Brettgrant99

I'm in.

Well, clearly I should stop making assumptions. The last set of handles that I bought weren't just bent rods with handle foam and end caps. Not sure that I would pay $57 for those shown on the website and they aren't even finished. Of course if you are new, and don't have any handles, well, not much choice there. They are even more challenging with no handles.

I was thinking that an experienced dual line flyer trying out quads would have much more trouble with the new hand motions than to worry about what is essentially fine tuning. With a new kite, well I am assuming that it is new, flying with the factory setting should be fine to get the basics down. I was just trying to say that he could start out without leaders, and then add them later.

Not sure why there are 5 posts on this, but every forum software is different. I really wouldn't bother with leaders until you have some basics down. Take a look at some of the pinned posts. Check out this one Much more important to make sure all four lines are the same length, and they will stretch if they are new. CHECK THIS FIRST. I bought a brand new HQ Mojo, and one line was 15 inches different than the others.

Don't forget about looking at used kites, or asking if someone wants to sell some beginner kites. There can be issues with used kites, but I've bought quite a few with no issues. I acquired a Benson Outerspace for $85 last month, so deals do exist. I've found a few more this last month from estate sales. Once I go though all of mine, I may have one that I could sell to you, although most of the ones in this last batch are really old school (early 90's). I'll let you know. Any kite clubs in your area? I've been able to fly a lot of different type of kites at gatherings. I would certainly go for a full size kite. Good Luck

I bought a bunch of kites off of OfferUp. The guy wouldn't really let me take a look at them, he just wanted them gone, so most of them are a mystery to me. Most were big single line kites. I posted some pictures of last weekend at Whidbey Island on GWTW, so check them out. As a teaser, the last kite that we pulled out wasn't a single line, and one corner was signed.

I am not that familiar with Oregon. For something new, my family rented a cabin in Fort Stevens State Park over New Years. We enjoyed it. The cost was minimal, but this was during the winter. We were walking distance (1 mile) from the beach. My kids (19 - 13) spent a fair amount of time jumping off of the dunes and exploring the fort. However, they enjoy that kind of thing over Disneyland type attractions. It was dead still most of the time that we were there, so I didn't bother to fly anything. I can sit on a beach and watch the waves for hours, I know that not everyone is like that. There were also things to do in Astoria, and of course, the other Oregon beaches are nearby. Eastern Oregon has high desert, so it is completely different. Klamath Falls was pretty windy, but gusty. That was so long ago, I think that I only had the Trlby Stack. I don't think that I would do Ashland during the Shakespeare Festival, but I tend to avoid crowds and Shakespeare.

I would say that Marc was going for "artistic" handles. They are similar to frame on the deca, in that their were pultruded carbon rods that were kept under tension by the bridle line that you see. It has been a while since I looked at one. The foam handle keeps everything together. I flew a Deca 15 in heavier wind, and it was uncomfortable because as the kite pulls more, you can feel it in your hand. I believe that they were really made for flying kites indoors and allowed you to adjust how much throw you had. You could use them has a winder, too. They were no different than a straight handle for flying capability.

The Deca that I had, included the standard handles, and the X handles. Not sure that is the actual name of them, but that at least one person on the web is calling them that. Here is a link to what they look like. Symmetrical, but you could change the throw pretty easily. The handles were pretty cool looking, but I remember that they were a pain to store. With all of those swagged on blocks they caught on everything. Lines, bags, sweaters, shirts, etc. Maybe I just don't know how to use quad handles.

I didn't say that I didn't think that a kite is an airfoil. Sorry I wasn't clear enough.

Thanks for your description, I can picture what you are saying now. I don't think that I would have called it belly, but I don't have any other better term for it. I'm not entirely convinced that the belly adds lift. While I understand what you say about power, from a modeling standpoint, I am not sure of how "power" is defined (I am not asking you to define it, either) and how it relates to belly. A more flexible frame would typically be lighter too. And I am sure that windspeed plays a very important part, too.

So to give some of my background, I spent fifteen years as a rocket scientist :). I did navigation and simulation. I often had to deal with aerodynamicists, so I understand a bit about the field, but not everything. I did ask them about aero models for stunt kites, and basically none exist. I am sure that someone, somewhere has studied it, but the guys that I asked weren't aware of any. Of course, they were more interested in airplanes and missiles and rockets. Back to the point. I highly, disagree with you assertion that the same principles apply to kites. That is simply just too generic of a statement. They do apply to some kites, some of the time. I don't think that they apply to stunt kites while in the center of the "wind window". At this location, the kite has an extreme angle of attack. It isn't flying like the model of an airfoil described in clean, laminar flow. Rather the kites is like a flat plate, perpendicular to the airflow. The different NACA airfoil shapes are for use in particular situations. Which one is most efficient? Depends upon the situation. I guess that was the basis of my question. I assumed (a terrible word, so many issues with assumptions) a few things about your question. Typically, when one talks about airfoils, they generally talk about the cross sections of an airfoil. On a sailboat, the cross section that is typically spoken about and illustrated is the one that is roughly parallel to the boom. I assumed that you were speaking about a vertical cross section, from your description. After reading Wayne's response on what belly is, it is clear that he is talking about a horizontal cross section. Here, vertical is in the direction of gravity, and horizontal is parallel to the flying field's surface. I assumed that you were thinking of the nice, laminar flow style diagram that can be seen in many places that describe setting a sail properly. With this in mind, I total agree that the spars being in the back, with that vertical cross section in mind, seem "funny", and that a smoother, laminar shape would be created by having the spars in front of the sail. So I saw this as a question, why does the rev fly when the sail shape is not what I expect it to be from my sailing experience? My response was to get you to think about the question. In a kite, what is an efficient sail shape? Are they the same for all kites? Is a shape for a kite that is effective, the same as for an airplane or a boat? Do a boat and an airplane and a kite all fly the same way? I hope that you can look at my answer and at least think about it a little bit. I don't mind more technical discussion. My original question stands, "What is an efficient shape?". For all of this talk, I do agree with Wayne (and I am sure that others will echo the same or similar advice):

