Welcome ACrop

[John Barresi]

Hello @ACrop,

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[ACrop]

Hey John,

I joined because I am considering signing up for the NC Quad clinic on Sept 10-11, but had a few questions before I could commit. 

I am a beginner, some limited control, some crashes, and some moments of bliss.  I spent a couple of hours with Cath Shook and then bought a full 1.5B kite from her.  I am hooked, but struggling to deal with the lack of steady wind in my area.  Cath said I live in the "land of no wind" and she is right...I live in an area where lots and lots of trees are the norm.  As a mother of three kids, driving a ways for wind is possible but not likely on a regular basis.  However, I do have places in my normal weekly routine that have clear space if I can manage to use what wind I get.  So my questions are:

1.  I know that the class location is chosen for good wind, but will the class - or could the class also cover some learning on dealing with flying in areas of limited disturbed wind?  If I can become decent on shorter lines and with the wind found on the sports fields with trees at the edges near me then I am more likely to keep flying than if I have to commit to driving 45 minutes one way to find good wind. 

2.  I read in the forum that you are recommending each student bring a full sail, full vented sail, 80'ish lines and 120' lines.  I am reluctant to buy a vented sail, as I (in my infinite beginner knowledge ) worry that most of my wind will be light and gusty.  If I stick with kiting because I am successful with it, I don't doubt that I will end up with a vented sail, but right now how do I make choices that put my money where I will get the most fly time?   So the questions are: do I need to buy a vented sail for the clinic? At the clinic will we learn when I should be changing from one sail to the other - how do I recognize when the wind is too strong for the equipment I have in the air? 

3.  I would need to get some 120' lines - any recommendations on where to get them?  What should a set cost?

Thanks

April

[Wayne Dowler]

I can answer your line question - Flying Smiles kites has just about any length lines you need! Tell them you're taking JB's clinic - they may cut you a deal! Most good line sets are in the $75-100 range for 120'

The reason for both is that what happens if the wind is blowing too strong? A vented kite gives you back the control you would lose, trying to fly the std sail in too strong a wind. 

You definitely have the right idea about flying spaces! Let me recommend a short set of lines for use in tight places. Much easier to move about with, if the winds change direction. But beware - the wind window is much smaller and things happen that much faster!

[ACrop]

1 hour ago, Wayne Dowler said:

The reason for both is that what happens if the wind is blowing too strong? A vented kite gives you back the control you would lose, trying to fly the std sail in too strong a wind. 

I understand why the vents - I guess what I was trying to ask is:  "what do you see/notice when you have a rev aloft and the wind is to strong for the equipment you are flying?"  Is it that you no longer feel in control?  Is is that the leading edge curves too much or that the lines hum....how do experienced kiters know "better get this sail down and switch to my vented one before I break something!"  What do you look for so you don't break or stretch something?

I had been thinking of calling Flying Smiles, I think Cath would get a kick out of hearing from me so soon - especially because she predicted that I would be back.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[John Barresi]

1 hour ago, ACrop said:

I am a beginner, some limited control, some crashes, and some moments of bliss.

I love this. What a place to be!

1 hour ago, ACrop said:

1.  I know that the class location is chosen for good wind, but will the class - or could the class also cover some learning on dealing with flying in areas of limited disturbed wind?  If I can become decent on shorter lines and with the wind found on the sports fields with trees at the edges near me then I am more likely to keep flying than if I have to commit to driving 45 minutes one way to find good wind. 

Absolutely, much of what is covered in the clinic applies universally, and even if we didn't see a low wind window while we're there, I am certain you'll see the benefits when you go back to your home field.

1 hour ago, ACrop said:

2.  I read in the forum that you are recommending each student bring a full sail, full vented sail, 80'ish lines and 120' lines.  I am reluctant to buy a vented sail, as I (in my infinite beginner knowledge ) worry that most of my wind will be light and gusty.  If I stick with kiting because I am successful with it, I don't doubt that I will end up with a vented sail, but right now how do I make choices that put my money where I will get the most fly time?   So the questions are: do I need to buy a vented sail for the clinic? At the clinic will we learn when I should be changing from one sail to the other - how do I recognize when the wind is too strong for the equipment I have in the air? 

Wayne covered some of your question(s) quite well, but to address #2...

There is no requirement to buy a vented, especially since I get the sense you're still feeling quads out a bit - if the wind jumps up that high, there will be at least one vented "beater" to use. Over the course of two days, you will definitely get a sense of what prompts sail/frame/line changes.

As for "when is the wind too strong for my kite?", the easiest answer is when it's pulling quite hard, leading edge is curving significantly, kite accelerates too quickly and is generally unruly (raw power vs beginner control issues).

120' is not required for general flying or the clinic, but longer lines DO give you a much larger sky in which to fly (more time to think, more space to travel through) and they ARE required for team flying exercises (which are also generally easier than you might imagine).

Not sure if I missed anything, door is open if so - holler back.

[Wayne Dowler]

Typically it's something I feel. But most look at the LE for bend. You can see if it is bending too much, requiring either a frame or kite change. I lean towards swapping kites more than frames, but that is my personal preference. I do fly a lot of team, usually we agree on a setup as a group, so as to have everyone equal in speed and control. But for solo flying I do have my own likes, including getting a vent in the air faster than most! I suffered a stroke and avoid taking a chance of a faceplant!!! I am not a fan of "the pull"!

