Tutorials

[Wayne Dowler]

Just looking to see if any others are benefiting from these tutorials, that John and everyone else involved, put together?? I've only had one chance to fly indoors since I've gotten an Indoor and the tutorials have come out, and can see how following them really solves some of the problems I've encountered!! OVERCONTROL!!! So easy to do when first starting out, not nearly as much input needed compared to outdoor!! TIGHT LINES!! Yes, it leads to more control, learned that the hard way!! So far the biggest thing I've learned is to slow the mind down!!! Think your way through things, watch how the kite responds and compare that to the tutorial, try something different if what you're doing isn't working!!! Don't be afraid to adjust your style, your setup, whatever, to get the desired results!! BUT AT LEAST TRY SOMETHING!!!! If I can see light at the end of the tunnel, ..............?

All comments gladly received!!!

[windpoacher]

Yes!! I think I have benefited, and will continue to benefit ,from the use of those tutorial's.

I haven't got a indoor kite, or even flown indoor's YET !!!

But I have been in True Zero wind, for at least 1 hour a day, for the last seven day's in a row.

And have been applying those skills, or lessons from the tutorial's!!!!!

I am having a hard time "SLOWING THE MIND", at the same time as, trying to learn , and practice, to get it QUICKER.

But it is coming along, well!!!! can't wait to get indoor's with an indoor kite!!!!!

Untill then I think working the B-Series in zero wind conditions , SHOULD , increase the learning curve for a actual indoor kite!! ??

Correct me if I am wrong!!!!!!!

YES "Tight line's" major benefit.........Alway's working on that....

My biggest focus, as of now "sail loading", and making my own power!!

I do see the light,.......And I hope it does not get so BRIGHT, that I miss or do not SEE something!!!!

What length line's , and handle's are you using, S.V.?

Thank's for this post ,.....since I have been working solely on this, for a week!!! practice, practice, practice .........

[Guru4tru]

Hey "SV",

What kind of indoor kite do you have and where do you fly it indoors, or are you outside no-winding it, like "windpoacher"?

"Slowing the Mind"...WOW...I'd be great at that then...my mind is really slow! And imagine Baloo!! heehee!

Keep It Up!

Duane

[Wayne Dowler]

I was able to get an older Indoor Rev in the R/W/B color scheme!!! It has the older "skinny" rods in it, but no wear at all that I can see!! It's like finding something buried or hidden, new but used, if ya get my drift!! I've only used it once, at an indoor soccer field, they let me in to try it when no one was there!! I had tried a newer Indoor Rev before, but I can't feel any noticeable difference in the way they handle, at least from my angle!! It came with the Indoor handles, boy are they light, and I bought a set of 10' x 90# lines for it!! So really my learning experience has just begun on this one!! Outside I feel OK about what I'm doing, inside it's a whole new gig!! That's why I asked about any other's experiences with the tutorials and their feedback!! They've already helped me, hoping they're helping others!!

windpoacher - someone else put it a different way!!! Instead of practice, practice, practice, it could/should be - play, play, play!!! Some things translate across from outdoor to indoor, but a lot is just more to learn!! It's a different animal altogether!! That makes it interesting for me, trying to learn something different!! Keeps my mind sharp, body working hard!! This was something I was interested in years ago, then I had a stroke and stuff fell to the wayside!! Now I'm finding out that I CAN DO THINGS, and that opens up a whole new world to try on!! WIND THERAPY!!!! It has worked for me!!!

YEEHAW!!!!

[windpoacher]

Indoor Soccer Field !!! ??? Sounds Nice!!!!!!............

I Like that Phrase alot better, "play, play ,play"...........It even sound's fun..........

Thank's...........Practice , almost sound's like work!!!!!!

God know's we all have enough work to do , already!!!!!!!!

WIND THERAPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gotta have it!..........................................................

Thank's........

[Guru4tru]

Hey...all this "Play, Play, Play" stuff sounds "Great" (and today I "Play, Play, Play"), but when I was learning how to fly the Revs. properly it wasn't all "Play, Play, Play" by any means...it was a lot of hard work at times....and there were times of great frustration and bordum. I had to self discipline myself to keep my mind on the task of what I was trying to learn. For those that haven't experiences that part of the learning curve, then I have to wonder about how good they might be at actually flying their Rev. Now I did mix my "Practice, Practice, Practice" time with "Play, Play, Play" time, or I probably would have given it up, but learning does take some "work"!

