New advanced Rev tutorial video...

[John Barresi]

Hi guys,

Just got off the phone with Lolly at Revolution, and we're both agreed that it's high time Revolution released another, more up to date advanced flying video for Revolution Kites... With this in mind, I'd like ya'll to give me ideas on some of the things you'd like to learn from such a video.

What we've got so far...

Equipment:

• Line length adjustment

• Handle lengths

• Handle adjustments

• Using different rods and sails

• Introduction to spar types, and interchanging them

• Tensioning the kite (bungees)

Flying techniques:

• Clockwork turns

• Inverted hover

• Side slides (inverted and upright)

• Reverse flight

• Light/zero wind flying

• High wind flying

Exotic styles:

• Flic flacs & axels

• 3D flying (toss, catch)

• Dogstaking

• One handed flying

Please, be specific about what else you want to see... Single-topic items, that I can work on, one at a time.

I'm guessing, if all goes well, we'd be releasing this video later in the year or at the 2008 KTAI trade show.

Production of the video will take some time (filming, editing, etc)... I could really use your help here, so post your ideas!

[ant man]

john all of the above plus i would like to see if this new rev will do some slack line tricks if that could be included it would help have a section for beginner fliers and one for experts that will help with the diffrent levels of fliers thet will purchase the new kite i would think

[cerfvoliste]

That sounds great John, can't wait.

How about some disscusion of

Line length adjustment

Handle length

Using different rods and sails

Hi Ho

Rx

[mdilucca]

Great idea John! Some indoors flying techniques will be also very useful. BTW your latest tango indoor flying in Argentina showed some truly amazing flying stuff! WOW. I guess the music helped you right!

Cheers

Mario

[Quad KiT]

• The Toss
  
• Flip Flopping (I saw video of S. Tinkham doing it in the AKA 06 MMB)
  
• Drop from overhead catch
  
• How to set up a stack
  
• Video explanation of your handle knot system
  
• One handed manuevers
  

What is important to me is being able to see the flyer just as much as the kite. I like the Powerblast video because it uses two cameras to show you both the kite and the flier. I would love to see a third camera drilled in on the handles.

Don't forget a bloopers section, those are awesome!

Also can you hide an easter egg on the DVD so only the people who know the code can find the special footage?

[monkey]

Just wait, there will be a bloopers reel too.

[John Barresi]

john all of the above plus i would like to see if this new rev will do some slack line tricks if that could be included it would help have a section for beginner fliers and one for experts that will help with the diffrent levels of fliers thet will purchase the new kite i would think

Naturally the video would start from the basics (launching, simple controls) and build up through the more advanced maneuvers, even how to recover the kite from a couple of the flat ground positions.

The new kite we'll be seeing at KTAI isn't a "trick kite', so you won't see a huge amount of tutorial on slack line stuff... Just the flic flacs and axels.

How about some disscusion of

Line length adjustment

Handle length

Using different rods and sails

You got it... All on the "to do" list.

Great idea John! Some indoors flying techniques will be also very useful. BTW your latest tango indoor flying in Argentina showed some truly amazing flying stuff! WOW. I guess the music helped you right!

Indoor... Now that will be a topic for a separate video all together... The tutorial video I have in mind is specializing on the outdoor Rev I and 1.5, in all wind ranges.

Thanks for your kudos on the tango... It was a beautiful piece, and I had a great time flying to it.

• The Toss
  
• Flip Flopping (I saw video of S. Tinkham doing it in the AKA 06 MMB)
  
• Drop from overhead catch
  
• How to set up a stack
  
• Video explanation of your handle knot system
  
• One handed manuevers
  

FYI, what you're calling "flip flopping" is likely the flic flac, which I've seen Shawn do, and quite well.

I won't be getting into stacking, or the power and speed series... Simply not my areas of expertise.

The toss and drop from overhead stuff falls under a category called "3D flying", because the kite comes down to you and goes back out... Making the action 3-dimensional.

Knot system, for sure... One handed, well, how to hold the handles anyway (the rest is practice).

What is important to me is being able to see the flyer just as much as the kite. I like the Powerblast video because it uses two cameras to show you both the kite and the flier. I would love to see a third camera drilled in on the handles.

This is a darned good idea... Whether or not we do it will come down to what kind of resources we have to work with, and whether or not we can get a professional video editor involved for cheap.

