Welcome Ritlee

[John Barresi]

Hello @Ritlee,

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[Ritlee]

So yeah new the forum, and new to kiting in general.

A little background, around 25 years ago I got a stunt kite from Big5 if memory serves me right. The kite lasted all of about 10 seconds in the air as it went up fine, I attempted to do a spin, and as a novice I got it as far as the nose pointing straight down. Short story shorter, one of the spars was shattered upon impact and I didn't try again. Fast forward, I'm currently stuck deployed in the middle east where there isn't any shortage of wind, so I've decided to make the best of it. I bought a cheap kite from amazon, and after two days, and 3-4 hours total, I'm hooked. This time, remembering my first experience, after I launched the kite I let it get some altitude, and then wiggled it, feeling out the controls, then spun it and flew it from one edge of the window to the other. I can now put the kite pretty much where I want it.

 

A few questions,

 

This kite feels sluggish in responding, is this because I'm a novice, or because some tuning is needed, or (my guess) because of the kite itself?

 

The kite has a tendency to "porpoise" in flight, usually during fast flight. I use the term fast loosely as the kite seems slow, taking probably 8-10 seconds to go from one edge of the window to the other.

 

My flying site is relatively open and flat. When I start flying the wind is below 25 knots, reported by a local airport. I fly until the wind is too slow to hold the kite in the air.

 

I am quite interested in power/traction kites, and looking for suggestions on something that I might fly that can be a ground trainer and possibly move me on land/water/something.

 

Outside of kite flying my other hobbies include R/C Planes and Helicopters, and SCUBA diving.

[Wayne Dowler]

Welcome!

Most likely the kite is the problem. Amazon kites are a crapshoot usually, good enough to learn on (sometimes), not good enough to progress with. Looking at the frame shows fiberglass, not the lightest material. I'm guessing the kite does 6-7 mph as a minimum wind speed needed to fly. Unfortunately, a lot of time with kites, you get what you pay for. Buy cheap - get cheaply made, buy more expensive - get better materials and workmanship. In the future look for carbon rods for framing, it will lower your wind range and they are pretty strong too.

As for your request on power kite stuff - I'll leave that to others  -  not my thing! But I would think a foil of some kind might be a good trainer. Smaller to learn on, bigger for being pulled.

[hyzakite]

I can think, reading "around 100' of string for each" the lines probably need to be equalized, stretched or both. I bet good quality line would stop the porpoising, because the line is stretching back and forth it takes that time for the kite to respond to your imputs.

[Wayne Dowler]

Betting at that price - not spectra. Mostly likely dacron, maybe dyneema. EQ'ing length will help, if they are dacron, stretch is a whole other thing.

Probably scratching your head over line types now - hers's a brief summary:

Dacron - sold with a lot of beginner's kites. Pretty strong BUT very stretchy. Feels like a big bunjii cord to your kite. Commands seem to take forever to get there. And if the winds pick up - the stretch gets even more apparent.

Dyneema - A type of spectra usually sold overseas, but also in some medium quality kite packages, Made of the best materials (spectra) but has a looser weave, allowing for stretch. Better than dacron, but not as good as .....

3,- Spectra. Sold under the trade name of LPG (laser pro gold), Shanti Speed line, or Shanti Skybond. These lines are tightly woven and act like the kite is hardwired to your hands. You pull - the kite responds - NOW! No delays. But they come with a fair cost - not too god awful in 2 line, but expensive in 4 line setups. The good thing is that they last pretty well. I still have dualie line sets from over 10 - 15 years ago in my bag! It's that initial cost that shocks you. But think of it this way - what is your only attachment to your kite? LINES! 

So it comes down to the response times and costs. Depends on what is most important to you.