Keep It Up!

Duane

[windpoacher]

Hey...all this "Play, Play, Play" stuff sounds "Great" (and today I "Play, Play, Play"), but when I was learning how to fly the Revs. properly it wasn't all "Play, Play, Play" by any means...it was a lot of hard work at times....and there were times of great frustration and bordum. I had to self discipline myself to keep my mind on the task of what I was trying to learn. For those that haven't experiences that part of the learning curve, then I have to wonder about how good they might be at actually flying their Rev. Now I did mix my "Practice, Practice, Practice" time with "Play, Play, Play" time, or I probably would have given it up, but learning does take some "work"!

Keep It Up!

Duane

AWWWWEE!!!! Duane.........I Do think you are Right!!!!!!

But, I was trying to psyche, myself out, and make the work part SOUND a little more FUN.

It is work, work ,work--- practice, practice, practice, With a new name!!!!!.........HA HA !!! ............PSYCHE!!!

MAYBE, I need to quit messing around and get back to WORK !!!!!! ?????????????????

[Wayne Dowler]

Duane - it is work, but we don't have to look at it that way!! We're all trying to learn, why not make it fun, instead of "work"!!! If you enjoy flying, any new skill takes some work, but doesn't that end up adding to the fun?? Just trying to help with the attitude!!! I'm starting at almost ground zero on indoor, sure it's work, but so much fun and enjoyment when something is accomplished!! PLAY TIME!!!!

[Guru4tru]

Duane - it is work, but we don't have to look at it that way!! We're all trying to learn, why not make it fun, instead of "work"!!! If you enjoy flying, any new skill takes some work, but doesn't that end up adding to the fun?? Just trying to help with the attitude!!! I'm starting at almost ground zero on indoor, sure it's work, but so much fun and enjoyment when something is accomplished!! PLAY TIME!!!!

The thing that is so cool about the Rev. is that it is really a "Precision Instrument" that anyone can fly...with a lot of "play/work"! heehee! The rewards were there for any effort that I put into it. "Play" is "Play" and "Play" isn't usually rewarding, it's just fun..."Work" is "Work" but with the Rev. it come with "Great Personal Rewards". Today when I fly I have a lot of fun, but at the same time I keep reaping in the rewards for all my effort and work I've put into it!

I only make the distinction so that the newbie Rev. flyers realizes that if they find it frustration and difficult at times, as I did, there is nothing wrong with them or the kite...we all went through that part of the learning process and don't be discouraged, because that's normal! Just keep on keeping on and somehow it just "happens"!

You know there have been a lot of things that I got into in my life and many of them I found very discouraging. Either the product was mediocre and didn't quite live up to it's clams or it took a lifetime of work to learn it or you had to be rich or have some special talent or as I got older I couldn't do it anymore. (I used to do floor gymnastics...the last front flip landed me flat on my back and in bed for awhile...so much for that sport! heehee!)

But with the Rev. that's all different. With some time and effort anyone can do it, and do it well too, and it's not so easy that it doesn't have it's challenges and rewards...and it's a precision instrument that will not leave me wanting more then the kite can give...and once you "got it" it's "yours to keep"...like riding a bicycle...and as one grows older they don't have to give it up! Hell, look at Hedgewarden, and he's older then the wind! heehee!!

And (to the topic) where would us "Lone Rangers" be without the "Tutorials" and the support from Kitelife!!!

Keep It Up!

Duane

(I just got back from flying "Goldilocks", B-series STD gold, and we had some very "Rewarding Fun!" heehee!

[windpoacher]

Duane!!!!!! You make some very GOOD point's, WELL debated!!..........My prop's to you !!......... ..........

So then, we are all RIGHT!!!!!!!

YEAAAY!!!!!!!!...for the tutorials,

THANK'S to the, SUPPORT from KITELIFE...............

If their was not a soccer tourement, going on right now, I would be flying, and not posting!!!!!!!!!!!

So THANK YOU , Stroke Victim, and Duane, for the company.......