Also can you hide an easter egg on the DVD so only the people who know the code can find the special footage?

That would be cool... I'm game, if I can figure out how to do it.

Just wait, there will be a bloopers reel too.

Oh, I'm sure.

[Grandpa]

I'm sure you're planning on showing lots of hands!!! (split screen???)

Don't forget a chapter on the Zen.

The weather for tonight and tomorrow is 8-12" of snow with 40+ mph gusts... How 'bout a chapter on winter in Idaho flying

[Quad KiT]

Well since he nixed my stack set up, I have 9 REV IIs and I need to know how to stack them? Anyone have stack line dimensions?

John, an appealing menu would be nice too. The current REV DVDs have just 1 chapter listed. Would be nice to have chapters for each section. If you guys need help with DVD authoring look me up. Would be awesome to have an iQUAD commentaries option. Ive actually enjoyed some of my DVDs better with commentaries on. If you have never watched a DVD with commentaries I encourage it. Sorry to get off topic...

[monkey]

Well since he nixed my stack set up, I have 9 REV IIs and I need to know how to stack them? Anyone have stack line dimensions?

My rule of thumb is two thirds the leading edge, so, for Rev IIs, 4 feet. Also, the BOTTOM lines, ie, the tips, will get shortend a weeeee bit, ie, like tying a knot into each side. This helps with stability. You may want to tie 2 on each side, but, start with one.

[John Barresi]

Once stacked, if the back kite(s) tend to overfly the front ones, the bottom train lines in back need to be shortened a hair.

With longer stacks (like 9), you might play with gradually shortening the bottom train lines starting with the 4th or 5th kite, increasing as you get to the last kite... Small graduation though, usually topping out at about 1" pulled in on the very back kite, maybe a hair more.

That's just from my own experience, years ago.

[ant man]

this looks like its going to be laods of fun i can wait the question is now will you john be on the video or will it be joe hadzeki as he is on my rev 1 and speed series and blast videos

[John Barresi]

It would be me... And maybe a guest or two.

Would be nice if I could get Scott Weider to talk about axels, and Shawn to talk about flic flacs... Two of the best I've seen at those tricks.

[Baloo]

I am still a novice trying to master the basics. Any tricks I manage to do are by accident. Of course I pretend I ment to do it. Would be cool to be able to do some of the mooves I see on videos.

I am sure it is practice, practice, practice.

Anyway most importantly I enjoy myself.

Looking at the lists of requests I can't think of anything else I would like. The split screen idea seems a good one.

One request, mention of bungee adjustment. How much tension is needed on the sail. I am trying to adjust them untill the spars are retained and there is little deformity to the sail when it is inside, ie there is no wind on it. I hope this is somewhere near right? I do get a quite a lot od roar from the kite in gusty winds but presumed this was something I should expect.

Regards, Chris.

[John Barresi]

Aye, split screen (picture-in-picture) is a recurring request which I will take seriously.

I am sure it is practice, practice, practice.

Anyway most importantly I enjoy myself.

You're already ahead of the game Chris... Practice, and enjoy.

Seriously, there are no better tools with a Rev.

If you're looking for things to practice, try here for some basic goals.

==

As for bungee tensioning... Since that's a more immediate question from Baloo, I'll share my approach.

I like my sail tight.

Not drum tight (which tends to stretch the sail even further), but all the slack pulled out and a little more.

You'll notice, if the bungees are too loose, the vertical spars will very much appear to be sticking off the bottom of the kite when it's loaded (under solid wind pressure), a sure sign that they're too loose.

Rule of thumb... After an hour or two of solid flying, I have to tie a single additional knot about 1" to 1-1/2" inside of one of the original knots in the bungee on the bottom points of the kite.

After I have 3-4 solid hours on a kite and it's all broken in...

Standard - Point of the sail is about 1" from the end of the end cap.

Vented - Point of the sail is nearly flush (maybe 1/2" to 3/4") with the end cap, maybe even flush.

I rarely tighten the wingtip bungees, since the leading edge is generally dacron and tends to stretch very little.

==

I hope this helps some, feel free to ask for clarification on any of the points.

