John Barresi Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 We're pleased to yet again announce the next prize being given away to our most appreciated supporters, the Kitelife Subscribers... For roughly 10 cents per day they play a major role in keeping KL growing in every way. This is a brand new Sweet Emotion sport kite by Dodd Gross, from Skydog Kites, roughly a $180 value! A good all-rounder, this is a great intermediate/advanced kite - http://www.skydogkit...etemotion.shtml If you haven't done so already, You can sign up here. Odds of winning for this prize is currently 1/295, and will be drawn on March 1st, 2011! Our thanks, and the very best to you... Let the drooling begin. INCLUDES A CHOICE OF SKYDOG T-SHIRT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 You aint gettin me to say nuthin about this one OK!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepster Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hey RNG ... tell John to bring it to Kite Party please. That will save on shipping and chances are Jim C will be there to sign it. Plus, then I can get some instruction on dual line flying ... Cheers, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 I know RNG as Really New Guy... Who is this RNG of which you speak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru4tru Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 YES!!!...YES!!!...YES!!!... I requested that THAT kite be given away about a year ago, or so... ...***AND HERE IT IS!!*** That's a good sign...I think I'm going to win this one!! And she's a Great Kite!! (I'll name her Sweet Pea!!) Keep It Up! Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Pete Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 I know RNG as Really New Guy... Who is this RNG of which you speak? I thought RNG was Random Number Generator. It's also all I see when I google { TLA RNG }. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Aha, maybe I was thinking of FNG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepster Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Aha, maybe I was thinking of FNG. Well, that is what 294 of us just called him!!!!! Cheers, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Oh, I'm excited about this one... The most recent of Dodd's designs that I flew is the Big Bang ! I was kind of embarassed when I met him that I didn't have any of his kites in my bag, not even my prized Firestorm (not that it fits in a bag...). Well, he was more interested in flying my Fearless, anyway... Fingers crossed ! ~Rob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru4tru Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 I know RNG as Really New Guy... Who is this RNG of which you speak? I thought RNG was Random Number Generator. It's also all I see when I google { TLA RNG }. Random Number Generator....that's how these prises are awarded...right? I don't understand the other RNG stuff...but it probably isn't important. Keep It Up! Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted February 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Yep, we use this... http://www.random.org/sequences/ Simply entering 1 and the highest subscriber number we have, formatted in one column. We look to award the first number at the top of the results... If that subscriber # is no longer in use, we regenerate the list, and then again look at the first number drawn, and so on. Since we have written 834 numbers since 2004 and only have 295 still with us, we do sometimes have to regenerate the list a few times. All fair, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru4tru Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 Hey John, I noticed that during my short absence there was another "Sweet Emotion" given away in June of last year...... But....It also had a "SKYDOG T-SHRIT!!!!" going with it! Keep It Up! Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Pete Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 Yep, we use this... http://www.random.org/sequences/ Simply entering 1 and the highest subscriber number we have, formatted in one column. We look to award the first number at the top of the results... If that subscriber # is no longer in use, we regenerate the list, and then again look at the first number drawn, and so on. Since we have written 834 numbers since 2004 and only have 295 still with us, we do sometimes have to regenerate the list a few times. All fair, however. As the RANDOM.ORG owner points out: Q3.1: How do I pick winners for a lottery or drawing? ...you can put your active subscriber numbers in a list, number it (easy to do with a spreadsheet or database), and submit the range (currently 1-295) to the Sequence Generator. Then look at your list to see the member number which is associated with that list number. This will give just as fair a chance for each member and never require regenerating the list of random numbers. This would require re-making the list of subscriber numbers any time you added or lost a subscriber, but, depending on how you maintain the subscriber list, that should not be difficult. If it is in a spreadsheet, sort by the active/inactive flag, and then use the row numbers of the active subscribers as the starting and ending numbers for the sequence generator. If it is in a database of some sort, write a report generator that creates a numbered list of active subscriber numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted February 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 The master list of both current and expired subscribers exists in two IMAP mail folders, with member numbers as part of the subject for easy searching, and scheduled reminders (in Thunderbird) for folks who need to be manually expired on a certain date or reminded for manual renewal (check or cash). We have folks who lapse for a year and come back (thereby reclaiming their number), and it's an easy way to store/associate the data that came in with their original subscription (date, email, amount paid, etc)... I could do a spreadsheet, but it would actually increase the work to keep it up to