Guru4tru Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Single Line Sand Anchor I decided to knock some weight off my cart. I have my regular kite anchor, which consists of some 3’ and 18" steel stakes, a steel pipe with connectors on it, nylon straps and a 4 lb. sledge to hammer it all in place. With the box I carry it in it come up to 20 lbs. This is OK when I throw it on my cart, with all my other stuff, IF I’m pulling it across solid ground or shell rock, but when pulling it across uneven Florida “sugar sand” an extra 20 lbs. makes a big difference in my possible life expectancy! heehee! So, I went to Walmart and bought a reinforced canvas laundry bag for less then $10 (it was listed for $20 online): SpaceItUp Gearbox Sport Laundry Bag Yellow/Grey #7021576531A - Laundry Bags $20.64 SpaceItUp Gearbox Sport Laundry Bag Yellow/Grey #7021576531A Sometimes you need more than a simple mesh or cotton laundry bag. That's where the Gearbox Sport Laundry Bag steps in. This heavyweight two-tone laundry bag features a draw-string closure and a full length shoulder strap to help easily get your dirty clothes from your room to the laundry room. Constructed of 600 denier polyester this bag will serve you well for years to come. Dimensions: 32"h x 15"w. The cord was a cotton cord so I combined another nylon rope through it for strength. I checked out the weight of a cubic yard of sand and I couldn’t believe it! The weight of a cubic yard of sand is “2400 lbs.”! After straining my mind trying to figure out how to multiply and divide again, it came out that if I fill the bag up with 2‘ of sand it will weigh 384 lbs. (Pete and/or Jeepster might find an error in this, heehee!) and with it going in the hole I dig to get the sand, this should be more then enough weight to keep my SKYFORM60 in place without any problem. And being a bag, it can help carry other stuff to the site. (Note that with sand in the bag you gain a couple inches on the Dia.) I’m feeling “Lighter” already! (And a little safer too, because if things go to hell, which is possible in the sand as opposed to hard ground, people will be getting hit with a laundry bag instead of a bunch of steel spikes! heehee!) Keep It Up! Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Single Line Sand Anchor I decided to knock some weight off my cart. I have my regular kite anchor, which consists of some 3’ and 18" steel stakes, a steel pipe with connectors on it, nylon straps and a 4 lb. sledge to hammer it all in place. With the box I carry it in it come up to 20 lbs. This is OK when I throw it on my cart, with all my other stuff, IF I’m pulling it across solid ground or shell rock, but when pulling it across uneven Florida “sugar sand” an extra 20 lbs. makes a big difference in my possible life expectancy! heehee! So, I went to Walmart and bought a reinforced canvas laundry bag for less then $10 (it was listed for $20 online): SpaceItUp Gearbox Sport Laundry Bag Yellow/Grey #7021576531A - Laundry Bags $20.64 SpaceItUp Gearbox Sport Laundry Bag Yellow/Grey #7021576531A Sometimes you need more than a simple mesh or cotton laundry bag. That's where the Gearbox Sport Laundry Bag steps in. This heavyweight two-tone laundry bag features a draw-string closure and a full length shoulder strap to help easily get your dirty clothes from your room to the laundry room. Constructed of 600 denier polyester this bag will serve you well for years to come. Dimensions: 32"h x 15"w. The cord was a cotton cord so I combined another nylon rope through it for strength. I checked out the weight of a cubic yard of sand and I couldn’t believe it! The weight of a cubic yard of sand is “2400 lbs.”! After straining my mind trying to figure out how to multiply and divide again, it came out that if I fill the bag up with 2‘ of sand it will weigh 384 lbs. (Pete and/or Jeepster might find an error in this, heehee!) and with it going in the hole I dig to get the sand, this should be more then enough weight to keep my SKYFORM60 in place without any problem. And being a bag, it can help carry other stuff to the site. (Note that with sand in the bag you gain a couple inches on the Dia.) I’m feeling “Lighter” already! (And a little safer too, because if things go to hell, which is possible in the sand as opposed to hard ground, people will be getting hit with a laundry bag instead of a bunch of steel spikes! heehee!) Keep It Up! Duane Hey Duane, I actually use the duffel bag that I keep my foil, laundry & lines in when I transport them to the beach. Just fill it with sand, and it weighs an unbelievable amount. Dump it out & load the gear back in when it's time to go home... ~Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepster Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 This posting made me smile. 1) The first picture is of you flying at Treasure Island ... and the guy in the red shirt in the background is a kite flier that I get to see each morning in the mirror. 