Would you elaborate on point #1? What do you mean "forms a pocket for the wind between them"? If your background is sailing, I agree with the original poster that the spars in front make more sense. However, the Rev was basically designed as a flat kite, so I agree that spars basically are there to hold the sail flat. On point number 4, the question of "belly" really confuses me. I got my first rev in 95 or 96. I don't remember anyone talking about belly, even up in the early 2000's. I got out of kiting for quite a while, and now it seems like all the talk is about frames. Is there a discussion about what belly is? With the flat sail of the Rev, the only way to create belly, as a sailor would think of it, in the sail would be by shortening the vertical spars. If the vertical spars are really flexible, than they could create it.

#1 - Foil is a very generic term. What is an "efficient" shape? #2 - The expensive kites paid for the initial development, the cheaper ones are basically copies. #3 - Revs tend to not have many kites adjustments. It seems like with quads, most people adjust the handles and the upper/lower line lengths. A quad like the TC Ultra had quite a few more. Many dual line stunt kites have lots of adjustments. My Utopia has many different adjustments, more than many kites. I could probably configure it over a 100 different ways (I've never bothered to count). #4 - Many Blue Moon Kites were made with broadseaming. These were dual line kites. I have many additional and expansive opinions, but I will keep them to myself at this time.

A quick scrolling of the post, and my name jumped out at me. Took me a moment to see that it was misspelled. And then I realized that it had nothing to do with me, just an odd coincidence. Now if I could just understand the migrant nature of the thread ...

Through an odd series of events, I will find myself at Fort Stevens, OR, over the New Year's holiday. I was wondering if it was possible to fly on the parade ground of the fort, or at the beach. Of course, winter weather may be an issue, but I won't worry about that. Thanks, Brett

I don't consider myself in the tech industry, but I have worked at software development in the past. Mostly on dangerous flying objects, but now I work on trucks.

I've had Rev's and the mojo. They fly quite differently. I like the Mojo (other than the name. I always think of the Blue Moon Kite). That being said, I would not recommend it for a beginner. It rotates quite quickly. It reminds me the most of a Shockwave, but without the forward speed. I haven't had a chance to fly it in steady winds to see if it can be "tuned". I got all of my Revs used. There are issues with that, but it did keep the costs down.

I've always been interested in kites. The first kite that I remember was a Jolly Roger Diamond that my dad bought somewhere, that didn't really fly that well. It didn't come with a tail, and my dad insisted it needed a tail to fly right. I was probably 6 or 7 at the time. As many things in youth, kite flying was kind of sporadic. I can remember flying in the spring and tying new spools of strings to winders letting single strings fly high. In reality, probably only a thousand feet of string total, but a very vivid memory and I remember doing it multiple times. My biggest concern was missing the corner light post. Late 80's while on a family vacation to Pismo Beach, California, my father bought a 3 stack of Trlby's. That was a lot of fun, but as kids, I had 4 younger siblings, we somehow twisted the two lines in a massive ball of nastiness. I think that we simply bought a new lineset. In the mid 90's, I got married, and we bought a 4 stack of Trlby's, which I still have. I acquired my first quad, a Rev Backtracker, because it was all I could afford. And I bought it used. By this time, I was in Seattle, and my 8 month pregnant wife would stand out at the end of the lines an throw it up, because I had no idea on how to launch it. We eventually ended up in the Bay Area, and that is where the real kite flying began. I hooked up with a bunch of the "Baylads" and ended up meeting a lot of the GWTW forum members. I acquired a few kites. I had a lot of fun. The Bay Area is an expensive place to live, and I ended up in Tucson, AZ, where, in my humble opinion, it had to be the suckiest place to fly in the world. It was like sucking on hairdryer, but with only 2-4 mph wind, and the ground so rough, it made a Bag of Glass seem like the smoothest sand. Plus avoiding anything that would bite, sting, or infect your at the same time. From a kite flying perspective, it was terrible. I got rid of most of my collection, mostly because it saddened me to have all these lovely kites hidden in my closet. Now I am back in Seattle. I was in the Netherlands for a short two months, and my wife bought me an HQ Mojo quadline kite as a surprise while we were at the beach. Not my first choice, but it reignited a spark to get back into it. I am looking over my remaining kites and fixing them up. A few I have manage to take flying. The difficult time that I am having now is finding someplace to fly that is easy and close to home. I didn't know how good I had it when I lived 2 miles from Baylands Park in Sunnyvale. Any questions or comments are welcome. Brett A list of my current kites, all of which are old school: Tricktail Std, Vented, & UL. FlyingWings Utopia, Winddance3, Prism Adrenaline, Trlbys, HQ Mojo, and the Rev Backtracker.