But changing frames does have limits in my book. Put too strong a frame in a sail and it can stretch! And once stretched, it won't return to original shape. For instance - I won't put a 4 wrap frame in a std sail. Makes the sail take all the stresses. the frame just doesn't flex enough. So really watch the LE. It will tell you when things need to be swapped!

As you fly more and gain experience - you'll "feel" that need to change pretty quick!

[John Barresi]

FYI, I've flown at Fort Macon a number of times now and have seen all wind ranges - something for everyone.

[photomom]

I must jump on here and let you know that there is a kite shop in Atlantic Beach, NC just down the road from Fort Macon and most probably where you will find a place to stay.  It is Kites Unlimited & Bird Stuff.  It's located in the Atlantic Station Shopping Center.  They have quad lines and other accessories.  And they have some Revs and Veritgos in stock.  And a couple of speciality Revs.  They can help you out with whatever you might need.

[makatakam]

Hi, Acrop, and welcome to the forum. I look forward to flying with you someday.

As far as addressing your concerns -- go to the clinic, period. I don't intend to be rude or crude, but you and the others so far are really overthinking this. Take whatever you have now and go. There is tons to learn from one of John's clinics without even picking up a pair of handles. Usually, someone has an "extra one" of whatever is needed. If not, then taking turns on one of John's "beaters" will be the way to go. Trust me, he usually brings more than one kite to the show. You will learn more in two days of clinic time than you would in 6 months of learning on your own. Two days of flying with JB will put you well beyond the point of just basic control, and give a direction and purpose to your practice time. It will help dramatically in dealing with light and variable winds.

And please, don't take my word on this; call Cath and talk to her. John has a knack for teaching others how to fly quads and understanding how you can use wind to your advantage.

 

[Lifes-a-Beach]

I was an experienced quad pilot, with decent control, before I attended JB camp at Ft. Macon last year. Now, I am a GOOD pilot, flying with intent! [emoji41]
You will get way more value out of a two-day camp than having a 2nd kite to get aloft. There are plenty of folks that will let you "test" their gear. Then, you can purchase with knowledge and more experience. Hope to see you there - if work permits!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[John Barresi]

Thanks for the kind words fellas, you know I love to see folks succeed.

[ACrop]

23 hours ago, photomom said:

 

Ok y'all.  I registered for the clinic.  Man, my family is gonna think I went crazy...they were already looking at me funny when I was trying to fly on a narrow NC beach this summer rather than building sand castles.  Oh well, not the first strange thing I have done, likely not the last.

Hope to see some friendly faces in North Carolina.  My husband says that anyone who would sign-up for this type of clinic is likely to be our kind of person - very friendly and interesting in general.  See ya soon. 

(I also ordered some extended leaders - those don't need to be mailed if you just want to bring them to the clinic that works for me.)

Thanks to all who answered and encouraged.

[John Barresi]

34 minutes ago, ACrop said:

My husband says that anyone who would sign-up for this type of clinic is likely to be our kind of person - very friendly and interesting in general.  See ya soon. 

Darned tootin'!

FYI, your discount for being a KiteLife subscriber wasn't applied since both sign ups (clinic and sub) were in the same order - issued a $25 refund accordingly, thanks - looking forward to seeing you in NC next month!

[Mike Klaiber]

Hi all, welcome AC. I have a Zen. 1.5, mid vent and full vent I am bringing folks can use as needed. I hope to try all out at some time. Looking forward to the clinic!


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[makatakam]

@ACrop You will not be disappointed. Even pilots who have been flying for 10 years and more can learn something at one of JB's clinics. There is always something new and different happening with kites and John is always on the cutting edge.

[ACrop]

Yeah, watching JB's tutorials made me know that it was a good choice. I think that it will be a good time, just have to let go of the guilt over doing something so big just for self and fun. I am also motivated to take a class before I get any bad habits well learned. Unlearning is not fun.

Thanks to Mike for coming with a generous heart about his gear. I wince every crash...but am getting better each time.


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[makatakam]

23 hours ago, ACrop said:

Yeah, watching JB's tutorials made me know that it was a good choice. I think that it will be a good time, just have to let go of the guilt over doing something so big just for self and fun. I am also motivated to take a class before I get any bad habits well learned. Unlearning is not fun.

Thanks to Mike for coming with a generous heart about his gear. I wince every crash...but am getting better each time.


Sent from my iPad using KiteLife mobile app

The first day of the clinic is the last time you'll crash. You will be amazed at how easily that can be avoided. In kiting there are no "bad habits" to unlearn, only new habits to replace others, and each different kite requires different habits. So some of your bad habits can be used for other kites. The only bad thing is not using enough brake to give yourself control of the kite. You'll probably hear that mentioned several times during the clinic, and hundreds of times here on the forum. Go in with an open mind and ask every question that comes to mind. John has the answers. Take frequent breaks and don't "overthink" what you are doing; instead, feel the way the wind wants to move the kite and use that to your advantage. Be aware of the wind's direction, and avoid the edges of the window until you acquire some familiarity with what to do when the sail pressure suddenly disappears.

Most of all have fun, smile and don't forget to breathe.

[Mike Klaiber]

Hmmm. Never crash again? Worth the entry fee just to save on spars! [emoji3]


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[John Barresi]

Still crash a little anytime you learn (me too - still), just not as hard or as often.

[makatakam]

I don't crash anymore -- I do unexpected landings.