Big kite that likes small inputs?

[Zuul]

I haven't been flying a lot for the last ... ahem ... decade?  <sigh. feeling old>  At the time I would have considered myself a solid intermediate at best.  Now it seems like the only thing I can consistently do is axle and not crash (much).  Hopefully I'll be flying more again, and want to progress as quickly as I can.  I have some great kites in my collection.  I have kites that can DO all the tricks, but I'm not convinced they are the most conducive to learning tricks.  I only have one full-size kite.  Most are typical 3/4 size (1.8- 2.1 meter).  I've just always "connected" more with smaller kites.  I've given it some thought and I think that's because big arm movements don't come naturally to me.

So, is there a kite out there that has the big-kite-benefits but takes small-kite-inputs?  Does that make sense?  Something slower and smoother that I don't have to flail?

[RobB]

Lam kites are designed for what you describe.

 

[Zuul]

Good to know.  Lam’s kites have a great reputation (both for high quality and high price).  Is there a decoder ring that compares all the models currently available?  They all seem very similar.

[Wayne Dowler]

Are you on FaceBook? He is posting there pretty regularly, I would try contacting him directly. He should be able to help you in your search.

[Breezin]

I fly my 3/4 kites a lot. Love the speed and fast recoveries when failing. Plus my Psycho will trick in 25 mph winds. At least I think it does. Kite moves so fast at times I'm not sure what it's doing 😲.Lam kites could probably be compared to a Ferrari. Most will never use the full potential but man it's nice knowing it's there. When I'm on nothing I've flown or have is in the same league. I was a bit bummed when I 1st got my Mind Trick vented and AC SUL. Nothing magical happened and as a novice at best are somewhat difficult to learn.Knew it was me and my 3 Lams have upped my game big time.Pricey but worth it to me. I'll be getting another.The ones I have are similar in feel/inputs but fly and trick quite differently. Lam has very strong opinions on kite design. When talking about other kites keep in mind he's trying to educate about what he has learned. If you have a kite you love and bring it up you might get offended. Good luck in proving him wrong LOL. Lam is always tweaking something and he'll share for the most part if you ask.Although I consider him a master flier/builder I've gotten the impression he still learns from newbies.Talk to him and he'll probably try to decode you.My ITW Hydra I think is close to what you're describing. Really dig it especially for the ITW sale price. Mines beat to hell but still flies well. If getting one beef up the outer battens. Kite loves roll ups but they'll push the battens thru the bottom of the pocket. I fly in a rough pasture and the TE has worn thru in a couple places. Kite would benefit a lot from installing a trick line. Just remember to not make it to tight changing the angle on the wingtips.Yoyo stops are sharp and with a lot of use will cut the bridles leaders. Easy to change out or remove. Mods would take a 1/2 hour and cheap to do.I think the Benson Superfly is similar to the Hydra but that's a guess.I'll let ya know shortly 😊.

[Zuul]

@BreezinEverything I've read says the Superfly is a bit manic and requires quick reactions to get the best out of it.  If you like the Psycho, I'm sure you'll have no trouble enjoying it.  I think it's rather on the opposite end of the spectrum from what I'm currently looking for.  The Supernova is the bigger, slower cousin, and I'm guessing even that is more of an extreme trickster in the grand scheme.  I could definitely be wrong, though!

[Breezin]

Could be something more like the Skyburner Solus is what you're after. From reading only I think it's inputs would still not be what you're after.Tell us more about the kites you have.Since GWTW has left us the library here needs to grow 😊.Flew a couple hours this morning. Winds were bumpy as all get out hitting the low 20s at times.Those bumbies wear me out pretty quick. I've flown all my standards in that stuff but the only one that does well is the Mind Trick vented. The nitro framed kites will squirt away. The buffeting winds make the others twist and turn making control difficult at best. All get blown out of the sky nearing the edge. The pull on the Nitros can come on sudden giving quite the yank if not braced for it.Took me along time to learn to anticipate. The MT is probably a 1/3 slower in 15. It's smoother power gives the impression of 1/2 the pull. The smaller needed inputs would make ya think it's harder to control in higher winds. Not the case for me at all. It's a huge plus when going over 25. I've had the kite for over a year. Tough as all get out. It'll fly in 4 and I can trick it from 5 to 25. It's been in 40 but over 30 is kinda stupid. That's Delta Hawk stuff for now.Although it's been a difficult kite for me to learn out of my quiver it would be the very last to go without a doubt. Never flown a Mamba.My guess is the inputs are long and smooth guiding ones like my Mongoose. My Lam kites are very different with lots of moves being done with my fingers or the snap of a wrist. AC and Tekken will axle and 1/2 axle with a flick of the wrist when the timing is right. I've not had the AC long and because of winds it doesn't get out much. The more I fly it the more my technique is changing on all my kites. Don't have my finger completely on it yet but I'm becoming more patient and seeing things better. With your past I think you'd learn a Lam kite a lot faster than me. Ain't been doing this as long as you but I do have some  Old School Condors and Skynasauers that have helped shape my opinions LOL.Ask Lam about a light vented.Drink the Kool Aid dude. It ain't half bad.

