Adjustable handles...

[John Barresi]

The attached image is of Todd Rudolph's handles...

We use little letter dice to ID which handles belong to who, so he's got TR.

This set actually has one more knot than we need, at any extreme of tuning.

[ant man]

my upper leader only has 5 knots thats all i ever used is their something i dont know do those adjustments serve a purpose i dont know about?? if its a better set up ill give it a try what better way to have an i quad leader set

[John Barresi]

Ant, how far apart are your knots?

And how far from the handle is the first knot?

Lastly, are you on 13" handles?

==

But to address your question... We never use the last knot either.

[ant man]

john exactly 1 inch i also did alot of my adjustments on the field it wasnt eazy sometimes i just fly on my stock leaders too i can switch to either 1 in minutes here is a photo for better a better idea yes i too have the 13 inch handles they are the best i also have a set of stock leaders that i use too next to my handles the little black loops

[Steve]

John

You know me, I kinda do my own thing. My adjustments are on the bottom of the handles. I feel like I can controll my reverse better. I wonder how many others think like me?

Steve

[Mike]

To have more reverse, I don't think it matters if your adjustment leaders are on the top or the bottom.

It's the difference in length between the top and bottom that matters.

If you take another look at the iQuad handles, you'll see that they will have more "brake" with their setup in every knot position except the two knots closest to the handles.

With the extended top leaders to set the brake do you iQuad guys notice the extra leader hanging down in your way vs. having extra leader hanging off from the bottom of the handles in Steve's method?

[John Barresi]

Well, here's the key for me...

1} I start with even length lines (all four).

2} To add reverse, the top needs to be lengthened.

Hence, the reasoning for having my leads on the top since I started.

I'm not grasping how you can lengthen the top lines by having leaders on the bottom of your handles... I'm not poo-pooing mind you, I just don't follow the methodology.

As for the leaders getting in our way, we generally stay within a knot or two of the end... So there isn't much to get in the way.

Yes indeed, iQuad members all fly with a great deal of brake in our tuning.

[Steve]

John

I'm really doing the same thing to my lines. ( Sort of ) I start with equal lines, all four, and to get more revearse I shorten the bottom lines by moving up the leader as needed. I don't adjust the top lines at all. Really the same, just backwards.

Steve

[Mike]

If the top and bottom leaders are, say, both 8" long and you have knots on the bottom leader, then you can attach the fly lines further back on the bottom giving you as much brake as desired. The extra leader then hangs off the bottom of the handles.

Am I making sense?

Sometimes when showing someone how to fly a rev, I've needed to make the top lines shorter to help them get it up in the air.

[Steve]

That's just about exactly how I have them. I made up my own leaders and after playing around a bit I found where I liked my foward to be. Yes the bottom leader hangs down when I have lots of revearse, but it doesn't seem to bother me. I suppose if you need more foward than you can get with the bottom on the first knot you could ad a knot about a 1/4 inch back or so. I havbe about 4 knots on the bottom leader about 3/8th inch apart, and very seldom go beyond the 3rd knot.

Steve

[John Barresi]

I guess for me, my goal is to make the top lines about 5-6" longer than the bottom lines (on a Rev 1.5)... Having longer leads on the bottom seems to counterproductive, especially if both top and bottom leaders are the same length, it seems you'd have to pull the bottom all the way to the back knot for enough reverse anyway.

Where am I off on this?

Again, I'm not knocking... Just trying to understand, and insure a thorough discussion on the matter for anyone who might read this in the future.

Can you guys post photos of your handles?

[monkey]

Can you guys post photos of your handles?

No. *cries* we lost mine at lincoln city.

However, I'm firmly in the John camp with this. I have very little leader on the bottom at this point, despite what Issue 43 :

http://www.kitelife.com/archives/issue43/r...ons43/index.htm

may say...

My current set has about 6 inches in the top, about 1 inch increments and the bottoms are maybe 2 (I don't love you all enough to go out to the car to measure them right this second) inches with one knot nearly snug against the buckle and another knot a bit more than an inch for light days when I really need a little extra forward just to survive.