2) I have a couple of 18" Gomberg sand anchors that I jerry-rigged as a compression sack to go to TI ... didn't realize that beach was the equivalent of concrete and the sand anchors were next to useless. I like the idea of items having multiple functions ... great suggestion. Cheers, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru4tru Posted July 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Thanks Rob...That's good to hear! I knew I was on the right path, but haven't heard of the duffel bag type anchor before and do to the weather, I haven't been able to try it out yet! It sure seemed more practical then steel rods in dry loose sand and easier to carry too. That's a great looking kite...great colors! My SKYFORM60 isn't a powerful lifter by any means, so I haven't gotten into any real laundry yet, but in a good wind, 15 mph or so, it probably has enough lift to get some stuff in the air. I suppose the guy hanging from your line is "laundry" and not you...right?!?! heehee! Keep It Up! Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru4tru Posted July 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Hey Jeepster!! (I clicked off my last reply before getting yours.) You're right!!! That "IS" you in the picture! I never noticed that before! heehee! And you are sure right about trying to dig a hole for sand in that beach!! heehee! But, it was Great for pulling my cart over...like a macadam road! Keep It Up! Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Pete Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 A couple of things: 1) My numbers came out slightly different. I make 15" diameter x 24" depth to be about 4240 cu-in or 1/11 of a cubic yard for 2400 / 11 = 218 pounds dry, loose sand. Filling to 32" would get you up to 288#. 2) Your figure of 2400#/cu-yd is on the LOW side. That is for loose, dry sand. If the sand is damp (3240#) or wet (3510#) you can gain a few more pounds of anchor weight. 294# (damp sand) and 319# (wet sand) for a 24" fill, and 388# (damp sand) and 420# (wet sand) for a 32" fill. You can always dump a few buckets of water into the bag after filling to add weight. 3) Is your bag able to stand the pull? I know you added a stronger drawstring, but are the seams in the bag itself strong enough to withstand several hundred pounds of pull? If I intended to load this bag as an anchor to near maximum I think I would at least make a bridle with an individual lead from the tie point to each of the eight grommets, using strong knots like bowlines to tie to the grommets. I would make the bridle from at least 500# rope. Great idea. I like this sort of "high-sided" anchor bag. Another source for heavy duty duffle bags would be the local army-navy store for a military-style duffle bag. I think they may only have four grommets, or 3 grommets and a wire loop, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru4tru Posted July 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Way To Go Pete!! You never fail! heehee! You are not only very dependable, but you are very accurate too! heehee! The diameter of the bag I used, I think, was 18" because that was the actual measurement when it had some sand in it. As I mentioned "(Note that with sand in the bag you gain a couple inches on the Dia.)" So, the original dimensions I gave you were maybe a bit misleading. (That still doesn't mean 384# is correct---I was surprised at how stupid I've become! It's good that stupidity doesn't interfere with my fun!) But even at your calculated weight, things should still be plenty fine. But...what do you get with 18"" as Dia.? The bag sure looks strong enough and I can hang from it, but then I'm only about 160 lbs. But, that's a good point. It doesn't matter how heavy the bag is, if it's going to rip apart under stress! heehee! Seeing how it's summer in South Florida and I need all the projects I can find to maintain my remaining sanity, I'll sew some 1' nylon strapping around the bag and then take them to a center point above the bag (maybe to a large steel ring) and attach the kite line to the straps. That should remove almost all the stress from the bag to the straps. Thanks Pete! Keep It Up! Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Pete Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 OK with 18" diameter: 24 inch fill with damp sand = .13 x 3240# = 421# 32 inch fill with damp sand = .17 x 3240# = 550# A half dozen of these and you could anchor a pretty serious kite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru4tru Posted July 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 OK with 18" diameter: 24 inch fill with damp sand = .13 x 3240# = 421# 32 inch fill with damp sand = .17 x 3240# = 550# A half dozen of these and you could anchor a pretty serious kite. "A half dozen of these and you can anchor the World!" Thanks Pete! OK...I'm good at 2' with "Sundancer"! Now...I'm off to "Jo-Ann's" (yeah, I'm seeing another woman! heehee!) I'll post again before I do anything. One thing that I've learned..."Post It Before Doing It!" because someone has already made all the mistakes possible and I don't have to make them all over again! heehee! Keep It Up! Duane BTW...There is one good thing about age effecting one's mind. I'm "GUILT FREE", because I can't remember all the stupid things I've done in my life! It only adds to my fun here! heehee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 "They" say that memory is the second thing to go, you can't remember the first!