RobB

OK, finally got a chance to actually get the Zen in the air... The winds were 2-3mph. I flew the 1.5 full sail Black Race Rods first, and then the Zen. What a difference ! The Zen is much slower, and I can see what everyone is saying about the Zen rods being very springy. Well, this is going to take some getting used to, I usually don't keep a Rev moving, but the Zen seems to need need almost constant motion to stay in the air. And yeah, the Zen is BIG...

Hey Amber... Welcome to the forum ! Sounds like you made a great choice in a first kite, Skyburner makes some quality stuff ! Your lines sound a little short, I would fly the NikNak on 30-50 foot lines, depending on the speed of the wind. 30's should work for super low winds, and 50's would be for winds 3-10mph. You could even use longer lines when the wind gets over 5mph. If the winds are over 3mph, you shouldn't have to move very much, but when it's real low, a few quick steps back upwind will help when the kite needs a little boost. Remember, slow, easy movements... keep your hands together as much as you can. Enjoy ! ~Rob.

Ralph, I have to wonder... which duallie were you flying ? I'm glad there was something in my video that you found helpful. Watching other's videos was one of the ways I learned... that and the core members here answering all the questions I had. Heck, they're still answering my questions, and helping me to get better ! Gavin... Kite Season is rapidly approaching, let me know if you guys want to come out to the Island and fly ! Rick, I might try Diamonds soon, but want to actually get the Zen up & flying before I decide to ring up Rev & order them. I have black race rods in my full sail 1.5 now, I wonder how much of a difference the Diamonds will make.

Wow, sounds like a great time... wish it was a little closer by !

Larry, I hope you play Lotto... you are one lucky guy ! Congrats on scoring that Windbreaker, I have a few & prefer them because they act as their own cleat when you tie off the kite. Just watch when you're winding or unwinding that the handles don't accidentally unscrew & fall out... it's a hair-raising experience!

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Well, you can't go wrong with either the Sea Devil or Fearless. Lam has some new designs out, too. The Transformer II is a little smaller than the Fearless, but just as tricky if not more. The Tekken is another design he came out with recently, I just couldn't get the timing right with that one and gave up after a year of trying. The ATM (Automatic Trick Machine) is his entry level design, it's a little less than $300. I haven't tried the T2 or the ATM, but people rave about them. Here's a sample of the Fearless SUL flying in pretty low winds, but not quite as low as the Sea Devil videos. If you want a Lam kite, all you need to do is give him a call... he'll ask you a bunch of questions about what you fly and how you like to fly, and tailor the build to your needs. PM me for his phone # if you want it.

The Widow Maker can do anything the Sea Devil can. I don't have a WidowMaker UL, but the standard can fly in winds 3-15mph. The UL should be able to fly easily in 2mph winds, and lower with some footwork. You mentioned the Fearless, it is a little more of a trick kite than the SeaDevil...

The Sea Devil & the Fearless are trick oriented kites, while the Vanishing Point is just for flying. It can do some old school tricks like axels & 540s, but is pretty difficult to do anything that involves laying the kite on it's back, like Lazy Susans or Jacob's Ladders. Also, yoyos are probably not going to happen with the VP. Consider the Widow Maker if you're looking for a new kite. You can almost buy a Standard and an UL WidowMaker for the cost of a Fearless, that's pretty good bang for the buck, I think. You Vanishing Point looks like it's in really nice shape, some new APA fittings, and it will be better than new. The Stiletto is also nice looking, is it also an UL ?

The Vanishing Point should be the answer to your frustrations... it can deal with light & swirly wind that you describe. I would try it on 50'-75' lines, and it likes smooth, slow inputs. Feel the pressure on the sail with your fingertips, and remember, any sudden strong inputs will probably pull the kite out of the air. My Vanishing Point... The Box of Tricks and Stranger will be good when the winds are a little higher and solid.

Oh man... sharp things like benches, fences, and trees kinda scare me... always worried about poking the sail. But the big flagpoles or light poles are pretty safe. @Fred... it looks like the wind was ~10-15mph in that video.

