Problems with an axel

[RaginCajun]

I can't seem to get a flat axel. It just looks like a fast, forceful 360. What am I doing wrong? I've watched the videos and I still cannot seem to correct it. Thanks!

[mystainedskin]

I have found..along with slack and hand rotation.. there is a flick of the big pop handle at the proper timing. John explain it as slapping a drum behind you with the handle. For me I found that my hands must be in the right spots in the handle..I.e. not riding high and the flic comes with the thumb and fingers on that handle quickly.....along with the slack and rotaions..sort of isolating the major thrust to that bottom line to yank it out of the air.......and hours of trying over and over....

[NylonSky]

Dumb question, but what is a 360? And is there a video on it? Also trying to find the axle vid.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mystainedskin]

A spin on axis..

[NylonSky]

Oh I see. I was thinking it was the pilot doing a 360.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mystainedskin]

Well it could be..but in this case , I think not.

With an axel. The goal is to effectively pull the kite out of the air and spin parallel to the ground.. this is where the slack line definition comes in. without the proper movements you just get an abrubt and forceful spin of the kite...still in a vertical position.

[RaginCajun]

Exactly Scott. I'm having a hard time getting the kite parallel to the ground.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[mystainedskin]

Light to jo wind days are going to be your best "learning" times. Try moving at the kite in a steady pace and dive to reduce the pressure..work on the flic. I found...as watty explains... when your coming across the window to axel..sort of raise both arms a slight bit.. just before you pop and start hand rotations...lower them again..it gives you that extra loss of pressure in the sail and helped me..

[makatakam]

It also helps if you fly with lots of brake, this will allow the kite to slide flatter. Think of it this way: if your kite is all go and no brake, how can you slam the brake?

[RaginCajun]

I like subscribe to the JB style of flying, tons of brake... Lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[quaa714]

The key to a flat axel which no one has addressed yet is that the trailing edge (bottom point of sail) is what initiates the "flat" sail portion of the move. If that trailing edge doesn't come towards you on the initial move, the sail will never get flat and you will not get the slack into the line to begin the rotation.

Probably one of the main reasons an axel fails is lack of the above. If you can get the trailing edge to point at you as the initiating move of the axel, the rest will come by completing the slack line rotation. Kinda makes you look like a flailer at first until you get the motion but as slack line fliers will tell you....there is nothing wrong with flailing....right Paul!?

[SkyPuppets LimitVoodoo]

Makatakam mentioned the slide, this is key to the axel.

Get the Rev into a good samurai slide first, remember it is not the same as horizontal lateral flight, although they look similar... while sliding, if you are right handed, slide far to the right side of the window, if left handed to the left. If you fly with lots of forward drive, you will have to initiate your slide higher up the window- the more brake you fly with, the easier it is to slide, and axel, low to the ground. In general, it's easier to initiate a slide higher up in the window, regardless of leader settings, however, the higher up you axel, the farther you will have to move backwards to recover when you finish. The combination of slide and edge of window performance will really de-power the sail, at which point an axel is really easy. When it's time to axel, which ever hand you are leading with (traveling right=left hand) will need to be thrust forward, followed immediately by an impact on the trailing edge brake line. The timing here is important, and can only be mastered with practice.

To reiterate, make sure you can samurai slide first- once you have the slide down the axel will be easier to do.

[tkrinor]

Makatakam mentioned the slide, this is key to the axel.

Get the Rev into a good samurai slide first, remember it is not the same as horizontal lateral flight, although they look similar... while sliding, if you are right handed, slide far to the right side of the window, if left handed to the left. If you fly with lots of forward drive, you will have to initiate your slide higher up the window- the more brake you fly with, the easier it is to slide, and axel, low to the ground. In general, it's easier to initiate a slide higher up in the window, regardless of leader settings, however, the higher up you axel, the farther you will have to move backwards to recover when you finish. The combination of slide and edge of window performance will really de-power the sail, at which point an axel is really easy. When it's time to axel, which ever hand you are leading with (traveling right=left hand) will need to be thrust forward, followed immediately by an impact on the trailing edge brake line. The timing here is important, and can only be mastered with practice.

To reiterate, make sure you can samurai slide first- once you have the slide down the axel will be easier to do.

Is a samurai slide ..a slide with the LE at a 45* ?

[SkyPuppets LimitVoodoo]

Is a samurai slide ..a slide with the LE at a 45* ?