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru4tru Posted July 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 "They" say that memory is the second thing to go, you can't remember the first!!! No...I can't remember...but my wife says she's happy about it! Keep It Up! Duane (My "Plan A" bag reinforcing stuff is coming up in a few hours.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru4tru Posted July 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 OK!! I’m Ready!! What could be “soooo” hard about Sewing?!?! So, here’s my “Plan A”: (Just laying out what I plan on doing.) I’m going to have webbing strips (or whatever they call the stuff) running from about a foot above the top of the bag down and around the bottom of the bag and sewn to the bottom and sides at 4 places equal distance on the sides of the bag. With an extra strap sewn around the center of the bag (the center piece is because I bought too much webbing and felt I had to do something with the extra stuff.) The strapping will be of one piece (except for the center circle) with the 2 ends overlapping on the bottom and all sewn in place everywhere. That will leave 2 loops coming off the top which will have 2 rings (wielded-400# combined cap.) that the webbing straps will go through. Make sure not to forget to put the rings on before sewing...(this note I added so “I” remember). This way the strapping will be able to slide through the rings to equalize the tension on the straps and bag. Then the rings will go on this “gismo” (750# cap.) I could skip this “gizmo” thing, but I think it’s sort of neat and it will help to keep things orderly when not attached to the carabiner. And then the “gizmo” goes on a carabiner (5000#cap. from “Into The Wind”...overkill for sure, but it’s light and very easy to handle) which I will then attach the kite line to the carabiner. “What’s the best knot to use to attach the kite line to the carabiner???” So, the overall capacity is the weakest link, which is the 400# cap. rings (200# cap. each)...which is plenty for my "Sundancer" SKYFORM60. I usually fly with 300# line and 500# for heavy wind, but the pull doesn’t get any where near 500#, it’s just easier to handle the heaver line in a strong wind. The needles, thread, webbing stuff, rings and “gizmo” thing cost more then the bag itself, but then what’s another 20 bucks in this game! heehee! ============= So there it is! If anyone “sees or thinks” anything that might need “re-thinking” or added... Please, tell me about it!! (And the kite line to carabiner “knot” is needed.) Thanks! And don’t suggest using a “sewing machine”! With a sewing machine I’d finish this in an hour or 2 and then I’d just be back starring at that damn wall again waiting to this lousy So. Fla. summer to pass! Keep It Up! Duane PS “A Helpful Hint To Remember”: You may have wondered “Why?” the needle and thread are hanging out of my nose and the carabiner is in my left ear! Well, for some strange reason, as I grow older, my nose and ears seem to keep growing larger...(which is beyond me, because I still can’t hear anything and, according to my wife, I don’t smell any better either)...but I have found that they have become really great for hold things in! heehee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Pete Posted July 16, 2011 Report Share Posted July 16, 2011 In case you are curious, the "gismo" is called a shackle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Robin McCracken Posted July 16, 2011 Report Share Posted July 16, 2011 I purchased a Snowboard Bag on clearance for $15 at Big 5 last spring. They are only $29 retail and 6 foot long, about 2 foot diameter if filled with sand I'm estimating. Lining inside is waterproof, I'm guessing to keep the snow water residue from a "thawed" board from leaking in a car or other situation. I currently use it as my Kite Bag for the favorite kites. It has a Graffiti print on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Pete Posted July 16, 2011 Report Share Posted July 16, 2011 I purchased a Snowboard Bag on clearance for $15 at Big 5 last spring. They are only $29 retail and 6 foot long, about 2 foot diameter if filled with sand I'm estimating. Lining inside is waterproof, I'm guessing to keep the snow water residue from a "thawed" board from leaking in a car or other situation. I currently use it as my Kite