date. As for "fair chance", I would debate that such a dynamic random generator makes it truly random, even if I have to regenerate a list... All members stand the same chance of coming up at the top of the list twice in a row (after regenerating - which I've actually seen), or not coming up at all, no matter how many times I hit the button. Your thoughts are clear and fair Pete, but with the added work (second database) and ultimately random chances, I'll stick with what we're using. Always open to more thoughts though, especially if I've somehow failed to understand something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Pete Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 I certainly didn't mean to suggest that your current system wouldn't get the desired results (pick a random subscriber), but that depending on how you managed the list, it might be easier (and less load on the random.org server) if you didn't have to run the list more than once to get a current subscriber's number. Given the way you store the membership numbers, I expect the way it is being done is about optimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru4tru Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 What's this have to do with the "SKYDOG T-SHIRT"?!?! Keep It Up! Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepster Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 Okay, dumb question. Why don't you run the RNG once ... and then, go down the list until you find the first active number. That would seem just as fair and much easier. In fact, one could run it a day or so early (barring someone signing up at the eleventh hour) and take that number along with you on your travels. Cheers, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Pete Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 What's this have to do with the "SKYDOG T-SHIRT"?!?! It's Topic-Drift from RNG (several posts back). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru4tru Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 What's this have to do with the "SKYDOG T-SHIRT"?!?! It's Topic-Drift from RNG (several posts back). Probably Jeepster's fault....but, let's get back on subject!!! We are trying to find out where the missing "SKYDOG T-SHIRT" is!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted February 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 T-shirt added, bonus. Last note on the random drawing... I had some reason for regenerating the list, but I can't recall what it was, something bygone now I think. I still don't do early draws though, as we actually do occasionally have folks who sign up the night before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgewarden Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Okay, dumb question. Why don't you run the RNG once ... and then, go down the list until you find the first active number. That would seem just as fair and much easier. In fact, one could run it a day or so early (barring someone signing up at the eleventh hour) and take that number along with you on your travels. Cheers, Tom Sounds fair at first, but if someone has a number with 5 expired numbers just ahead (say 101, 102, 103, 104, 105 are expired, and he is 106) then he has 6 times the chance that active number 107 has. (Six numbers pay to 106, only one to 107). And, since I haven't won a wonderful Zen or Sweet Inspiration yet, I am obviously (and mathematically) more likely number 107 than 106. So, regeneration sounds like the best way short of sorting the list and using only active numbers. If I come up with a better solution, I'll trade it for a nice Skydog kite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru4tru Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 ""If I come up with a better solution, I'll trade it for a nice Skydog kite. "" ....And Howard...that's with the bonus of a SKYDOG T-SHRIT too!! Good to hear you are alive and kicking!! heehee!! Keep It Up! Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgewarden Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 ""If I come up with a better solution, I'll trade it for a nice Skydog kite. "" ....And Howard...that's with the bonus of a SKYDOG T-SHRIT too!! Good to hear you are alive and kicking!! heehee!! Keep It Up! Duane Duane, you may need to get some help for your subuculaphilia. (Heehee!) Hint: subucula... (Latin) Yeah - still floppin' and getting as much Rev time in as I can. March (and JB and crew) portend a Rev Clinic! If I could fly the rolling bicycle spin like Ben at the WSIKF - I could die a happy man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru4tru Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Hi Howard, I had to look it up!! heehee!! Definition of Subucula 1. a man's shirt in ancient Rome [n -S] Only you, (and maybe Jeepster), would know such things!?!? And Why?...because you guys were born back then!! heehee!! But, hey...I'm getting better with those "rolling bicycle spins". Practicing them most every day and every now and then it just happens right, so I think my bowels are picking up on it!! Keep It Up! Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepster Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 ... Sounds fair at first, but if someone has a number with 5 expired numbers just ahead (say 101, 102, 103, 104, 105 are expired, and he is 106) then he has 6 times the chance that active number 107 has. (Six numbers pay to 106, only one to 107). ... If the RNG only picked one number, then you're correct. But, I remember the characteristics of the RNG that John uses, it creates a random order for the full field of numbers. If there were only 10 numbers, the output might look like this: 4,6,8,3,5,1,9,10,2,7 The RNG doesn't pick only one number nor does it pick the first number and then list the others sequentially ... like this: 4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3. Thus, having expired numbers ahead of your number does not tilt the odds in your favor. Yes? Cheers, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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