riffclown

Exciting! Looking foreward to pics.

Slight divergence from Topic but still on topic of Bags.. I wanted to have a bag to store my Red/White/Blue Stack in so I came up with this simple drawstring bag in RWB of course..Was my Saturday Morning Project.... It allows me to fold the stack together and roll as loosely as I desire (also allows me to add a few more kites before the bag starts getting tight)....Added Photoshopped idea.. Maybe I should silkscreen it.

That is awesome. Thank You..

all valid concerns and you should indeed get the kite that best meets your needs regardless of branding.

So I had a nice chat with Andy at OSK today regarding the Freileins and my bag concern.. He graciously accepted the bag feedback and promised it would be a change based on those comments. He did say the mesh is different and less prone to the mesh issue we are familiar with but the consumer should be able to fold their kite as they please within reason. I'll follow up on this point in the future when I get more information.. While I had him on the line I was also able to get some clarification on a few other points about the Freilein Kites and the Vertigo and Exodus lines.. I had made the statement above that the Exodus had the holes instead of the mesh on the leading Edge and the Vertigo had the more familiar mesh. He stated that it was a coincidence of my observations..Both models will have the holes and the newly built kites from both models now have that feature. It will make it out to the field through attrition as he goes through stock on hand. Depends on color, model etc.. He also clarified that the Vertigo will continue to be only the full sail and the Max models. If you want a mid-vent or the MAXXX you will need to go the Exodus route..

Freilein Packing and unpacking addendum.. After unpacking and repacking the sails a few times, I've noticed the bag they come in seems about an inch too short for standard folding practices. Especially if you want to vary your fold points to prevent creasing/screen damage etc. It fits nicely if you fold somewhat tightly where the center section creates a natural crease but for those that want to preserve their sails, you'll have to either adjust one end in and the other end out or grab a bigger sleeve. I'd prefer the bag be about 1.5" to 2" longer. This kite is seated all the way to the bottom of the bag but I've varied my fold according to general best practices only to find I can't close the bag without forcing the issue a bit..

Membership check is in the mail.. Never flown diamonds.

I have yet to see one in the US that didn't go through OSK.. They seem to be the North American Distributor.. The LE change seems to be on the Exodus.. The Vertigo to my knowledge still has the Mesh.. Vertigo & Exodus, two different kites by Freilein.. The Exodus also has the more integrated framing and more venting options.... Pictures from OSK and shared with ExtremeKites.. Vertigo only in Full Sail and MAX (full vent) Exodus has four venting options, Full Sail, Mid Vent, Max and MAXXX The Fabric between the two lines also seems to be different but I haven't ordered an Exodus yet.. waiting until I'm comfortable with the Vertigo before investing more in a new company's product..

I thinking a little closer to home..but we can explore bringing JB out for a weekend..

I think there are a few of us that could work together on this.. But something we meed to discuss for sure.. Including the appropriate venue to fly..

Wait until he combines the hobbies.. A set of Ski's and a 12.5m HQ Montana will change your world entirely..

They do have some broken images o their site.. Here's a pic of a Exodus Stack (Progressive Venting) before the LE Screen change.. Not my pic.. It was shared by another kiter at ExtremeKites Forum.. ( Grateful Dave B )

Welcome to KiteLife...

How much to purchase outright for a weekend?

Need is such a strong word.. I typically have anywhere from 30-50 kites on hand when I hit an event.. But I also supply kites to train the public and I fly stacks and power kites for demos too..

Absolutely.

Never met him but his reputation all around sounds like he's OK.. i know others that have dealt/talked with him. OSK seems to be the North American Distributor..The kites I got from Kites Unlimited also had the OSK Branding. Shortest path to the source for issues would make them a stop in any problem resolution.

Exactly! I'm under the impression that the Exodus line of Freileins have the holes and hidden spar innovations.. I think the Vertigo line has the more standard meshing you are used to seeing.. Not sure though..