Balance wise, I aim for this :

with my arms out in front of me and my wrists in a relaxed position, ie, not cocked back at all, I want the kite to basically stand still in the middle of the window. I'll usually start with the top leaders on the 2nd in knot from the end, the bottom snug to the bottom of the handle. Ok, I like a little reverse

I will get a picture later on and post it. Also, I utterly prefer the 13 inch handles, what used to be called the SUL handle. I did try a longer set this summer for an afternoon, but, it just wierded me out a bit and I had a competition the next day so I quickly scurried back to the old 13s.

I've also found that the best way for me to get my handles balanced is to let John fly my kite for a few minutes because he can NEVER RESIST tweaking them till they are "right"

[John Barresi]

One of the things we teach on the team is to have the kite balanced on neutral... Not forward, not reverse... Right in the middle.

This way, either direction is just a slight nudge away and the kite is never trying to prioritize between forward and reverse.

Also, when teaching... Consider this:

1} Standard Rev tuning, forward pulled in... Flier launches, it goes up and eventually proceeds to fly way off and crash on the edge... Impossible place to launch from as a newbie, and less wind to work with.

2} More reverse (not overkill though)... Kite launches, hovers a bit, then is 75% more likely to crash in the center 50% of the window... More wind to relaunch... Neither forward or reverse giving the flier a feeling of holding onto a galloping horse (stuck in forward).

I'd rather spend the time teaching them how to relaunch (with wind in the center), instead of having to launch the kite for them off the edge... More time in the air for them.

Just my two cents... I've been highly successful with this method.

[Steve]

John

Didn't know I was going to make this so confusing. When it all plays out my leaders and adjustments are exactly opposite of how you do it. I end up making my bottom lines about 5 inches shorter than the top ones, thus giving me lots of revearse. I should probably set up some handles with the top bieng the adjustment. Probably will work just as well for me, and I will conform to what seems to be the "norm".

Steve

[ant man]

i have tried all diffrent methods of adjustments the one in my photo gives me all the brake and reverse i need it also depends on personal preferance what might work for 1 the other might not like i do want to try the i quad setup a team of pros cant be wrong i think i should move my inner knots a little for better control

[John Barresi]

Steve! No way man!

Don't change for that reason, please!

There isn't really a "norm"... A lot of fliers use different methods, and most are equally as passionate about why theirs works best for them.

If your bottom lines are about 5" longer, you're getting the same effect... I'm just trying to wrap my own thick head around how it works out that way.

I always recommend trying every method... But don't change just because someone else is doing it another way.

Quad happens to be my #1 passion in kiting, so the details (hows + whys) are very important to me.

[Steve]

Hey John

I would never change just because other people do it that way! I will try different methods though to see if I can improve. Right now I am very comfortable with how I have it set up, but thats not to say I won't change it up some times. I was just curious to see if there were any others that set up their handles like mine.

Good flying !

Steve

[John Barresi]

[ant man]

i have diffrent knot adjustments for my blast their are 1/2 inch apart instead of a full 1 inch but 2 of my outer knots come in handy for extra reverse in light winds

[REVflyer]

My adjustments are on the handle bottoms, NO knots on the top lines. That means there's always a consistent amount of High Test bridle line available for "catches". You can't reach way out there, if your top leaders are six inches long!!!

I like throwing my quads around and doing slack-line stuff. I need all of the tuning knots removed except for one. The high test bridle line is really easy to untie and adjust, so one less thing to tangle.

"Neutral" tuning is the key and whatever works for you must be correct!

[ant man]

cant say i ever had longer bottom lines if you say its good for slack line tricks ill have to try it

[Penny Lingenfelter]

How we fly can determine where those knots (old school) are too. Someone who is an agressive flyer with lots of push and pull may not need as much forward or reverse.

We started the adjustments because we didn't have a choice of kites.. It was the Rev. I or the Rev. I. Now, a little adjustment goes a long way, or we have the option to swap kites out.

One way they tested even flying in the past was to go to the top of the window, face 6:00 and dive stop. it should stop even, or you adjusted to make it so. BB Penny~who prefers one knot to multi.

[John Barresi]

"Neutral" tuning is the key and whatever works for you must be correct!

Amen.

[rc_dude]

Forgive my ignorance, but how are handles measured? Is it the shortest distance between the ends or is it taken along the length of the handle? I have the standard handles that come with the Rev I.

[John Barresi]

Length... Follow the curve, not tip to tip.

Rev just changed their handle sets this year...

13" used to be the Rev I SUL handle... Now it's the regular 1.5 handle.