[Zuul]

6 hours ago, Breezin said:

Tell us more about the kites you have.

Oh no.  This could take a while.....  😝

[Zuul]

AeroStar
    Sano SS  - What can you say? One of the great ones.

Benson
    MiniGem

Beuna Vista
    Laguna (sold)

Blue Moon
    Mako - One of my favorites, but limited trick potential.
    Mamba - Wanna love it, but don’t.  Should probably fly it more.  I’d like a stiffer frame.

Flexfoil
    Psycho

HQ
    Breeze (sold) - Yuck … who approved this for production?

Level One
    Amazing
    Black Jack (sold)
    Easy Light
    Easy Vent
    Level Two (sold)

New Tech
    Dynamite (gifted)

Prism
    Alien
    Elixir (sold) - Needed smoother inputs than I could offer.  Felt floppy to me.

R-Sky
    Frenezy
    Krystal FX

Seattle Airgear
    Skydance 2 - least tricky kite EVER 🤣

SkyBurner
    Wahoo - getting it to fade is practically impossible

[Wayne Dowler]

Looking over your list:

Wouldn't the R-Sky and Level One kites do everything you want? 

i'll preface my post by saying I mostly fly quads, but this winter picked up a Hydra (on sale @ ITW). I missed the transition from one trick at a time to the slack line stuff of today, (stroke kept me grounded). so I really don't understand the thought of "big kite with small kite inputs"? Every kite is unique in how it handles, even among the quads. Yes, the basics remain the same, but every kite has its own personality. It's why us fliers go through so many til we find what works for us. 

I'd suggest getting some of those out and give them a fly. See if they don't work for you -  you might be pleasantly surprised!!

[Zuul]

1 hour ago, Wayne Dowler said:

Wouldn't the R-Sky and Level One kites do everything you want? 

Absolutely those kites are completely capable of every trick out there ... well, the R-Sky, anyway.  The Sano, too.  There are people on this forum that could make them dance.  I'm having a little trouble progressing with them, though, and I'm suspicious that they might just be a bit too fast in their reactions.  So a bigger, slower kite that still suits the way my hands are programmed might good to have in the bag.

....or I just need to spend a few hours with John B. 🤔   But that's a lot harder, logistically!

[midibot]

On 8/11/2019 at 8:35 PM, Zuul said:

[...]

So, is there a kite out there that has the big-kite-benefits but takes small-kite-inputs?  Does that make sense?  Something slower and smoother that I don't have to flail?

Nirvana.  

A classic.

It is big(ger), slower, and very capable. Arm movements more middle-ish perhaps.

Wide range of models to suit your preferences in wind. Several variants over the years, but if you can get ahold of one to fly (assuming you haven’t already) it might work for you.

I, too, came back to kiting in the last couple of years and that was a kite that I had heard of and decided to try. Quite precise, yet capable of teaching me some moves without too many moments of "what the heck just happened there". Not overly sensitive or jumpy. There is a place for those… but it is sometimes nice to just Slow. It. All. Down. 

Anyways, that is a thought. 

Ymmv.

 .

[Palmahnic]

I suggest the Sixth Sense. Middle ish inputs, very forgiving, open source so normally would be cheaper. Big and slow. 

[Zuul]

19 hours ago, Palmahnic said:

 

I suggest the Sixth Sense. Middle ish inputs, very forgiving, open source so normally would be cheaper. Big and slow. 

