Dave362 Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Hi all, asking for help on this one...... I've seen all the tutorials but this one still gives me fits. Sometimes I think I've just about got it and then it goes south. Any advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 This move still eludes me too, reading with interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Think of it as a flat one-and-a-half axel? I watched a couple of vids and it kind of looks like a Rev axel allowed to go another 1/2 rotation. Damn, I got to get my duals out of the bag sometime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 There is a Taz tutorial on YouTube by DPmama74 "Taz Machine Tutorial". Randy has a heap of 2 line tutes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave362 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Mark, you are correct. The problem is the second input. I think a big issue for me is the timing of the second input, and that it seems kite specific. SparkieRob, thanks for the tip. I've studied all the tutorials and still can't get any consistency, so I figured I'd put it up for discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyclad01 Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 The Taz machine and 540 elude me as well. Like Dave, I have a hard time finding the correct timing of the 2nd input. I try to keep an eye on the spine and nose when I do that 2nd input, but the timing for it is so quick that im either a second too late or a second too soon. Not in English, but some very lovely examples 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave362 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Thanks, Brian, for getting these up to discuss. When interpreting these tutorials it seems the second pull happens with the nose away and the above the tail from the flyers perspective. I've found that timing too early. When I have had success with this move it has been by waiting until the nose has gone past center and is coming around. I find the slot much easier because the second input is with the same hand, and happens very soon after the first input. The first input for the slot almost feels like a setup move for the second in that the second input feels like it bounces off the first. if that makes any sense.... In the Taz, since the wing doesnt change direction, it feels like the second input could happen anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave362 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 there is also the issue in the Taz of slack management as the input hands alternate. So If I Fly left to right and initiate with the left hand (top wing) when I make the second input with the right hand I might not be getting enough slack into the left line during the second input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyclad01 Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Thats my problem with not giving enough slack. When I do that first input (as if doing a half axel), im too used to tugging on both lines when the nose is pointed away to bring the kite into a fade position. It's a hard habit to break when that second input is meant for only one line and not both, as im used to doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave362 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 hmmm. I just watched these again. Both Martin and Randy highlight the nose high position as key. for the second input. Maybe I'm not letting the kite go flat enough after the half axel to get the nose up? ahhhhh.... I need to practice....... Still looks to me like they're pulling the second input just after the nose has come around past center. Anybody else see this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyclad01 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Still looks to me like they're pulling the second input just after the nose has come around past center. Anybody else see this? That would make sense. It would be the best way to get the kite to spin. I think if you pulled the line when the nose is center (or just before center) you would just be pulling the nose down into a dive position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave362 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 I got it!!!!!!!!!!!!! Went out today and figured it out. I got it numerous times in both directions, enough to feel I've gone through the door, rather than just got lucky. Sorry for the upcoming detailed explanation, but I feel it might help someone like me who had seen the tutorials, knew the inputs and still couldn't get it. FIrst, if you truly get that orientation, nose above the tail when away, you have plenty of leeway in the timing for the second input. Trouble was, I never saw it because my half axel was lame. The little setup move everyone describes regarding the lower wing before hitting the half axel isnt absolutely needed for some moves. You can hit a good cascade without it, half axel to fade, etc. But for the Taz, that setup move really helps to get a good, authoritive half axel which will flatten the kite out and get it into the proper orientation. Its easy, for me, to get a little lazy sometimes....even though a good setup always helps. BTW, you can pull the lower wing toward you or push the upper wing away. Either works fine. Also, Don't get carried away trying to "pop" it, ar make a big deal out of it. The goal is just to have the executing wing back a bit, Just like how they used to teach Axels back in the day. Read an old trick kite book Like Gomberg's excellent Stunt Kite Magic if you want to know what I mean. Once I was using crisp, energetic half axels, the kite always went to the proper orientation. The second input was easy from that orientation, and uncovered my second and final error: not folling the second input with enough slack. I started taking a step toward the kite after the second input. Instantly, the kite completed a beautiful flat spin, just like in the videos! I did it a bunch of times in both directions, just to be sure I had it So to summarize, 1. Use the setup move for the half axel. 2. watch for the proper orientation, nose above the tail, spine pointing right at you. 3. Make the second input a smooth pull from tension, just like in a backsin., otherwise you'll pull the kite out of the air. 4. Immediately after the second input, push the executing hand toward the kite and take a step forward. 5. Big grin! 