Short Line Flying on walkways/streets/pathways

[Marshall Placid]

Hey Guys!

So now that I've tried the 1.5 SLE and the Supersonic...

I'm inclined to say that the Supersonic is much more fun but less precise.

To my chagrin, it is not as fast as I expected it to be... On the other hand, I was surprised I could fly it in the same wind conditions as the 1.5 SLE.

I thought I needed MORE wind to fly the supersonic.

I love the speed and I can do the inverted sliding movement much easier on the supersonic than on the 1.5 SLE.

ANY way...

Back on topic:

I want to try the 1.5 SLE on short lines, and use it on a walkway/street/pathway like how Mr. Barresi does it in his videos.

What length and weight of lines should I get?

And, what about handle length?

Also, can i do this in a "no wind" or very little wind situation? So I would pull on the kite more often, like an indoor flying technique thing?

I believe the ones I have that came with the 1.5 SLE is the 13'' (the normal ones that comes with the 1.5).

Any advice is MUCH appreciated.

[John Barresi]

Sage advice - choose your space well, "say hello" by exercising your skills (and proving them) away from people - pedestrians have the right of way always, you can easily land, smile and say "how're you?".

Remember, all it take is one altercation and voila, kites are banned... Know your ability!

I generally use 30'x50# LPG, 13" handles with a ton of brake (you must understand tuning for street flying) and a B-Series PRO STD with either black race or Rev diamond rods.

[Marshall Placid]

Thank you John!

Yes, I will definitely try it on the fields first.

With a "ton of brake", I am assuming the brake lines should be a little shorter than the top lines.

[SparkieRob]

Short lines give you a real sense of connection to your kite, sharpens your reflexes and hones skills. I use 30' x #90 as I chopped up a spare line set I had. I don't have any quad #50, well yet. I use the 13" handles. The short length makes it easier to muscle your kite if there is no wind. Don't just use it in light wind though, it is a real blast in normal wind, a complete hoot in higher wind! 3D work is so much fun and looks really trick too.

I would say that my 30's is my most used set. Probably use it 60% of the time.

[makatakam]

Hi Marshall, and welcome. Your upper and lower lines lengths should be equal. The additional brake is added by moving the top lines away from the handle (furthest knot out), and/or the bottom lines nearer to the handles (closest knot in).

Handle length is really only flier preference, I fly on shorties, others will tell you 15" or even longer indoor handles. It can be done with any length.

Thirty to fifty feet lines are what most fliers use, any strength is fine, although 50# is better in low or zero wind. Be very careful flying around people, some people are _________ , and others just don't understand. Make sure your skills are more than adequate before you try. It's too late after you hurt someone. That Spectra line will cut like razor blade, so be very careful.

[Wayne Dowler]

Agree with makatakam - equalize lines and adjust with leaders!! If you haven't made or use longer leaders, look on the Rev forum for info!! I use 30-50' x 50# lines with either my Zen or SUL and 15" handles! Setup works for me, others use different equipment!! Nice thing about the Rev - there is no one perfect setup for everyone, find what works for you!!

[mystainedskin]

In a situation like that. I tend to fly in a common area of view for a bit...gives everyone a chance to see what you are capable of and the control of the kite. Then move in for the kill! As John said ....always be respectful to others. You can watch people around you as you fly and generally be able to tell who is who when it comes to participation in the fun.

[John Barresi]

Rambling out loud...

Figure out which orientations are most stable in turbulent wind, and how each one responds in a cross breeze.

A solid amount of brake (equal lines - extend top by 7"-10" with leaders) allows the kite to stay inverted (most stable in a pickle) and also allows smaller inputs.

Never, ever rely on 100% the wind... Always be on your toes, practice the ability to jam 4-5mph into your sail with a quick surge away from the kite.

There is also something to be said for learning what each part of the kite can do to a surface or person.

Some tips make a stronger impact, others flex more, then of course, you have the "soft stuff" (small trailing edge) between bottom and outer wingtip.

Practice 360 physical awareness, build it into your rhythm to casually check over your shoulders as your arm positions permit, don't want to trample anyone.

Remember, I've got 23 years on a Rev and spent hundreds of hours training in unpopulated urban flying areas, sometimes at night, learning everything I could before actually taking my kite over anyone... And still, I never ever take anything for granted.

Carpe ventus!

[John Barresi]

Also, the SLE spar itself will be a detriment in any case - too stiff, it doesn't allow the leading edge to flex enough for an airfoil.

[SparkieRob]

Check out the tutorials too! They are pure kiting gold. I have them loaded on my iPhone so I can take JB everywhere. Covers a lot of what you'll need. Except practice. Do that lots.

[Txscout]

Just an idea... If you are like me and can not afford lines take a piece of paracord your desired length and gut it. You now have 7 lines of that length... Take four of thoose and make you line set and cut two in half to make another shorter set. They are not the best but the get the job done for alot less.(Note: I would not reconmend doing anything over 20-30 feet)

[makatakam]

Just an idea... If you are like me and can not afford lines take a piece of paracord your desired length and gut it. You now have 7 lines of that length... Take four of thoose and make you line set and cut two in half to make another shorter set. They are not the best but the get the job done for alot less.(Note: I would not reconmend doing anything over 20-30 feet)

Hi,Tx, and welcome to the forum. Your input is appreciated. You will find very much help here if you are new to quad lines, and many you can help if you are experienced. Hello from Illinois, and stay with us!

