DonFibonacci

Thanks for splitting this off. I'm interested in venting, but I mainly I was using it as an example. What really interests me is two things; first, are there any ways that builders "analytically" determine how to improve a design, or is it just experience and experimentation? Like any specific testing? Second, once you've decided to try something new, are there any techniques for seeing how well it might work without building a whole new kite? For example, taping over existing vents? Has anyone ever built a prototype kite specifically to be "adjustable" to make experimentation easier?

From @John Barresi in the original thread: @John Barresi Thanks for the reply! What about the other part of the question - as you're working on a design, are you creating a full new prototype kite for each iteration, or do you try to "hack" an existing prototype as long as possible? For example, I could imagine if you wanted to try less venting, you could tape over existing venting to a certain degree, to try it out. Personally, I find the time and expense of building a new kite just to try an idea pretty daunting and that holds me back... but then, I'm a really slow builder, and it's definitely not my day job, either, as you point out.

@John Barresi (and other builders out there) - this is probably a separate topic, but I'm interested in the design process that goes into, for example, figuring out where and how to vent the MV. Do you just use experience and feel, or is there any measurement/analysis going on to guide the changes you make? How do you decide what new venting to try? At each iteration, do you build a completely new full-size prototype? I'd be interested in any details you're willing to share. I enjoy building kites, but I don't know how to evolve a design to get a desired result. I'm sort of stuck at the point where I know what behavior I'd like to improve, but not how to get there.

I'll take a look after I win and let you know [emoji6] Sent from my Pixel 2 using KiteLife mobile app

Oh, yeah... so close. It's a match in spirit, anyway. Still cool. I wish there were more Icarex colors, but given the choices, grey works better, I think.

Great story. I've never gotten a chance to fly Djinn with others, but I believe it based on flying them all solo. That picture is identical to my collection in colors and types. Not sure why that's so cool... it just is.

Purple is NOT one of my colors - which is perfect because I like having ALL the colors!

Mirror!

I second that - I larks-head the leader to the screw just below the screw head. I would think it would be prone to slipping off otherwise.

Coincidentally, I just got some info that might help. Rev is offering a free travel frame with any kite. Since not all Revs use the same spars nowadays, I asked which spars came with that travel frame. Here's a quote from the answer: "The Standard Travel Frame... fits Rev 1.5 sizes, EXP, Rev 1.5, 1.5 Classic, NYM, B series, and Reflex RX" Sounds like the RX is in fact the standard 1.5 size. It doesn't explicitly mention the "Reflex EXP" but I would guess it's also 1.5-sized.

Agreed. I'm a perfectionist, so I was paralyzed for quite a while by a fear of doing it "wrong". But in the end, I built my first quad just by reading everything I could find on forums like this, closely examining a store-bought kite, buying some fabric on clearance, and then finally just going for it. The end result wasn't perfect, but really only I can tell. And it flies! And I learn more each time I build a new one.

it's not specialized for kites, but I've had good luck with LibreCAD. Plus it's free to download.

I do have a "right handle" marker - a subtle one. But since I didn't even put the handles down, it just never occurred to me to even look at my hands!

Mind blown. Is there a time limit on deciding on the colors? Cause I could easily take a couple weeks. Which is why I still don't have any customs.

Ok, embarrassing story... one day, I was suddenly having all kinds of trouble controlling the kite. It would take off and just turn over straight into the ground. I figured something must have broken. Kite seemed okay- I checked for line snags checked the end caps, bridle knots, measured each side against the other, etc, etc. Everything checked out, but the kite just kept rolling over. Eventually I figured it out... handles in wrong hands! 🤦‍♂️ I had hooked the handles in my elbow to answer a phone call and somehow switched them when I resumed (I know... don't even ask). Sometimes the problem is literally right in front of you...

I had a similar problem when I was pretty new to quad flying. The kite kept spinning to the right. I checked my line lengths (several times). I checked the bridle attachment points, the end caps, everything. I even rotated the lines through all four positions, nothing made any difference. Finally I noticed that I had somehow gotten a knot in one leg of the bridle, snugged right up against the knot that was supposed to be there. Don't ask me how it got there - but once I removed it, everything was back to normal. So if equalizing the lines doesn't help, don't forget to check the bridle...

Do you know any places to fly in Austin? I'm there on business from time to time - next time I'll bring some kites!

I got back into flying in summer 2018 after a couple years off and I was surprised to find I couldn't just order the 1.5B anymore. I scoured online stores and was able to find a full sail and a full vent, but no luck on the mid. Would love to win this one! By the way, the video is by the only other quad flyer I've ever personally met! AND it was shot at the same park as my avatar pic. I feel like that somehow gives me a leg up in this drawing. Also, I clearly need to meet more flyers... ANYONE out there in the Phoenix area??

I second the suggestion of getting a 2-wrap frame for light wind. I'll also add that 50# line is helpful too (at least it seems that way to me 😁). With the lighter frame, though, you'll want to sit out the heavy wind gusts by heading to the edges of the window. If you aren't already using extended top leaders, you'll soon want to. It seems counterintuitive that using less "forward drive" would be a good thing in light wind, but it's true. There's an excellent discussion of the topic here:

I live in Phoenix, and I suspect we get a lot of the same type of wind. First of all... this is exactly right - the more you just get out there and fly, even if the wind's not great, the better you will become, and then the not-so-great wind is much less of an issue. Specifically, there are two big things I've come to embrace. First, even on a good wind day, you can get long periods of almost no wind. At my level, I have two distinct types of flying - one where there's enough wind to provide a little tension in the lines while I'm standing (mostly) still. Now I can hover in all directions, fly in reverse, work on spins, clockwork, etc. Then there's "light wind flying" - when there's not enough wind for all that stuff and I'm having to work to keep the kite flying. JB's tutorial on light wind flying is awesome and made a big difference in my attitude - http://kitelife.com/forum/files/file/633-rev-tutorial-light-wind-flying/. In the past, when the wind dropped, I'd stubbornly try to fly the wind I didn't have. That just led to a lot of getting hot and irritated. Nowadays I keep an open mind about what sort of session I'm going to have - I always have two sets of things I want to practice. When the wind changes modes, I change practice modes and just go with it. Second, don't get locked in to "the wind is coming from THAT direction, so the center of my wind window is in THIS direction". The wind changes direction at least as often as it changes speed. For me, it was important to recognize just how often that happens, to learn to feel it in the kite, and to shift with it. Early on, I'd find myself subconsciously trying to "force" the window to be where it was when I first set up and wondering why my kite just dropped out of the sky. Sounds stupid, I know... maybe it's the engineer in me. I hope that helps.

I guess something didn't work right the first time... NOW I've posted a fake ad for a real kite!

I just added a fake ad for a real kite. I don't see it on the site yet, though - is there an approval process?

I assume we could somehow label them as test ads so that we don't actually have to have something to sell?

Just think of your EXP as the kite you will eventually pass on to the person who learns from you...

Updating to add the new Djinn! Rev EXP Rev 1.5 B Full Rev 1.5 B STD Caicos Quad (aka Peter Powell Omni) Djinn ST Djinn MV (Hot Fade) 5 self-made