It can look like that... A samurai slide has the Rev flying with the sail more parallel to the ground, than if you were flying horizontal laterally. Think about the Rev laying flat on the ground- parallel like that. You'll notice the leading wing cocked upwards, making sometimes a 45 degree angle, sometimes less (but probably never more than 45), when traveling left or right in a slide. In a slide the leading wing is doing the driving, with the trailing wing more parallel to the ground, helping to keep a sort of float going. At least it feels that way to me.

Compared to horizontal lateral flight, the sail feels very "loose", with reduced control. This is due to pulling the sail partially flatter to the ground. The trade-off for control is flying ability, it is easier to keep the Rev airborne during a slide.

[Paul LaMasters]

The key to a flat axel which no one has addressed yet is that the trailing edge (bottom point of sail) is what initiates the "flat" sail portion of the move. If that trailing edge doesn't come towards you on the initial move, the sail will never get flat and you will not get the slack into the line to begin the rotation.

Probably one of the main reasons an axel fails is lack of the above. If you can get the trailing edge to point at you as the initiating move of the axel, the rest will come by completing the slack line rotation. Kinda makes you look like a flailer at first until you get the motion but as slack line fliers will tell you....there is nothing wrong with flailing....right Paul!?

if you mean "the other Paul" then I certainly agree with you sir. Flailing is why I'm still on sport kites with a couple of decades invested in these activities. I don't have the "half axel into a flicked landing" yet though, maybe next spring I will own my objective from either direction.

[mystainedskin]

The key to a flat axel which no one has addressed yet is that the trailing edge (bottom point of sail) is what initiates the "flat" sail portion of the move. If that trailing edge doesn't come towards you on the initial move, the sail will never get flat and you will not get the slack into the line to begin the rotation.

Probably one of the main reasons an axel fails is lack of the above. If you can get the trailing edge to point at you as the initiating move of the axel, the rest will come by completing the slack line rotation. Kinda makes you look like a flailer at first until you get the motion but as slack line fliers will tell you....there is nothing wrong with flailing....right Paul!?

Sortof what I was trying to get across with the handle flic. The flic gets that trailing edge up and into the flat position.. being a green horn, the best example I can think of is pulling your kite out of the air for a catch. When you pull the top lines..the kite goes flat. Same with an axel...its just 1 bottom line getting yanked fron the flic of the handle.

[mystainedskin]

youtube editing sucks....so here is a chop maybe it will help..

[RaginCajun]

Says video is private

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[SkyPuppets LimitVoodoo]

youtube editing sucks....so here is  a chop  maybe it will help..       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOZ_ws6iGIw   sorry...i changed. Try again in a bit. Give boob tube a chance to catch up

Them's axles!

How we get there seems it will be our own. I don't look like Scott does when I axel, but all the components everyone is talking about are on display there- slide or slide achieved while floating forward, trailing wing wingtip pointed at pilot, de-powering with the leading hand, and impact on the trailing wing brake line.

[SparkieRob]

youtube editing sucks....so here is  a chop  maybe it will help..       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOZ_ws6iGIw   sorry...i changed. Try again in a bit. Give boob tube a chance to catch up

..... and just like that,

Axel

Axel

Axels all over the show!

I just couldn't quite get, then seeing what you were doing with your opposite hand and it all fell into place.

Thanks heaps for the vid.

[mystainedskin]

This is a newly aquired skill for me. I am sure technique will improve and change over time. With all the help I recently recieved from 3 folks....it's the least I can do to try and pass it along.

[SkyPuppets LimitVoodoo]

This is a newly aquired skill for me. I am sure technique will improve and change over time. With all the help I recently recieved from 3 folks....it's the least I can do to try and pass it along.

Dude! Pat yourself on the back Scott, nothing to change there!

[Paul LaMasters]

Here's one I'm stilll working on, the evolution as demonstrated by Scott Weider,.... half axel, into a snappy "flick" landing (onto both bottom wing tips). A nice slow axel to start practicing this combo trick, when you can "command" it around (at your speed), then half way around add the next movement. Eventually you'll gain enough confidence to slam it fast and low so it sticks as a landing almost a blur visually!

[RaginCajun]

I would love to see video of that Paul!

[mystainedskin]

Its available on his youtube page, jason. I have shared also not long ago..Key west flying was the description I think of the video. Fabrice Balden also has this "unique" control of the kite also. Watch some of his stuff is "outside" the box also....