 

Wow.  Now that’s interesting.  I’ve been thinking about building a 6th, just because.  I hadn’t really considered that it would fill the “bigger slower” slot in my collection.  I was also considering a [Return] but I don’t know how it compares    

 

[Breezin]

Man there's a few kites on that list I'd love to fly. Thought a lot about getting a Krystal and Amazing. Mini Gems just look so cool. Krijn and Kareloh in Holland have made some over the top 6th sense builds.Icky TV has some nice videos and contact info.They can sew some mighty nice sails for you to frame out. Even though I had bigger kites when starting everything came easier on my 3/4 kites.Fun, fun,fun. Well except for the seeing and understanding part LOL.Looking at your list we may have a similar learning curve. Due to a lot of lightning this summer I haven't done much higher wind flying. Winds smoothed out some and flew the Mongoose for a couple more hours Monday. 12 to 18 mph that kite IS NOT slow.Grounded yesterday and the winds were pretty sweet.SUCKED!!! I couldn't move very well  LOL.

[Palmahnic]

4 hours ago, Zuul said:

Wow.  Now that’s interesting.  I’ve been thinking about building a 6th, just because.  I hadn’t really considered that it would fill the “bigger slower” slot in my collection.  I was also considering a [Return] but I don’t know how it compares    

 

The return is much smaller, but and then should be faster or at least more agile, haven't made one myself. I did make two SS, regular and a 95% one, both are incredible kites, in their own way. 

[Zuul]

8 minutes ago, Palmahnic said:

The return is much smaller, but and then should be faster or at least more agile, haven't made one myself. I did make two SS, regular and a 95% one, both are incredible kites, in their own way. 

95% doesn't seem like a very big reduction.  The difference was really noticeable?  In what way?

[Palmahnic]

23 hours ago, Zuul said:

95% doesn't seem like a very big reduction.  The difference was really noticeable?  In what way?

It's quite noticeable, to the point where the kite changes flight characteristics. Some tricks I found much easier on the 95%, such as Crazy Copter and Yo-Fade, also the Taz is different. The kite is a little faster, which is expected, and lighter on the lines, needs lighter inputs too, but it's less forgiving. It's one of the 3 kites to come out of my bag regularly. 

[Steve R]

What size would be considered a 3/4 kite?


Sent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app

[midibot]

I am somewhat Old School, but to me a 'full size' stunt kite might be in the eight foot range, although there is plenty of variation a few inches either side of that, mostly less.

Not sure it is a defined term, but to me a three quarter would be in the 6 to possibly approaching 7 foot range.  Examples: Benson Matchbox (~76"), possibly Prism Fanatic (~72"), Flexifoil Psycho (~78"), and more modern kite: Level One Reloaded (specs say 77"). OP and others will have other examples.

That said, there are six to seven footers that fly 'big' and vice-versa.

.

[Zuul]

Midi has it pretty well covered.  A full size kite got its name because each leading edge is made of 2 full length spars (arrow length) giving a roughly 8 foot span.   A 3/4 kite is made using one full spar and one half spar for a roughly 6 foot span.  The leading edges are made of 3 spars total instead of 4 ... 3/4 kite.  

[Zuul]

Just wanted to follow up.  I was able to trade for a Sky Sport ATM by Lam.  I've only had about an hour of flying time, and the wind was at the top of, or above, the range for a standard, but I think I'm really going to like it.  Thanks RobB for the suggestion.

On 8/12/2019 at 7:10 AM, RobB said:

Lam kites are designed for what you describe.

It seams to be a little finicky to fade, but it locks into a turtle like nothing else I've flown.  I wonder if a tad less spine weight might balance it better, but I'll fly it as it is for a while before experimenting.

[Palmahnic]

If you've got the standard, you're already carrying there about 35 grams, which is a lot for any kite... I took out the end brass weight on mine, and it performed better for me. 

[RobB]

Glad to hear that the Lam kite is working for you. I have flown a number of his kites, but only have ULs and SULs in my bag right now. The Sea Devils are good all-arounders, a little old-school, and the Fearless can do anything I know how to do. Lam says that he designs his kites for smaller inputs, because he is a smaller guy and is more about the finesse.