Indoor dual line tutorials

[John F]

Going to be starting indoor flying. It looks like I am the only one doing it in Colorado so I need help as usual. Are there any dual line indoor tutorials?

What are the first skills to learn?

What are the differences between outdoor and indoor?

What is the best line length to learn on. I have a Skyburner INak on the way?

Thanks

[ant man]

i learned on a quad line indoor rev and it didnt take but a day to figure out the tricks i went from slammin the kite on the floor to doing most of my outdoor tricks inside the gym i use has low celings so i use 15 foot lines and they work great if you want to know line length first look at the area youre flying in and that will tell you what length line you will need dual or quad line

[EBGB]

Hi John,

There aren't any tutorials that I'm aware of.

We'll have to put Scotty up to it at the next Windless. He teaches kids at schools, and has a well practiced method.

Probably start out on 10 foot or so lines. Shorter is generally easier, so I'd say 8 foot except that the INak is a fairly large kite to have that close to you.

Start by trying to fly circles around yourself, by leading with your arms.

By leading with your arms, you can practically stand in one place and just rotate and keep the kite moving.

Think in terms of being efficient and smooth with your movements. Hard pulls tend to waste energy as the kite flexes and dumps more air from the sail. Too soft of course and it just falls out of the air.

Up-and-overs are probably next. They're simpler than they seem. Just fly up! As the kite comes close to being overhead, backing up will no longer keep the kite in the air. You'll have to pull down with your arms to keep the kite powered up as it passes overhead. After it passes the zenith, you can turn around and start backing away from the kite again.

Some kites will glide nicely down the backside pretty much on their own. Some will need some input to keep the nose from going to high in the glide and stalling out.

Keep aware of your surroundings, and how close you are to the walls and such. Up-and-overs are a great way to keep from flying yourself into a corner, but you need to start them before your back is up against the wall.

Have fun with it! If you have a place you can fly regularly you'll get the hang of it pretty quick.

Then you have to think of how you're going to hook up with other indoor fliers. Just like outdoors, flying with others helps a lot.

Maybe make another trip out here during the Winter. Windless at Long Beach on Martin Luther King day is one of the better indoor flies.

[John F]

Thanks for the advice. I hope to go to the rec center for the first time tomorrow. The kite arrived last night, so I was able to get a few minutes on it this morning in the back yard. It is pretty neat how little it takes to fly this kite.

Would be nice to get out there for some of the indoor events but that is probably not in the cards for this year. I have started a recruiting campaign here in Colorado but so far no takers. I think indoor flying is a seeing is believing problem. If we could get some demos from competent flyers I am sure he interest would happen.

Hi John,

There aren't any tutorials that I'm aware of.

We'll have to put Scotty up to it at the next Windless. He teaches kids at schools, and has a well practiced method.

Probably start out on 10 foot or so lines. Shorter is generally easier, so I'd say 8 foot except that the INak is a fairly large kite to have that close to you.

Start by trying to fly circles around yourself, by leading with your arms.

By leading with your arms, you can practically stand in one place and just rotate and keep the kite moving.

Think in terms of being efficient and smooth with your movements. Hard pulls tend to waste energy as the kite flexes and dumps more air from the sail. Too soft of course and it just falls out of the air.

Up-and-overs are probably next. They're simpler than they seem. Just fly up! As the kite comes close to being overhead, backing up will no longer keep the kite in the air. You'll have to pull down with your arms to keep the kite powered up as it passes overhead. After it passes the zenith, you can turn around and start backing away from the kite again.

Some kites will glide nicely down the backside pretty much on their own. Some will need some input to keep the nose from going to high in the glide and stalling out.

Keep aware of your surroundings, and how close you are to the walls and such. Up-and-overs are a great way to keep from flying yourself into a corner, but you need to start them before your back is up against the wall.

Have fun with it! If you have a place you can fly regularly you'll get the hang of it pretty quick.

Then you have to think of how you're going to hook up with other indoor fliers. Just like outdoors, flying with others helps a lot.

Maybe make another trip out here during the Winter. Windless at Long Beach on Martin Luther King day is one of the better indoor flies.

