Hot Tricks vs. Hot Tricks

[John Barresi]

As of this moment, the Hot Tricks event is being run two different ways...

A couple years ago, the Hot Tricks event was being run two different ways...

West Coast:

All fliers enter into elimination rounds, judged by a mix of spectators and other fliers who are not competing in the event.

East Coast:

All fliers enter the same elimination rounds... However, the whole group of fliers serves as the judging panel... Two compete, and the rest judge. As any two fliers finish a round, they cycle back into the judging panel which allows two more to compete against each other.

The question I have here is, do you prefer to be judged by a panel of judges who may or may not understand every aspect of trick flying, or do you prefer to receive recognition and award from your peers?

This debate is exclusive of the Tricks Party format, which stands alone and is currently under development for the USA competition scene.

Please share your thoughts.

Edited June 15, 2005 by John Barresi

[Autrey]

I prefer the east coast format. Being judged by the ones you are flying against. In all the hot tricks I have been in while some of the decisions were tough to call, I have always felt they were fair calls. If it is a trick based event it should be judged by people that understand the tricks involved. Open individual freestyle could be judged by the general crowd as it is more of an entertainment style of flying I think. Costumes, props, ect...

[ikky68]

Hi John,

I like the East Coast way, although, I've never been to a West Coast comp... I don't think that the casual observer can appreciate the technical beauty of the comete. The casual observer probably gives bias to a 'pretty' kite as well (but what do I know).

I think that Mat Epstein(?) was announcing at Wildwood. And if all announcers had a fraction of Mat's style and knowledge of tricks, then all Hot Tricks Shootouts will be a success.

[John Barresi]

Agreed on both counts... As a flier, I really like "earning my way to the top" via peer appreciation. It seems to mean a lot more to me personally, and might render a more accurate scoring of trick usage since all judges are in the same boat.

Tying Graziano in the final round of Hot Tricks at ECSKC wouldn't have such a warm place in my memory if it wasn't for the other fliers who voted to make that happen.

Matt Epstein did an AWESOME job of announcing, we could use more like him.

[Bill]

West Coast:

All fliers enter into elimination rounds, judged by a mix of spectators and other fliers who are not competing in the event.

We haven't done it this way in the NW for quite a while. We do it just like the east coast does, the flyers judge the flyers. At some events the announcer may ask what the audience thinks but the judges don't really use that. Just makes the audience think they are involved

See ya,

Bill Rogers

[John Barresi]

Sweet Bill, thanks for the update... I look forward to flying in the peer-judged Hot Tricks events this year, looks like NWSKC is the next one (2 weekends away!).

[KeithG]

I like being judged by my fellow fliers far more than a casual observer. The crowd would be good for OIF but keep Hot trick with the ones who know whats going on.

If tricks party takes off here in the USA, and I hope it does, it will have to be judged by experienced trick fliers.

[John Barresi]

I hear that Graziano will not be entering the NJSKC Tricks Party for that exact reason... He has to judge, being one of the few fully educated trick fliers in the USA.

Good on ya Ron, I have no doubt things will go well.

[rudolph]

I'm with ya on this one John. I think that a panel of peers can be more apprechitive of tricks with overall conditions, Then with a panel looking at a card and not accounting dificulty due to dirty wind etc... Not to say that they dont I just feel my peers would be more in the know and say it how it is reflecting on how you fly.

[RonG]

Hot Tricks judged by fellow competitors. It took us a while to get there, but I'm glad we finally arrived.

Judgement by others/spectators was popular in the days when HTS was only partially about technical kite work. In the early, "no holds barred" days, any kind of theatrics on the field could win at Hot Tricks. Rev antics, people flying upside down, etc. I think it's fair to say Ari pretty much wrote the book on winning in Hot Tricks without tricks

But with the explosion of new tricks in the last few years, and many, many more fliers able to do them, I think Hot Tricks has finally come into its own. I'd like to see it continue in one form or another, while more evolved versions of tricks-based competitions, like Tricks Party, begin to emerge.

[Dorsal]

Most true spectators seem to go gaa-gaa over stacks and tails on kites, and barely seem to understand any tricks. I'm definitely NOT a hot tricks flyer, but if I were going to compete, judging by my fellow kite flyers would mean a lot more to me, personally.

[Tedrick]

I've flown in one HTS that was judged by spectator response, and the result was not indicative of what really happened on the field...the audience was just not savvy enough to know what they are seeing, much less to know good tricks from flailing. Judging by knowledgeable fellow flyers is the ONLY way to do this and get the right result until the general public gets more educated about trick flying. Plus, I like keeping all the competitors on the field for the entire HTS, because it helps to keep the spectators interested when they see a bunch of people on the field behind the flyers who are obviously involved in what's going on (as opposed to seeing them drifting off the field one by one to go do other things).

[YodaCal]

AFAIK, all of the comp events I know of use peer judging now.

The only 'hot tricks' events I know of that use(d) audience participation is the demo at WSIKF and the Nationals a few years back.

Cal

[Bill]

The only 'hot tricks' events I know of that use(d) audience participation is the demo at WSIKF and the Nationals a few years back.

We had some in the NW early on that were audience vote. You and I went head to head in Grayland (I think) with audience voting. I think the weather was nasty and there were like 10 people left at that point

Luckily it got phased out over time as people realized it didn't work.

Again, the "audience participation" that happens now (I know this still happens at Whidbey) is just to make them feel involved, the flyers on the field judge without them.

See ya,

Bill

[John Barresi]

DOH!

Lead post in this thread has been edited, so as not expire a decent topic.

[YodaCal]

We had some in the NW early on that were audience vote. You and I went head to head in Grayland (I think) with audience voting. I think the weather was nasty and there were like 10 people left at that point

Gee Bill, you remember stuff like that?...

Cal

Benson rulez!

[Bill]

We had some in the NW early on that were audience vote. You and I went head to head in Grayland (I think) with audience voting. I think the weather was nasty and there were like 10 people left at that point

Gee Bill, you remember stuff like that?...

Cal

Benson rulez!

I can remember stuff like that, but I can't remember why I got up and walked into the other room

See ya,

Bill

[Guest AndrewC.]

I think it's fair to say Ari pretty much wrote the book on winning in Hot Tricks without tricks

After watchin Ari at nationals back in 2002 I would have to completely agree with your statement Ron. Ari could teach everyone a thing or two to winning hot tricks without actually doing tricks. But he could also teach everyone some good tricks too. Both of you could. We need a pairs hot tricks competition. That would be interesting. I can already see it... The Wright Brothers vs. Abstract Mayhem. Haha...