Interesting mix of scenarios, The grocery bag bowling ball is common sense. As for the baseball through the window, accidents do happen. In your other two cases though, you have a reasonable expectation of quality and thus the warranties involved. If you new car's brakes failed pulling out of the dealer lot and you got hit because of it, don't try to say you wouldn't be all over the dealer and the manufacturer. There's normal wear and tear but there's an expectation of quality in a product purchased. Especially one with a premium price point. That's why there's recalls on products like certain Airbags and even TV's whose capacitors failed and left users with black screens. The current Galaxy Phone issues also seem to be relevant.. If you phone catches on fire is it your carrier or the manufacturer that is to blame?.. Same deal with iPhones a few years back. If I need a kite repaired, I send it to me. If I can't repair it, I'll contact Eliot. I didn't ask Rev to repair my Trifinity when the spar broke and I had to rebuild the LE. I was flying it in higher winds. It was possibly my fault. I didn't ask Rev to replace a cracked SLE on my vented I loaned them for the Rogallo. I'm not positive it was in their hands when it happened. I'm sure they would have responded if asked in that case. When my Reflex Handles started falling apart in the first few months, I posted on their forum and expected a response. I got crickets. Lesson learned, they don't read their own forums. I don't do Facebook. There's a reason that decades long loyalists to Rev, including DEALERS are considering alternatives. The quality has gone down while the prices have increased. Rev has increasingly decided to compete with their retailers to get a bigger piece of every single sale. There is a reasonable expectation of quality in a product with their reputation. Kiting is about having fun, not having exclusivity. Two years ago, this topic would not have even been possible on any forum. If you will be flying Rev's forever then I applaud your brand loyalty. I hope you've stocked up on Non-Green Trimmed rods. You've also answered my question as asked and there are tons of people that agree with you. I like Rev, I like their kites and I have several. I'll personally buy a used Rev in a heartbeat depending on the frame included. At this time though, I'd only consider a new one if it was a Shook Mesh. I'm not against the brand at all.. I'm against some of the more recent changes in the brand. I'll probably have several Revs in my bag forever myself.. like the special ones. Old Glory, My Stack, and even a few others.. After the feedback with the Green Trimmed rods was ignored, I can say that I can't personally justify paying the NEW premium for their baseline product any more. No rod should break in multiple places at the same location every time and on first flight. They've tanked their own product for exclusivity. Their stated purpose for the change was their Rods were getting copied too and this information is First Hand. IMO, change should be for improvements, not for profit. There's a problem and they are ignoring it. If Rev listened to feedback, the screen wear issue would have been solved YEARS AGO. The Spar pockets would have been sealed to deter fraying and the green trimmed rods would have been recalled and replaced. Interestingly, many of the design changes in both Bazzer's Phoenix and the Freilein Exodus are based on public feedback that Rev ignored. It seems Rev is no longer trying to innovate, they seem to be more focused on something new they can patent to protect their price point. .. That's exactly why they released the Reflex.

Only drawback was no online ordering.. Had to call and order.. not a big deal but I might would have purchased other items had I known what was available..

I did indeed.. Great folks to Deal with.. Take advantage of your AKA Membership if you have one..

Sent you some info via PM..

So today i had a short opportunity to fly my new Freilein Vertigo and Vertigo Max kites. Winds were around 8-10 MPH and directions shifting a bit, but i was able to fly both kites for a short period of time. To keep my impressions absolutely fair, I used my handles and lines from my Rev and kept the same handle knot settings initially so it could be a direct comparison.. Disclaimer, This is my opinion and my opinion only.. your Mileage may vary. The Freilein Kites were from the onset initially very brake heavy (like a Paul LeMasters tuning Brake Heavy) but I tuned in the flying line 2 knots and it was very much like what I'm personally more used to for my Revs.. That being said, if i closed my eyes and just felt the sensations through the handles, the Vertigo was extremely close to having my Rev 1.5 sail on the end of the lines. Hovering inverted was very close to the same touch as my Rev sails.. I'm sure someone more in tuned to their kites than me could probably tell a difference but I couldn't. Frame material felt to be somewhere between a 2 and 3 Wrap in stiffness and performance. The LE sleeve on the sail is not oversized and would not accept a SLE frame easily if at all.. I can't see anyone trying in the first place.. Once the wind picked up a bit I changed out the kite to the Vertigo Max. It was at the low end of the wind range for the Max but I wanted to get the sail in the air. Like the Full Sail, I'm sure it would have seemed brake heavy at first if I hadn't adjusted the handles already for the full sail. It didn't fly like a Vented Rev or like a Shook Weave. It flew like something in between. Same basic responsiveness but the feel was more like flying a full sail in lighter wind.. I did like the similarity there though. I did remember to take my Go Pro cameras.. I didn't however remember to install the SD memory so I didn't get footage today.. I will record some soon before I stack out the full sails.. Here's a few pics from the Gallery when I first got them.. More pics and footage soon.. Will post it all here..