Bag for the favorite kites. It has a Graffiti print on it. Well, that would be plenty heavy, but is there any attachment point strong enough to justify that much weight? Every "link" in the chain must be strong enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted July 16, 2011 Report Share Posted July 16, 2011 This topic (solution) seems to be getting awfully complicated. With just a little online searching, and you can find almost anything (in seconds) ! Actually, this seems pretty simple to me, with no hassles & cheap ! Fill this bag till you get tired of shoveling & if it won't hold your kite, back up the truck Top: Duffel Bottom: Flat Size: 39" x 39" x 39" Safe Working Load: 2,200lbs Lifting Loops: 2 Strap Loops Price $7.44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru4tru Posted July 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2011 This topic (solution) seems to be getting awfully complicated. With just a little online searching, and you can find almost anything (in seconds) ! Actually, this seems pretty simple to me, with no hassles & cheap ! Fill this bag till you get tired of shoveling & if it won't hold your kite, back up the truck Top: Duffel Bottom: Flat Size: 39" x 39" x 39" Safe Working Load: 2,200lbs Lifting Loops: 2 Strap Loops Price $7.44 Nick...I agree with you, but it sure doesn't look like a 2200 lb. cap. bag. Are you sure about that...and if so where do you buy it? I'd have do "some" work on it, like cutting it in half and re sewing it. I can get 2 bags out of it. Keep It Up! Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru4tru Posted July 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2011 The sand bag is coming along great! Here is a picture of all the webbed straps that I tacked in place. It’s ready for sewing. (I found that I had way too much webbing, so I went around the bag twice in the center instead of once.) As Nick mentioned, there is a far easier way to bag sand! heehee! And that’s really good to know for anyone that is just looking for a sand bag and doesn’t like the stuff sold at the kite shops, which I don’t care for any I’ve seen. But for those of you that are looking out your window right now, as I am, and are watching the lightening storm with temps in the mid nineties and no wind...OR...those of you that may find 3 feet of snow against you front door sometime and you can't escape...this is the bag for you (or something like it). And also when it is finished I can hang it on the wall over my beautifully crafted kite boxes and say, “What a beautiful sand bag that is!” and I can feel a sense of accomplishment for all the time and work that went into it! Seeing how the above picture will look about the same as the finished project...I’ll save you the final picture! heehee! Keep It Up! Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Pete Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 This topic (solution) seems to be getting awfully complicated. With just a little online searching, and you can find almost anything (in seconds) ! Actually, this seems pretty simple to me, with no hassles & cheap ! Fill this bag till you get tired of shoveling & if it won't hold your kite, back up the truck Top: Duffel Bottom: Flat Size: 39" x 39" x 39" Safe Working Load: 2,200lbs Lifting Loops: 2 Strap Loops Price $7.44 This looks like the bags they use to deliver pre-mixed mortar. I had no idea they were that cheap! If anyone is looking for an anchor for a really big kite, I think this is the solution. The one thing you seemed to have not mentioned is the URL where these are available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 This topic (solution) seems to be getting awfully complicated. With just a little online searching, and you can find almost anything (in seconds) ! Actually, this seems pretty simple to me, with no hassles & cheap ! Fill this bag till you get tired of shoveling & if it won't hold your kite, back up the truck Top: Duffel Bottom: Flat Size: 39" x 39" x 39" Safe Working Load: 2,200lbs Lifting Loops: 2 Strap Loops Price $7.44 This looks like the bags they use to deliver pre-mixed mortar. I had no idea they were that cheap! If anyone is looking for an anchor for a really big kite, I think this is the solution. The one thing you seemed to have not mentioned is the URL where these are available. Yeah, I know Pete. I did a search, I found the bag on the very first search, I posted the photo, I copied & pasted the specs, and I went on about what I was doing. I mean, everyone was just getting way too involved, with doctoring up another, "Wally World" wonder (wonder what it is, wonder where it's from, wonder if it's worth a d_m_ probably not, etc), Now that I look back, I don't know the exact terminology, that I entered into the search box, to find that bag. DON'T YOU JUST HATE IT, WHEN THAT HAPPENS.................