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Good, now I can hire you for lessons. lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave362 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 ok, let's look at this..... When you took the lines of that JJF the first day at Ocean shores, you did a turn, and the mood of the whole beach changed. A TURN!!!!!!!! I think we'll leave the lessons with you for now.......... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 I love you too, man. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 ok, let's look at this..... When you took the lines of that JJF the first day at Ocean shores, you did a turn, and the mood of the whole beach changed. A TURN!!!!!!!! I think we'll leave the lessons with you for now.......... The mark of the great is to inspire greatness in others. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Well, I think credit is due to many of the active members of this forum... I see y'all inspire your colleagues everyday. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyclad01 Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 1. Use the setup move for the half axel. 2. watch for the proper orientation, nose above the tail, spine pointing right at you. (if you truly get that orientation, nose above the tail when away, you have plenty of leeway in the timing for the second input) 3. Make the second input a smooth pull from tension, just like in a backspin., otherwise you'll pull the kite out of the air. 4. Immediately after the second input, push the executing hand toward the kite and take a step forward. 5. Big grin! Thanks to the explanation of step #2, I was finally able to do my first sets of Taz Machines! My problem this whole time was that I was watching the spine instead of the nose, and because of that, I ended up with the kite in a flat position by the time I went to do the 2nd input, thus pulling the nose down instead of spinning the kite. So it just took me a few tries to get it right because right as you do the 2nd input, you have to take a few steps forward at the same time to give slack to the opposite line to allow the kite to rotate all the way around. I would have to say that the key for doing the Taz Machine is step #2 - keeping an eye on the nose, making sure its higher than the tail of the kite to get a proper spin, and making sure to give enough slack with the other line at the same time so it can do a full rotation. Once you get that down, then doing a Taz machine is a piece of cake. Now I just need to keep practicing it so I can give it a cleaner look when I do it, because even though I can do one, its still a little sloppy. The main thing is I can now do a Taz Machine! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydub200 Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Not sure I would ever describe the Taz Machine as a piece of cake. I spent a whole year of my kiting life trying to crack this trick and eventually parked it for a year or two before coming back to it and succeeding. It is a trick that is very kite dependent and for some reason is easier on ULs than standards. Several years later, I sill don't have as high a success rate with the Taz as I would like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyclad01 Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 I was wondering how much of it depends on the kite. This time I was flying my Mohawk XS, and it tends to over steer really easily. Next time, ill have to try it with my 1st gen Mohawk which doesnt really over steer at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 I have to agree with JD... I've spent months trying to crack particular tricks (axel, 540). Months of frustration and not really having too much fun flying. Strange thing, the more I focus on doing a move, the less likely I am to get it. Sure, it's a great feeling when you finally do get it, and that's probably what makes dual line flying so addictive in the long run. I'm happy for you guys, I know that feeling, and I'm sure you're flying high right now ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave362 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Rob, I appreciate your insights and thank you for all you've tought me on here. I thnk everyone responds to and learns from different methodologies. I also think we all probably fly for different reasons. For me, the skill building and breaking things down into smaller events to practice are what I get the most fun out of. For others, it might be the poetry. One of the coolest things about kiting is all these different approaches are awesome. And whats really interesting is most find their own way to what they are looking for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Don't get me wrong, I can't wait until the day I can do a Taz or a Slot machine on purpose. For me, they come out by accident... in a split second, I recognize that I've somehow gotten into the setup for a trick, and with a lucky tug, something cool comes out. If I think about the setup... boom ! Probably ends up looking pretty ugly. Tricks that I've really learned I can pull off at any time, either direction. I think my major challenge is dyslexia, for example, I can point which way to go, but if you ask me to say it, 9 times out of 10, I'll tell you the opposite (wrong answer). This causes a lot of wasted time over-thinking things, and when you're flying, that usually means the answer is too late. I'm going to study up & give this a try the next time out, thank you for taking the time to spell it out, and I am truly happy for you & your success ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave362 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Thanks, Rob. I wish I could pull of half the things you do, especially the presentation and flow. Maybe someday.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyclad01 Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 Apparently this trick, like many others, is heavily kite dependent. Today, I started off with my 1st get Mohawk which doesn't over steer and does cascades and jacobs ladders extremely well, but for the life of me, couldn't get it to do a Taz Machine at all. Actually I was able to get one, but just barely, it was very sloppy with a slow spin. A little later, I switched to my 2nd get Mohawk, and that one really loves to spin. Even pulling a little too hard on a half axel will cause it to spin. I don't know if its due to this Mohawk over steering easily, or if its the design of the kite itself. I'm sure someone else will be able to chime in and provide a little more insight on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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