gliders. People were always amazed when pilots would do a fly-by at more than 100mph with a plane that has no engine. Most were amazed that one could fly so long using only thermals to stay aloft. Some of the more serious planes had 10ft+ wingspans and were miniature smaller versions of the real thing. Many RC designs later became the real thing. A ton of fun and something you could actually do lying down on your back. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daougie Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Mod zen 26 and no fin she turns fine! Sent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app Just me, But I always ran one to lessen prop walk. Having some trouble uploading pictures tonight. I'll figure it out eventually and post a few pictures of the boats for you.Sent from my SM-G920W8 using KiteLife mobile app 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daougie Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Here you go Mike. From back in the day when I was part of Bandit Boats. this one powered by a 23cc gas engine. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevmort Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 @Daougie looks nice I built a Boston whaler when I was 14 like in this pic Sent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exult Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I take the liberty of returning to the topic to some extent by continuing to discuss kites and patents. I saw a research kite video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIZr3R5JnEs ) that touched on topics related to line phenomena like flow, weight/load of a really long line and waves along the line (actually it was only one click away on Youtube from Watty Spencers quad video). There the "line" or rather, more general, tether was given a foil-like cross section. This should give the tether much less drag even though the tether/line became much wider (now the reduced drag isn't something Revolutionary, streamlined stays have been around "for ages" and can be found between the wings on a biplane aircraft). The Youtube title, "20km High Kite Flying" seems to be fetched out of the blue not really having anything to do with the contents of the video. Being very picky, isn't the aerodynamical centre (=centre of lift?) drawn awfully far to the rear in the video? The leading edge of the foil was a long tube in the video. When seeing this I thought why not have all lines of a multi line kite going through this tube (give the inside of the tube a teflon coating or other low friction surface). At least for speed kites this could be something or possibly if you want to make the wind window larger for other kites. For such a simple idea to let the lines go through a long foil of almost the entire line length of a multi line kite, I'm sure that this thought is not original. After all, everything has been there for a long time: foils, kites and multi lines. (When coming up with this idea I'm standing on the shoulders of others - also in a wider aspect that I live such a life that I'm in a position to have an opportunity to think these thoughts). That someone somewhere has made such idea public in some way is also likely. Now, assume/pretend that no one discussed this idea in a sport kite context (or have someone already made life more difficult by "protecting" it?), would this post offer any kind of protection against any restriction on freedom of kite designers/builders/users/companies/thoughts (OK, "thoughts" is a bit indirect, but thoughts are shaped by activity, which can be limited by regulations)? Or is it so that this post just made things worse? - is it so that there is no protection and the idea is just there for the taking now? Are there any better ways of making ideas public so that they can't be patented etc... ? Would building an implementation (even a very poor one) and putting it on Youtube, Vimeo, Metacafe... (and try to make it as "searchable" as possible) be better than a post? Any other ways? B.t.w. trying to understand things or guessing where a certain thing/video/text/reasoning is heading often causes now thoughts to emerge. Use them for good stuff! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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