[Quad KiT]

awesome information. What is the advantages to having more roll on your leading edge. I have noticed that new REVs have more of a roll on the leading edge due to the bungees being tight where the verticals attach to the LE but after some time that assembly gets easier. I dont think it stays tight long enough for me to notice a difference but what is the preferred there? I understand laws of physics that cover more airfoil equaling more lift or whatever newton said but what does John say?

[John Barresi]

Are your referring to a slightly bowed leading edge spar, or some "cupping" in the sail along the leading edge?

FYI, I'm headed to an indoor event in Long Beach (WA) in about 20 minutes... Email and forum access might be sporadic over the weekend.

[Quad KiT]

referring to the cupping

[John Barresi]

I haven't played with that to any major extent... I know the SLE spar creates that effect due to it's thickness, but I find it too stiff.

Frankly, a well-trimmed Rev is already perfection as far as I'm concerned.

Same reason I stick with the 13" handles, instead of going over-length... I just take the time to learn how to make the kite do it, instead of making 1/2 dozen modifications to make things easier. Rev has had the same basic product for roughly 20 years, I prefer not to mess with it.

Granted, that is somewhat of a "nose in the air" stance... Always be encouraged to experiment, but I've found what works for me.

Effort in flight.

[Baloo]

As I have mentioned before all my Rev's are fairly old. It may be that I need to renew the bungees. I noticed last time I flew in fairly heavy wind conditions they stretched enough to almost let the vertical spars fall out of the end caps. I tightened them and all was OK again. I think that the suggestion to check them after a period of flying will be usefull. It may be that the "spring" has gone out of them over time.

Mention of 13" handles also raises a question from me. I am using I think the 11" or thereabouts handles which were standard with Exp etc, I believe they may have different ones now. I have used the pigtail idea on the handles. However, and I know that this question is going to make a lot of you smile. Can you really tell a difference with the extra couple of inches? On the handles that is of course.

At the moment I have 2 sets of 11" and 2 sets not quite sure of measurement, came with Rev 2. I may try to alter one of them for a longer "throw" if the concensus is that I as a novice will be able to fell any difference.

Thanks for the info so far.

Regards, Chris.

[nckiter]

Hello Baloo,

Yes the longer handles do make a noticable difference. A lot of us over on this side of the pond fly with the Rev handle that used to be standard with the SUL. It is also I believe the same length handle that comes standard with the Blast. I personally use the Blast handles for about all of my Rev flying. The longer lower length gives you more input control on your brakes with less wrist movement, it also gives a wider range of control. This is especially helpful with lower wind conditions. Adjusting the pigtails does set the kite up for more or less gas or brakes to be available but the longer handles opens the range up. Hope this helps.

[Quad KiT]

NCKiter, that couldn't have been said better. I concur

[Baloo]

Only thing I can say is THANKS I will try to alter one of my existing sets for the longer throw and see how I get on with them.

That is supposed to read as a big thanks in case it looks wrong in the post.

Regards,

Chris.

[John Barresi]

Hello Baloo,

Yes the longer handles do make a noticable difference. A lot of us over on this side of the pond fly with the Rev handle that used to be standard with the SUL.

The 13" handles were standard with the Rev I SUL up until about a year ago, when they were switched in as the standard handle for the 1.5 kite.

It is also I believe the same length handle that comes standard with the Blast. I personally use the Blast handles for about all of my Rev flying.

It is the same length, but the angle of the bend in the handle is a little wider (more open) on the Blast handles... And, the Blast handles are carbon-wrapped.

The longer lower length gives you more input control on your brakes with less wrist movement, it also gives a wider range of control. This is especially helpful with lower wind conditions. Adjusting the pigtails does set the kite up for more or less gas or brakes to be available but the longer handles opens the range up.

While many would disagree with me, I find that the longer handles (over 13") give the kite too much variable in the controls, especially in higher winds... I prefer to work the kite harder (filling the sail), and work with the (now) standard 1.5 handles.

2 cents.

[nckiter]

I have adopted the graphite wrapped Blast handles for all of my outdoor Rev flying. I have tried 15" & 17" but found that with either higher winds (15 mph and up) or with stacks, the longer handles put a lot of stress on my wrists and fine control is far more difficult. In lighter winds (5 mph and down) I've seen where the longer handles give a wider input range, and allow you to snap the kite around. But in these conditions I compensate with sail choice (Indoor vs SUL vs 1.5 vs 1.5 vented etc) and frame choice to adjust to the wind conditions.