The tutorial's are excellent, and very benificial...........I URGE Everyone to check them out!!!!!!!!

..........P.S. say hello to "goldilock's" .for me thank's...........HA HA!!

[John Barresi]

Poacher, the loading techniques will translate somewhat to the Indoor Rev, but you'll find that the hand technique (input/pulling) changes quite a bit due to the different shape and handling between the outdoor and indoor models.

[windpoacher]

Poacher, the loading techniques will translate somewhat to the Indoor Rev, but you'll find that the hand technique (input/pulling) changes quite a bit due to the different shape and handling between the outdoor and indoor models.

In other word's zero wind / different kite, does not exactly replicate........indoor/ indoor kite flying....? hence, a totaly different animal as stroke victim put it!!!!!!!! correct?........

So then I will continue to watch the tutorial's, but save this information, for use with an actual INDOOR kite!!!!!! INdoor's!!

Thank's....... .The more Information the Better!!!!!!! can't get enough ...........................

[Reef Runner]

Thoughts from a "cruiser".............. .....................(Different strokes for different folks)

This is a very interesting topic, and let me begin by saying, that YES, I do applaud each and every tutorial - indoor - outdoor - mechanical - technical - whatever ! And it goes without saying, that Kitelife (JB) does an absolutely wonderful job, of breaking down, producing, and presenting, this interesting and somewhat challenging hobby of ours, into a simple, down-to-earth perspective, that most anyone can understand, and for this, I once again thank him, for all he does, for all of us.

However (IMHO), I feel that it is still quite possible, to have a tremendous amount of fun with kites, without getting too awfully serious, about this thing. I speak purely from a personal standpoint, as I know that many will disagree, but I have, and will continue to freely admit, to anyone that asks (Kitelife included), that I am NOT a trickster. Not by any means. I'm just a cruiser, and surely, there's got to be someone else out there, that isn't quite so serious, or maybe not? Anyway, before the quads grabbed my attention, I flew dualies, and it was the same with them. I enjoyed them immensely, as I do the revs now, but I don't take either too seriously. I go out, and I cruise the sky's (preferably while standing in the surf or sand), and as for that practice, practice, practice, vs. play, play, play, I'll choose "play" every time. When I go out to fly, my goal is simple, to enjoy the outdoors, to enjoy the sunshine, the sky, the wind, the clouds, and to just take it all in, while flying my kites. I could care less, if I ever do a trick, because as I mentioned, that's not "my" thing. I just want to enjoy flying my kites, without pressure to perform, and without judgment from others. When I fly, I just want to be able to let go, and soar, and if a trick happens, so be it. Only problem, I wouldn't recognize it, if it landed on my nose, but I'm surely not going to agonize over it, nor am I going to turn something that I do for pleasure, into work............

Now, no offense meant towards any of you workaholics, and I'll be the first to admit, that I applaud all of you, who "thrive on", and "succeed at", putting in the time and the energy, necessary to perfect your routines and goals, whatever they may be, but I think that I will spend my time "playing". We are all different, and as for myself, I have no aspirations to compete, and I have no plans to perform. I just want to enjoy flying my kites, and that's what I do. Don't take me wrong, because I thoroughly enjoy & admire, watching the true masters at work - "but I'm not that", and I never will be. I think I'll just continue to cruise, and when I can, I'll soar...................

But as for the tutorials, YES, yes indeed, I think they are "ALL", fantastic, and as I mentioned earlier, I think that Kitelife (JB) delivers a truly remarkable service to the kiting community, really hard to put into words...........

[Hedgewarden]

As for "Play, Play, Play" v. "Practice, Practice, Practice" - I actually do both. I think everyone does in different ratios.

I'm now flying at an advanced intermediate level (i.e. much retarded advanced level), so there are quite a few maneuvers that are easy for me, and many that are still hard or impossible. Each time I go out, I spend about 75% of my time doing the easy stuff, trying to fit it to the music (i.e. dance with the kite) - HAVE FUN, about 20% trying the harder stuff (trying rather than practicing) - currently the rolling-forward landing, and 5% or less "practicing" the hard stuff - e.g. blew that landing, let's try it two more times today then go back to fun stuff.