[Marshall Placid]

Wow thanks guys.

Yes, practice practice practice.

Got it.

It's just very tempting... you know... after watching those street kiting videos by Mr. Barresi! hehe.

Yes, I figured to adjust the knot lengths or bridle lines, not the line length itself.

But wow.. 7 to 10 inches more on the top leaders ... more than the brakes?

That is a big difference.

I think I'll adjust my regular 80/90' lines and see if that improves my stability first.

[Wayne Dowler]

Try 5-6" and see if that helps, then try increasing as you go! Again as I said - everyone has a setup that works for them!! I can't fly JB's setup, he doesn't like my handles!! But they work for me!!! Don't be afraid to try things, give it a fair trial, use what works, discard the rest! In the end it's what you feel comfortable with!!

[Wayne Dowler]

Txscout - I tried paracord insides for a set of "quick releases" for my lines and found it too slippery to knot effectively! And never use it with others using different lines - spectra melts at a much lower temp and odd lines will "cut" through it! Realize it's a cost thing, but use sparingly!!

[Txscout]

I would much rather be flying on spectra... The paracord gets tangled way too easy

[mystainedskin]

This gives me a great idea! That will stay a secret until the time comes.... Sorry Txscout..if I had some too send you , I would. Just sent the last of my 50# out not long ago. I do have some sets for repair that may get cut down to shorter sets...if and when that happens. I can send you something that will treat you much better than the paracord.

[John Barresi]

Just 'cause I've been having fun coining this term...

whump
wh-ump

verb

• using arm motion and backward stride, to pull the flat of a sail toward you using all four lines in order to create pressure and flex in the frame, producing drive.
  
  "the pilot whumped his sail to load up and initiate forward flight"
  
  synonyms:
  
  load, initiate, kick, tap;
  
• similar technique, applied very quickly to accentuate and power up through a short, precise movement.
  
  "he whumped his kite into a forward roll one foot above the ground, finishing in a solid forward 45 landing"
  
  synonyms:
  
  load, initiate, kick, tap;

I usually fly around 9"-12" out on the top leaders, depending on the amount of stretch in my top lines.

What allows me to "whump" the kite is having the sail relatively flat to me on it's base setting.

When I "whump", I hit all four lines and it loads the sail - flexing (curving) the leading edge, which in turn flares out the trailing edge...

More obvious examples of the kite doing this are at (exact times, may want to start 5 seconds before):

0:53 - soft/medium impact, more subtle application, initiating into a straight line on the ground pass

3:08 - hard impact, again initiating forward flight mid-window, away from the camera

3:10 - " different angle, you can really see the sudden flex and speed

(generally appears as an impact into the center of the kite, followed by authoritative movement)

Once the kite is whumped and in motion, speed + wind sustains that pressure like a siphon. as long as you're on all four lines.

Stop and the pressure slides out (kite flattens), tap it again (kite curves under tension) and you're off.

Same effect as using less brake (shorter top lines), with more power on demand and less over sheeting.

I'm using the same technique nearly all the time through many movements, but it's applied at length, grading power in and out to stay "at the end of the lines" in terms of tension.

Over-sheeting (drives me crazy) in short, is when a pilot unconsciously releases the trailing edge (bottom lines) too much and pressure slips out the back of the kite, requiring larger inputs on your brake lines (speed, turning), over sheeting is easily identified by a distinct fluttering noise from the trailing edge... It's also visible at times in the center of the kite, around the logo, where you can see there's no pressure, it goes wrinkled or flat in full forward flight, instead of being fully curved from pressure.

With more power (whump/load) and "brake", my controls are more sensitive (allows smaller inputs for same affect), smaller inputs equal less variable and easier accuracy, but I also have to be a little more dynamic physically.

Totally a style thing, there is no right way to fly a kite (other than safely), but you got me excited and I had to get it out of my system - feel free to tear it apart.

More KiteLife discussion on "whumping" and tuning here, including a photo of my favorite handles and leaders.

Best advice I can give - taste it all (if only for a few minutes), borrow, morph and invent your own flavor.

Most useful thing I ever did for my skills - (1) fly every possible kite variation (2) in as many different conditions as possible (3) as much as possible.

Boy, am I whumped - sorry for the ramble!

[Txscout]

So thats what the fluttering is...

[tkrinor]

Per your previously shared tips and instruction I have been whumping as time permits. Far from being a proficient whumper, but seeing some progress. Just when I’m feeling a bit of whumpiness, I find out about over sheeting… so back to the beach this weekend, because now I suspect I’m an over sheeter, with a limited whump ….and did not realize it…. That realization sure takes the whumpy out of your sail. Thanks for the continuing education.

[John Barresi]

Quit yer whining, grow a pair of whumps.

ROFL! Just kidding, sorry - couldn't resist.

[SkyPuppets LimitVoodoo]

How did that Devo song go? If I remember correctly, its "Whump It" right? When some good wind comes along, you must whump it... Whump it good!

And didn't Tag Team have that break-out hit in the 90's, "Whump There It Is!!"?

Sounds right to me couldn't resist

[Txscout]

What about "whumpa gangnam style"?

[John Barresi]

I think that's a kite B-movie waiting to happen.

HA! B-movie!

I better quit while I'm ahead.

[tkrinor]

Whoa publicly whumped…............went whumping yesterday, it is coming around a bit. I was dying on edge of the window at times. But, much improved over a month ago.