[Ritlee]

Now that you mention it, I have been thinking that the lines streeeeetch, especially when I get the kite loaded up. I see what you mean about spectra being a bit pricey, doubt it would be that great of a boost above Dyneema, so I'll see about getting some dyneema line, at least it couldn't hurt, and could be backup for a future kite if it doesn't wake this kite up. Any advice about the weight of the line? What about length?

As for "normalizing" this line every time I fly it, it's different. So I really should replace the line .

I don't know what the spars are made of, but I think your right about fiber glass, thankfully they're hollow but they do see to be a bit heavy compared to some CF rods I've worked with on planes

Thank all of you for the advice.

[Ritlee]

One other question... what the heck is this sleeving thing? I think I've gathered that it's basically a jacket on either end of the line to designate which line is which, is there anything more to it than that?

[Wayne Dowler]

Sleeving was used to buffer the line and increase the knot strength in the flying line. In old days, knots decreased the strength by almost half. Sleeving restored much of it back. With the newer formulations of materials, strength is not as big an issue, lots of short lines are made with no sleeving. Still used on longer lines though.

[SHBKF]

Welcome to the forum  I am extremely pleased that you are having an enjoyable experience with your new kite.  The kite has borrowed styling from the Prism Nexus line of kites.  It also is approximately the same size.  Getting a good quality line set is essential to more controlled & enjoyable flight.  But that can come with the next kite you buy if you select a good quality ready to fly model.  You can have a great time flying a kite this size, 68" across.  Line length of 65' to 90' with a 90 pound test strength would be my recommendation.   The Prism Nexus is more expensive but it comes with a good line set.  As a general rule smaller kites fly more quickly than full size wings.  A full size sail would be 96" tip to tip & would typically be a little easier to control .  Many people recommend the Prism Quantum as a fairly tough larger kite to learn with that is not too expensive.  But I started out thinking of a hundred dollar kite as being high priced.  The Quantum is discussed so often that I finally got curious & bought one to see what the deal was with this kite.  I like mine & it is a good looking kite that you can allow others to fly without too much concern.  Keep positing, let us know what's going on with your kite adventures.  We love hearing all the details.  SHBKF

PS Foil kites are a topic for much discussion.  Start a new topic to get our thoughts if you wish.

[makatakam]

Hi, Ritlee, and welcome to the forum. Good to have you here. 

Lines that are stretchy will cause the kite to porpoise, and the design, shape and size of the kite may exaggerate that tendency. Select replacement lines with as little stretch as possible, within your budget, but remember that zero stretch is the ideal. Kite speed is determined by many variables, including:

1. Design -- some are made specifically for speed, most are not

2. Physical weight of the kite -- light is fast, heavy is sluggish

3. Line weight -- thick heavy lines create drag, and the kite must pull everything that is attached to it

4. Wind speed -- self-explanatory

5. Type of material -- slick is quick, rough is not

6. Porosity of the material -- if some air passes through the sail, then it not moving the kite forward

7. Frame weight -- physical weight adds to sluggishness 

8. Frame flexibility -- excess flexibility dumps some of the air that would move the kite forward

9. Overall size -- small is fast, large is slow(er)

10. Panel layout -- can intentionally (or unintentionally) enhance or hinder the flow of air over the sail

There are a few more like air density and humidity that are beyond the designer's contol, that will affect performance. As you have probably surmised by now, all of these variables inevitably lead to compromises that determine the kite's characteristics and, of course, price. In the case of commercially made kites, durability is also a factor. Most manufacturers will not market a kite that tends to self-destruct on the first launch by a beginner. They use skill level assessments in the description of each model to give the buyer an idea that the kite may not be suitable for harsh treatment, or that it requires a specific level of expertise to control and may therefore not be easy to fly in the hands of a beginner.

The combination of all these factors will determine the selling price of any specific kite. It is best to avoid the least expensive models if your intent is to fly more than just once as a whim. For a brand new kite, of any style, spend no less than $80.00 (imho) if you want to avoid misery.

More important than any of this is that you have fun, smile and don't forget to breathe!