I am at the point where I can "Jazz" the kite - usually just above the ground I yank and spin and back and fro the kite, recovering from most of the "mistakes", and building "muscle memory" for the rest. I heard a Jazz musician say one of his (or was it Mary McPartland?) methods of improvising was to make a deliberate mistake and try to recover such that the mistake was artistically woven into the final improvisation. This is definitely NOT deliberate practice, since I don't even know ahead of time what maneuvers I will try. But it has greatly improved my skills of connecting to the kite. I've been amazed that even a 45 minute flying session will result in better skills the next time I fly.

This has greatly expanded my skills at inverted flight, and has developed some interesting side slide loops - usually they spiral inward, but they are developing with practice toward a true side slide circle.

Oops, there's the word "practice". That can mean either "play" or "work" I guess. Each person has to determine when "play" has become "work", and how much he/she enjoys each.

For the past year, progressing from advanced newbie to advanced intermediate (sounds better than retarded expert) I have wondered at how the body develops memory such that what was hard yesterday becomes easier today, even without concentrated "working on it".

It is said, first the kite flies you, then you fly the kite, and finally you and the kite fly together. Very true. The first stage requires more work, the last stage requires more play. When learning the Rev, you may have to spend more practice time than play time. As you master various maneuvers, they can be incorporated into the play.

But, Bazzer's technique for developing inverted hover and flight uses more play than work, IMO. Flying a Rev is sort of like walking - you have no idea what muscles you use in what sequence to take 3 steps (think quadriceps, toes, calf, hamstrings, etc. - extremely complicated). Similarly, as you develop skill in Rev flying, you will "think" a maneuver, and it will almost magically happen - like walking.

As for practice at the beginner level - the Rev literature has great suggestions. Learn hover, forward and backward motion, in all 8 orientations. As a beginner, you will probably need to practice this a high percentage of your flight time. But when you start getting frustrated (or tired if you are 68 like me), then just bash the kite around in whatever maneuvers you can do reasonably easily. All flight time will increase your skill level.

JB's tutorials are great. But remember a 5 minute tutorial may require 5 hours of work to master the material. Definitely watch them, and practice his suggestions. Don't expect immediate results. They will come. Don't expect to be able to unwind your lines in the air with a beautifully smooth bicycle rotation as he does as he pauses between maneuvers. Not at first. It comes with experience. I'm certainly not there, but my raggedy bicycles work for me now, and get better every time I get air time.

If you don't have fun as a beginner, then I will be lurking on eBay as you try to sell your Rev kite "only flown twice".

(The above is based on one person's experience - mostly flying by myself. Flying with partners will be more fun, and accelerate learning.)

[Reef Runner]

Flying with partners will be more fun, and accelerate learning.)

Hey Howard, you nailed it, and that's what I'm lacking - "a flying partner".....................but hey, you are inspiring me

[--Pete]

I know John has said (apparently elsewhere) that people should watch these in different orders at different times, since each will set the viewer up for information in the other tutorials.

Still, it seems that there might be a logical order to watch them the FIRST time.

I have tentatively ordered the first three: Intro; Assembly; and Launch, but from there, I'm stumped.

[Jeepster]

This is the order I found logical ...

1-Indoor Rev Tutorial – Introduction

2-Indoor Rev Tutorial - Assembly and Disassembly

3-Indoor Rev Tutorial - Launch and 360

4-Indoor Rev Tutorial – Relaunch

5-Indoor Rev Tutorial – Redirection

6-Indoor Rev Tutorial - Up and Over

7-Indoor Rev Tutorial - Slide (Float)

8-Indoor Rev Tutorial - Catch and Throw (Basic)

9-Indoor Rev Tutorial - Catch and Throw (Advanced)

Cheers,

Tom

[Guru4tru]

I could use a "sideways sumer-salts" (or whatever they are called) about now! heehee!!

Keep It Up!

Duane

[Wayne Dowler]

I could use a "sideways sumer-salts" (or whatever they are called) about now! heehee!!

Keep It Up!

Duane

Only if you do them indoors, Duane!!!!!!

That's a good order of watching, basic stuff first, then build on it as you see some results!!! Got my 2nd hour in yesterday with the Indoor, not nearly as frantic and feeling a lot better about it!!! Still having some issues with changing direction from ccw to cw, although I can do reverse 360* that way!! If I get 360* cw, then I'll try reverse 360*ccw!! Definitely learning to keep the hands close together, a much more delicate style of flying!! Things I get away with outside won't work inside at all!!