[John Barresi]

John, think perpetual motion.

You're already a good light wind flier... Now, for indoor, keep your hands in front of your chest instead of pulling down past your hips.

[John F]

Got in 2 hours indoors and it was great. This indoor stuff can be a pretty good workout.

Was able to get the 360 and up and over to work. Then moved on to up and over into a 360 CW. That was OK then to UAO to 360 CCW and that was another story. I am very right handed and need to work on left handed control.

I think I am really going to enjoy this as it progresses.

What is a good way to lauch the kite? I seemed to have to jerk it into the air from its back. Is there a secret to a smooth launch.

[John Barresi]

Depending on your line length, there are a just couple of other ways to launch - aside from good old "off the wall", which some people prefer.

For a regular throw, hold the nose of the kite in your power hand (right vs left handed)... Push tail roughly straight out away from you, releasing the nose... If the angle of the toss is right, and you step back fairly quickly, the kite should float to the end of the lines, then "load up" just above the ground, facing up.

The dart (my favorite), is best broken down:

1. Hold your kite by the nose, so you are looking at the front (nose up) and the lines are clear (hanging from kite to hand, no snags).

2. Pull the nose towards you (tail away, belly down), and then continue that rotation until the nose is pointed away (on back, nose away).

3 Your lines should look like they are going over the front of the kite, around the back, and under the trailing edge before they reach your hands.

4. Now, holding the tail with your power hand, gripping with 2 or 3 fingers, like a dart, or paper airplane.

(inactive hand can be used to support the far end of the kite from underneath)

5. Again, imagine you're holding a dart or paper airplane with your power hand and let it fly... Not a push, a flick of the wrist and a little elbow.

If done correctly, the kite will sail out nose away, on it's back... Once it reaches the end of the lines, draw both hands back evenly and close together near the chest.

Once the kite hits the end of the lines and you draw back, it should appear to unroll 1/2 way and begin flying straight up or a little to the side.

(you might have to move back a little faster, or adjust the launch technique if the kite isn't reaching the end of the lines)

(also, experiment with multiple roll ups - I've done up to seven indoors)

I hope that made some sense.

[Bram]

I have a 30 page article with indoor tutorials. Unfortunately it's in Dutch and i don't have the time to translate it. Maybe in a few weeks.

The article can be found at www.flyingkites.nl (indoor)

[John F]

I have a 30 page article with indoor tutorials. Unfortunately it's in Dutch and i don't have the time to translate it. Maybe in a few weeks.

The article can be found at www.flyingkites.nl (indoor)

Bram

Thanks for the link. I lived near Utrecht for 9 months in 1992. I tried to learn Dutch but all my friend and associates kept talking English to me. It was a very pleasant experience there. We are still in contact with our friends.

I will try with my dictionary to use this.

Dank u wel

[John F]

I have a 30 page article with indoor tutorials. Unfortunately it's in Dutch and i don't have the time to translate it. Maybe in a few weeks.

The article can be found at www.flyingkites.nl (indoor)

Bram

Thanks for the link. I lived near Utrecht for 9 months in 1992. I tried to learn Dutch but all my friend and associates kept talking English to me. It was a very pleasant experience there. We are still in contact with our friends.

I will try with my dictionary to use this.

Dank u wel

Just started looking through the article and all I can say is WOW. I wish this were in english. This looks like a definitive work on indoor kiting. Probably worth translating and publishing.

[Bram]

A friend of mine wrote the article. He has been flying indoors for many years. He was the one who got me into indoor flying about a year ago. Now we fly a few hours every thursday evening.

Kites we fly are: Level One Amazing, Benson Innerspace, Drachenkiste Sweety, Buena Vista Feather

We have plans to work on some indoor tutorial movies. I hope we can make those this winter.

[John F]

A friend of mine wrote the article. He has been flying indoors for many years. He was the one who got me into indoor flying about a year ago. Now we fly a few hours every thursday evening.

Kites we fly are: Level One Amazing, Benson Innerspace, Drachenkiste Sweety, Buena Vista Feather

We have plans to work on some indoor tutorial movies. I hope we can make those this winter.

