DeafThunder Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 I am planning to get this 150 lb X 300 yards Laser Pro Gold bulk flying kite line for $106.00 and wanted to know if this line can be line looped / eyespliced / zigzag sewed looped with or without the kite sleeves / thinner paracord sleeves without the strands ? ... Thanks. http://www.coastalwindsports.com/WhoseLine.html https://www.jonnieeisler.com/page-how_to_relace_sleeving_on_kite_surf_lines.html http://arch.ced.berkeley.edu/kap/discuss/index.php?p=/discussion/4261/line-work http://www.fixmybridle.nl/faq.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 How will you equalize the lines once they stretch? Even pre-stretched lines will become unequal in time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafThunder Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 exactly ... I am wondering about that and that is why I have not bought it yet. maybe I am better off to get 2 set of #150 120' LaserPro Gold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHBKF Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 12 minutes ago, makatakam said: How will you equalize the lines once they stretch? Even pre-stretched lines will become unequal in time. I have run into that issue with lines that have sewn loops. You just have line extensions or extra knots on the bridle leaders or make adjustment knots on your handles. Most power kites I have experienced, & all I currently own, have dedicated handles or bars. The handles & lines stay attached to the kite when stowed. You make adjustments as needed & just leave them that way. But most power kite lines don't seem to get stretched much as they are like heavy cord when compared to slender 90# LPG. You could also tie extra figure eight knots into the longer line to shorten it a tad. SHBKF 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafThunder Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Good point and that is a better way to have line extensions or extra knots on the bridle leaders or make adjustment knots on your handles !!! ... Thanks ! (additional) just found this link http://kitelife.com/forum/topic/4082-laser-pro-gold-other-spectra-lines 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHBKF Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 This is my 500th post, woo hooo! I am just beginning to try a little bit of single hand Rev flying. Equalized line sets will be even more critical. I have thought of making my next set of Rev handle leaders with even finer adjustment knots. Currently I have my knots set at 3/4" spacing. It would be tedious but I might try 3/8" spacing next time. RobB sent a set of Norm's finger straps to me this year. Those straps have short leaders with closely spaced knots for fine tuning your lines out in the field. Thanks again Rob. Those straps are magical. SHBKF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafThunder Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 HA !!! ... it can be done !!! http://www.awindofchange.com/splice.html I just saw it as I was about to purchase the LaserPro Gold at awindofchange 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 So you plan to do it? If so, plan on making your loops way bigger than the ones shown in the video. Remember you're making a larkshead in them, and really small loops are not easy to make them. Do you know why they were made? They are favored by speed kiters, trying to gain any little aerodynamic edge. For them, sleeving is inefficient. Most kiters wouldn't be able to tell any difference. But they are clean and neat. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafThunder Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 1 hour ago, Wayne Dowler said: So you plan to do it? If so, plan on making your loops way bigger than the ones shown in the video. Remember you're making a larkshead in them, and really small loops are not easy to make them. Do you know why they were made? They are favored by speed kiters, trying to gain any little aerodynamic edge. For them, sleeving is inefficient. Most kiters wouldn't be able to tell any difference. But they are clean and neat. and no more snagging around the knots ... it is about the same amount of snagging with basic handles (not snagless handles) ... I have experienced it BOTH ... I find more trouble on the double knotted sleeve line than I do with basic handles and also like the idea of long extension cord on the handles for extra adjustment, but there is a slightly flaw that unused extension (extended/extra knots) cord can get wrapped around or get snagged with another line ... I was think of how can I make this unused extension (extended/extra knots) cord straight line along the line like what Wayne said "Clean and Neat" ... like a rubber band or something to attach to the line kinda like sleeving the extension (extended/extra knots) cord and that sounds very nice and possibly and nearly 100% snagfree from the sleeve line, with snagless handles and snagless extension (extended/extra knots) cord. [sorry that my grammer isn't good, so ask if you don't understand] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 12 hours ago, DeafThunder said: HA !!! ... it can be done !!! http://www.awindofchange.com/splice.html I just saw it as I was about to purchase the LaserPro Gold at awindofchange Yep, well aware of that. Just so you know, that's 500-lb LPG spectra. Working with the relatively thin 90-lb or 150-lb will not be as easy as working with line that's four or five times thicker. Also they are making bridles from that line that the legs from attachment point to frame normally don't exceed five or six feet in length, so stretch will never be an issue. You can adjust the splice by loosening it, making the adjustment and than re-tightening it. If I need to equalize a flying line in the field, it takes about 10 seconds to tie a knot and shorten the longer line(s). How long will the operation take on the spliced loop? Can it be done easily in the field? Will you lose your fid in the sand or the grass? I don't know, but I'm thinking I'll spend less time flying than I could have. Don't get me wrong, it's a very neat and slick-looking way to make the loop, and if you want to take the time to do it then definitely go for it! I would love to have lines looking that good. I just won't invest the time necessary to do this to 9 sets of quad lines and four sets of dual lines. That's 80 loops to tie and maintain each season. OUCH! There is other maintenance that I need to do each winter to those 13 line sets, 14 Revolution kites and bridles, six or seven home-made quad kites, a few dual-line kites, handles, hardware, etc., etc. And as if that is not enough, I have a few other hobbies that require a bit of time too. Just want you to know what you're getting into. If it's practical for you, do it. I'm not against the idea, just won't work for my purpose. Let us know how it turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 @SHBKF No need, IMHO, for spacing less than 5/8" between the knots on top leaders. If you have three or four knots with 3/8" spacing on the bottoms, you can do the fine tuning there, without having to tie all them knots on top. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHBKF Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 9 hours ago, makatakam said: @SHBKF No need, IMHO, for spacing less than 5/8" between the knots on top leaders. If you have three or four knots with 3/8" spacing on the bottoms, you can do the fine tuning there, without having to tie all them knots on top. Great idea, something you've already implemented I suppose. I may do that too in addition to the upper leaders. I was thinking more in terms of using smaller steps to equalize the line set left to right on the top lines. My casual style & lesser skill level are pretty insensitive. I would say, after launching, I am able to realize if I have a bridle line positioned incorrectly coming off an end cap. I figure that is a pretty small amount in the bridle so that is where I am coming up with the 3/8" knot spacing thought. I probably can't justify anything finer. But mostly I'm just out here in the sticks flailing away. SHBKF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 It's hard to splice LPG, because it has relatively few threads in the weave and runs slightly flat, IMHO. Shanti Speed line splices well (tubular weave, more strands), not sure about Skybond with all that coating. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 16 minutes ago, John Barresi said: It's hard to splice LPG, because it has relatively few threads in the weave and runs slightly flat, IMHO. Shanti Speed line splices well (tubular weave, more strands), not sure about Skybond with all that coating. I have no experience with Skybond heavier than 50-pound. The individual-strand-style weave in my 50-lb, when I examined it, makes me believe that it will take much patience and more than a couple of tries to develop a method that can be repeated consistently, and the slickness of it would probably require burying at least 12 inches of the tag end to grip well enough not to slip. I think the Speed line has a weave coarseness which is somewhere between LPG and Skybond, but I have zero exposure to the Speed line. If anyone has more insight on this, I would like to know what you think. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafThunder Posted December 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 In those videos I mentioned ... Do you know what kind of lines are those and it's strength (lbs) ? ... and is it made for kite-surfing kite or power kite ? ... Prism (dual line) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 2 minutes ago, DeafThunder said: In those videos I mentioned ... Do you know what kind of lines are those and it's strength (lbs) ? ... and is it made for kite-surfing kite or power kite ? ... Prism (dual line) ? The grey lines are probably 300#, and the orange lines probably 500#, judging by the thickness. Seriously heavy lines for power foils with seriously heavy pull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafThunder Posted December 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 I figured that ... because I think I have #200 power kite 4-line which is not too thick, more like 2 or 3 times thicker than LaserPro #90 I have the d-splicer ... it works great with sleeving ... but dang ... laserpro ? ... almost impossible ... I need like a surgical micro d-slicer to make it happens. is it possible to do SEWING sleeving LaserPro ? ... Just asking ... found the tutorial video, but it said I have to sew THROUGH the lines ... will that weakening the lines breakage ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 2 minutes ago, DeafThunder said: I figured because I think I have #200 power kite 4-line which is not too thick, more like 2 or 3 times thicker than LaserPro #90 I have the d-splicer ... it works great with sleeving ... but dang ... laserpro ? ... almost impossible ... I need like a surgical micro d-slicer to make it happens. The high-E string from a guitar, bent into a sharp vee, will work very nicely. Just be careful not to stab yourself with the ends. Sharp as a needle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafThunder Posted December 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 there is a picture of a like a plywood or some wood that wedged folded line and sewing over it straighter ... and I got the heat shrink tubes ... umm ... umm ... heat may reduce the strength of the line like a candle wax I am still looking for that image ... I could not find it ... the folded & sleeved line is wedged between wood like a canal then sewing it up straight JUST FOUND IT http://www.instructables.com/id/Sew-a-loop-end-on-a-line/?ALLSTEPS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Not exactly sure, but I imagine they're talking about Kite Surfing line... It's much heavier, bulkier, and a bit less slippery than most sport kiters will use. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Sewing is intended for line that has a core since it cannot be spliced like a hollow braid line. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafThunder Posted December 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 11 hours ago, makatakam said: Sewing is intended for line that has a core since it cannot be spliced like a hollow braid line. Now that makes sense clearly !!! ... thanks for all those info & tips, but that doesn't mean it ends now ... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenriD Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 I have spliced loops on some of my linesets, but only at one end, so that I can adjust the length at the other end... I often splice laserpro, 90 pound is easy, 150 pound is tighter and more work. I use a blunt (embroidery) needle. To avoid slipping, I have the 2 parts go through each other 4 times (thread the long part through so that the 2 parts are interlocked) and never had one go apart. If the line is broken near the end, I replace the short part with new line. http://ladp.free.fr/portail/articles.php?id=27 For loops, I thread the whole loop through. One problem is to remove the lines from the kite, especially when in competition it has to be done with helpers... So I had to add a small pullable loop at the end... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafThunder Posted December 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 3 hours ago, HenriD said: I have spliced loops on some of my linesets, but only at one end, so that I can adjust the length at the other end... I often splice laserpro, 90 pound is easy, 150 pound is tighter and more work. I use a blunt (embroidery) needle. To avoid slipping, I have the 2 parts go through each other 4 times (thread the long part through so that the 2 parts are interlocked) and never had one go apart. If the line is broken near the end, I replace the short part with new line. http://ladp.free.fr/portail/articles.php?id=27 For loops, I thread the whole loop through. One problem is to remove the lines from the kite, especially when in competition it has to be done with helpers... So I had to add a small pullable loop at the end... Is this for broken string/line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenriD Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 The pictures in the link are for a broken line. The idea is the same for a loop, but you thread the whole loop trough the hole at each step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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