[John Barresi]

This is the order I found logical ...

1-Indoor Rev Tutorial – Introduction

2-Indoor Rev Tutorial - Assembly and Disassembly

3-Indoor Rev Tutorial - Launch and 360

4-Indoor Rev Tutorial – Relaunch

5-Indoor Rev Tutorial – Redirection

6-Indoor Rev Tutorial - Up and Over

7-Indoor Rev Tutorial - Slide (Float)

8-Indoor Rev Tutorial - Catch and Throw (Basic)

9-Indoor Rev Tutorial - Catch and Throw (Advanced)

Cheers,

Tom

Right on the money Jeep, that's a pretty rock solid "suggested" order.

Although of course, different personalities will tend to be more interested in one thing over another.

Bottom line, FUN, INTERESTING... If it ain't either of those, there's no point - right?

[John Barresi]

FYI, BTW, etc...

Looking for an opportunity to get indoors for another round of filming, but we have a lot of stuff coming up in the next month or two.

Next weekend, we're at Rockaway Beach OR for a fest.

May 20-June 5 we'll be on the road, down to Tijuana for another round of dental work, and a leisurely drive back up the coast.

I have some weekdays in June that we'll be able to use for filming, just need to accumulate a bit of cheddar to pay for the indoor space before then.

Stay tuned!

[Guru4tru]

FYI, BTW, etc...

May 20-June 5 we'll be on the road, down to Tijuana for another round of dental work, and a leisurely drive back up the coast.

Stay tuned!

WOW!! Could I "PARTY" in "TIJUANA" (center dot these guys)!!

Wait......what's this???......for "dental" work!??.....NoWay...never mind... Sorry 'bout that John......I wish you the best and be holding you in my thoughts! (At least I hear they have good drugs down there!)

Keep It Up!

Duane

Hey...Pick me up at my home site..."OFF TOPIC"! heehee!

[--Pete]

This is the order I found logical ...

1-Indoor Rev Tutorial – Introduction

2-Indoor Rev Tutorial - Assembly and Disassembly

3-Indoor Rev Tutorial - Launch and 360

4-Indoor Rev Tutorial – Relaunch

5-Indoor Rev Tutorial – Redirection

6-Indoor Rev Tutorial - Up and Over

7-Indoor Rev Tutorial - Slide (Float)

8-Indoor Rev Tutorial - Catch and Throw (Basic)

9-Indoor Rev Tutorial - Catch and Throw (Advanced)

Cheers,

Tom

Right on the money Jeep, that's a pretty rock solid "suggested" order.

Although of course, different personalities will tend to be more interested in one thing over another.

Bottom line, FUN, INTERESTING... If it ain't either of those, there's no point - right?

Right! Thank you. I'm changing my filenames to IRT-xx-subject so they will sort together and then in order. Also, so that I can see the subject in a file list that truncates after 10-15 characters.

The regular Rev Tutorials (that I have so far) will become RT-xx-subject. (I may actually use a real "xx" until I decide on some sort of order for those.)

[Guru4tru]

Hey Pete!!

Sounds like you are making a good come-back! Wait till you get that Power Kite!! heehee!

(Thirty (30) staples?!?! I have a staple gun and I probably could have saved you some money there, but I don't know how to remove them very well, so you probably took the best route! heehee!)

Keep It Up!

Duane

[Wayne Dowler]

I thought it was time for an update!! YEEHAW!!!! Things are really starting to come together and indoor is no longer looked at as something new!! Now there's still work (play) to be done for sure, but so much easier than before!! Even tried a few tuning changes to see if one setting is better than another!!! I've definitely found that there is no substitute for "time on the lines"!!! I'll admit to still being in the "slow and floaty" phase of learning, but we gotta start somewhere!!! It is amazing how slow you can move, but still get the kite to travel along!! Still got some footwork issues (stroke) that are messing up my changes in direction, and still working at hand positioning on a consistent basis (conquer my desire to flail), but most of what is covered in the tutorials is at least doable!!! And to me that's PROGRESS!!!