I ran the article through Babel Fish and spent last night trying to fill in the untranslated words and to adjust the grammer and colloquialisms. It is a little rough but I think it will be useable.

I look forward to the tutorials. This is one of the most spectacular aspects of kiting and the kite community. There is such a big willingness to share.

[The Kite Shoppe]

Cool! I look forward to seeing the tutorials

John, next time you're this way, remind me to bring the indoor bag! I'll share my Level One Amazing, Drachenkiste Sweety, Buena Vista Feather, iTrix, Dini, 1.8 and Wren with you

Wish you could be here for our Camas Indoor event in 2 weekends.

Have fun with the iNak!

T

[Bram]

It's such a shame that there are no more than 4 or 5 indoor flyers in the Netherlands. We try to get people interested by distibuting this article.

@thekiteshoppe : You fly the 1.8 (cavaliers?) indoors? I tried it but it was to heavy in my opinion.

[The Kite Shoppe]

It's such a shame that there are no more than 4 or 5 indoor flyers in the Netherlands. We try to get people interested by distibuting this article.

@thekiteshoppe : You fly the 1.8 (cavaliers?) indoors? I tried it but it was to heavy in my opinion.

Hi Bram, no not me...but I have seen others fly the CDC 1.8 indoors.

As for heavy....when we were at AKA Nationals, Wayne Fu got his QP SUL out and flew it indoors! I think somebody actually got it on video!

Next weekend we will have 2 and a half days in the gym

Theresa

[Bram]

I would love to see that video

We have a gym for 2 hours every thursday evening, it's very nice and not very expensive. So, we are very lucky.

[John F]

Depending on your line length, there are a just couple of other ways to launch - aside from good old "off the wall", which some people prefer.

For a regular throw, hold the nose of the kite in your power hand (right vs left handed)... Push tail roughly straight out away from you, releasing the nose... If the angle of the toss is right, and you step back fairly quickly, the kite should float to the end of the lines, then "load up" just above the ground, facing up.

The dart (my favorite), is best broken down:

1. Hold your kite by the nose, so you are looking at the front (nose up) and the lines are clear (hanging from kite to hand, no snags).

2. Pull the nose towards you (tail away, belly down), and then continue that rotation until the nose is pointed away (on back, nose away).

3 Your lines should look like they are going over the front of the kite, around the back, and under the trailing edge before they reach your hands.

4. Now, holding the tail with your power hand, gripping with 2 or 3 fingers, like a dart, or paper airplane.

(inactive hand can be used to support the far end of the kite from underneath)

5. Again, imagine you're holding a dart or paper airplane with your power hand and let it fly... Not a push, a flick of the wrist and a little elbow.

If done correctly, the kite will sail out nose away, on it's back... Once it reaches the end of the lines, draw both hands back evenly and close together near the chest.

Once the kite hits the end of the lines and you draw back, it should appear to unroll 1/2 way and begin flying straight up or a little to the side.

(you might have to move back a little faster, or adjust the launch technique if the kite isn't reaching the end of the lines)

(also, experiment with multiple roll ups - I've done up to seven indoors)

I hope that made some sense.

I was working on the dart today and was able to get the kite to fly to the end of the lines but not very sucessful in getting the kite to rotate on the pitch axis. It seems like the lines are riding too low on the leading edge. Is a yo yo stopper necessary to do this well or could I just build up the upper connector for the lines to catch on. Or is the problem just in my technique?

I might be putting too much input into the unwrap.

Found the easiest launch is to have the kite in a pancake on the floor and to pull one side to twist up and out to fly away. Have also done a few fade launches from the pancake. But my touch is not very consistent there yet.

I am having way too much fun. Looks like I will be able to get the gym 3 days each week. This retirement thing is really good stuff.

[John Barresi]

Sounds like you're on the right path John.

Yes, I generally lay the lines over the upper spreader connecters so that they stay high on the leading edge until the unroll... There isn't a lot of connector there mind you, just enough to hold it until the kite gets to the end of the lines.