I rarely fly on long lines, and when I do, it feels like the kite is stuck in the mud... flying so slow, it feels like the kite is going to fall out of the air. Yes, I still have that panic instinct of trying to keep the kite up at all costs...

One of the spots I fly has a 50+ foot tall flagpole, that's a great object to paste against. Makes the Rev look like a strange flag... I have also had some fun with a park bench...

Wow, I hope to have that kind of control someday ! Good looking kites, too.

I like... My bag is light on gliders... this would be perfect !

Good info... the kite doesn't like to hold positions & just keep moving. I am going to have to change the way I fly on four lines. I am not a big input flyer, but I do like to stop, rotate, then go again, stop, slide, rotate, fly again... so, no stop, just fly. Now this whole thing about the frame... do the verts make any difference, or do I need to just swap out the leading edge ?

Could someone explain the 'Zen' frame ? What is it aimed at ? As light weight as possible ? What does changing to a hybrid frame do for you ? Other than being stiffer, does the bottom end wind range benefit or suffer ? @Rob... if you had caught me out in the field that day, I may have gone for that swap. Being that we have m-a-y-b-e 10 days a year when the wind is this low, I don't know if an indoor Rev would be the kite for me. This was the kind of day that a glider would've been the best choice out of the bag. The ProDancer is very close to a glider in it's bottom wind range, but a glider would win out in the end. a quote from the SkyBurner website...

Cool Hyperkite (?) stacks ! Thanks for the picture of the Berk 4d. I'm surprised Tom still has any of those left, they were pretty. The Berk Rev you had pictured looks just like mine, only the pattern is purple. I wonder if it's from a new batch...

The Prodancer gives up a lot to be able to fly in those winds easily. It's fragile & twitchy, and really difficult to get any tricks out of. It is what I consider the 'gold standard' of true SUL duallies. Yes, better than the Prism Vapor in ease of flying in ultra-low winds. A Rev Indoor might be a more fair comparison. I had the Zen flying, using the rowing motion, flying back & forth, gaining altitude, but as soon as I stopped, I couldn't hold a position for more than a second. The kite slipped down, and either needed motion to stay in the air, or it would just fall to the ground. In about a month, when it starts to cool off, running around won't be so bad... but right now.... uggghh ! Too Hot ! I am looking forward to the next 2 mph day so I can see what the big Quad can really do.

You need to fly a Prodancer before making that judgement... I would've been running all over the place trying to fly the Sea Devil SUL. I could've flown the Zen, and I did... but just didn't want to work so hard. Sunday is a day for rest !

What was the Prism 'Berkeley Special' this year ? Dying to know...

I have been trying to learn to fly in lighter winds with a Rev, and have gotten better. I fly the 1.5 with the race rods down to maybe 3 mph on the 65' lines. I was able to get the Zen up & flying in these < 1 mph breezes, but only for short bursts. Still working on the technique, it's a little different than dual line light wind technique. One of the best ways I've found to learn light wind technique is to fly the Mid-Vent or Full Vent in winds at the bottom of their range. To give a better idea of the low wind, I got a little video of the ProDancer flying around.

Yup, left the Zen sitting there to threaten the wind from coming back ! No, I really hoped to get some air time on that four liner ! It was hot, like 85* and I didn't feel like running around too much. I got the Zen to fly, but hovers, clockwork turns, even slides were a struggle. The biggest problem is probably my biased opinion of 4 vs.2, but I swear, it was 10x the work to keep the Zen in the air. I am so happy that I have a 4 line kite that will fly in 2-5 mph wind without the kind of work that I had to put into my 1.5 Black race kite, but I had hoped that it would go a little lower, into ProDancer territory, and pull me away from duallies even more. The scary thing is, I've been flying so much 4 line kite that I am noticeably rusty when I actually do get the duals out !

So, I got my light wind Rev, with the hopes of being able to fly in the same wind my Prodancer SUL flies in. Disappointed... I mean, I could get the Zen to fly, but not easily... moved over to the dual lines, off & flying. The Zen is promising, but seems to need at least 2 mph of wind to fly the way I expected. Unfortunately, today was offering 1mph max ! The Zen sure is pretty in the sky, though... even though it's blue.

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