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Pete Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Do I hate that? When that happens? OH YEAH! I did a search myself and found places that sell 2000# sand bags and the like. The ones I found wanted to sell only in quantities of 50 or more. Now I like big kites, but a kite that needs 50 tons of anchor is maybe just a bit out of my league. And just think if you mis-calculated -- your kite pulls a bit more than you figured, and now you have 50 bags that each weigh a ton, flying down the beach, mashing all the kite-festers to smithereens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Do I hate that? When that happens? OH YEAH! I did a search myself and found places that sell 2000# sand bags and the like. The ones I found wanted to sell only in quantities of 50 or more. Now I like big kites, but a kite that needs 50 tons of anchor is maybe just a bit out of my league. And just think if you mis-calculated -- your kite pulls a bit more than you figured, and now you have 50 bags that each weigh a ton, flying down the beach, mashing all the kite-festers to smithereens. Well, like I said, if this bag won't hold your kite, either back it up to the truck, or get another kite................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepster Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 This bag isn't exactly what you've been talking about, but close. From the looks of it, Duane will be able to take lots of stuff to the beach in his new bag. Cheers, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepster Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 But Duane, the bag I showed you really was close to what Nick proposed!!! But, then YOU had to ramp it up a notch ... and malign my good intentions. Geez!!!! However, I do like the idea of the Waste Management bag ... that would really work. Earlier this summer I saw a 200 sq ft kite pull a sand anchor free and start across the beach. The sand anchor was still filled with sand, but skipping easily across the sand while it picked up speed. Just as the kite approached a hotel building, an updraft caught the kite, sending it and the sand anchor skyward. Luckily there was a wire cable stretched across the front of the patio. It caught the line and cut it in a instant. The kite deflated quickly and was easily retrieved. So, it does pay to visit Gomberg's website and read his write-up on the proper use of sand anchors. Cheers, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 But Duane, the bag I showed you really was close to what Nick proposed!!! But, then YOU had to ramp it up a notch ... and malign my good intentions. Exactly my intentions, Tom. You've found, basically the same bag, that I originally proposed. Similar size, similar weight limit, similar price, etc. I don't care what you do to a cheap Wally World bag, you're still going to have a cheap Wally World bag. Why spend all the time, effort, and dollars, to reinforce a piece of junk, when you can easily find something on-line, that will do the job, and much, much more (?) I was just trying to suggest that all the "to-do", wasn't necessary. Anyway, my idea was simply to shovel sand into the big bag, till you got tired. Mine and yours both, are both rated at over 2000 lbs. So what if you put in only 100 lbs, 250 lbs, or 500 lbs, or whatever you want. Then just hook your kite line with a carabiner, to the handles, and voilà! You don't exactly have to fill it up, just enough to hold your kite. If it starts to move, shovel in a few more pounds of sand. Seems like a no-brainer, to me. And as I told Pete, if these bags, filled with sand, won't hold your kite, you need to hook it to the back of your truck, or get a smaller kite........... Here are some extra details about this bags, for anyone that it really interested !! GOOGLE FIBC's United Bags School of FIBC's What is a FIBC? A bulk bag is a large bag made out of woven polypropylene used to store and/or transport dry products. FIBC dimensions can vary based on customer needs. The bags typically hold anywhere from 2000 - 4000 lbs of product and generally placed on pallets by fork lifts using the attached corner lift loops. What does FIBC stand for? Flexible Intermediate Bulk Container. Some other names that you might here are: Bulk Bags, Big Bags, and Totes. What are FIBC's made from? 100% virgin polypropylene What sizes do FIBC's come in? FIBC's come in many different sizes and styles but can be customized for your product. Most bags come with a standard base dimension of 35" x 35" but once again all bags can be customized for your product. How do you move a FIBC? Bulk bags can be lifted one of the following examples: 10" lift loops stevedore straps lifting sleeves single point crane lift The above are just a few options. Lifting options can vary and can be custom made. DO YOU THINK THIS ONE WILL HOLD THE KITE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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