[John F]

A friend of mine wrote the article. He has been flying indoors for many years. He was the one who got me into indoor flying about a year ago. Now we fly a few hours every thursday evening.

Kites we fly are: Level One Amazing, Benson Innerspace, Drachenkiste Sweety, Buena Vista Feather

We have plans to work on some indoor tutorial movies. I hope we can make those this winter.

Bram

I have a very amatuer translation of the article done with Babel Fish and a Berlitz engels nederlands Woordenboek. If you let me know where to send I will email it to you. It is in MS Word. I am getting a lot from the article even with the rough translation.

[John F]

The dart (my favorite), is best broken down:

1. Hold your kite by the nose, so you are looking at the front (nose up) and the lines are clear (hanging from kite to hand, no snags).

2. Pull the nose towards you (tail away, belly down), and then continue that rotation until the nose is pointed away (on back, nose away).

3 Your lines should look like they are going over the front of the kite, around the back, and under the trailing edge before they reach your hands.

4. Now, holding the tail with your power hand, gripping with 2 or 3 fingers, like a dart, or paper airplane.

(inactive hand can be used to support the far end of the kite from underneath)

5. Again, imagine you're holding a dart or paper airplane with your power hand and let it fly... Not a push, a flick of the wrist and a little elbow.

If done correctly, the kite will sail out nose away, on it's back... Once it reaches the end of the lines, draw both hands back evenly and close together near the chest.

Once the kite hits the end of the lines and you draw back, it should appear to unroll 1/2 way and begin flying straight up or a little to the side.

(you might have to move back a little faster, or adjust the launch technique if the kite isn't reaching the end of the lines)

(also, experiment with multiple roll ups - I've done up to seven indoors)

I hope that made some sense.

I have been playing with the dart and like it. But I noticed that it is a good way to get into a fade. Seems as if you just pull on one line when kite is away and it flat spins 180 and stepping back you can lock it into a fade. Learned that from an oops so I got two for the price of one. Now if I can just learn to pull the fade back for a catch I can really start boring people with dart spin fade pull catch dart and so on.

Indoor is cool. Liking more and more. Started getting 1/2 axels and now learning to control them and will move to cascade.

One thing I am learning is to pick slow music to fly to. That fast stuff will kill an old guy.

[John F]

The dart progresses. This is really a great throw. Today I started doing an extra wrap. The unwind is neat and what is really cool is since you are moving back as the kite unwinds it drops a little then when it hit the end it sort of jumps into the air. That should fit a piece of music. The next thing is to add a couple more wraps.

Everything indoors seems to be touch. Just the right input at the right time. It makes it pretty interesting.

I adjusted the bridge a little today and that made a difference. I noticed the kite was sitting back a little so I move the pull points about 1/4 inch closer to the nose. This seems to really help. I am able to move slower and seem to have better response from the kite on axle moves. I think it will help on the fade too.

I would appreciate any comments from you masters out there.

[mdilucca]

The dart progresses. This is really a great throw. Today I started doing an extra wrap. The unwind is neat and what is really cool is since you are moving back as the kite unwinds it drops a little then when it hit the end it sort of jumps into the air. That should fit a piece of music. The next thing is to add a couple more wraps.

Everything indoors seems to be touch. Just the right input at the right time. It makes it pretty interesting.

I adjusted the bridge a little today and that made a difference. I noticed the kite was sitting back a little so I move the pull points about 1/4 inch closer to the nose. This seems to really help. I am able to move slower and seem to have better response from the kite on axle moves. I think it will help on the fade too.

I would appreciate any comments from you masters out there.

Hey John, what kite are you flying indoors?

Cheers

Mario

[John F]

Hey John, what kite are you flying indoors?

Cheers

Mario

I am flying an INAK by Sky Burner.

[ant man]

nice kite a good trickster eazy to keep up too not so tail heavy like my 3d

[John Barresi]

Although I generally favor the iTrix or VIP for indoor dual line, the iNak impressed me with it's sail loading... Pull back, and the kite loads up very well, a trait common to Trennepohl's kites.