Captainbob Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 I flew my Rev B mid-vent today on my new Magic Sticks which I put on last evening. As I mentioned on another thread, I decided to get the Magic Sticks and give them a try for a few basic reasons. Number one, I was tired of walking back and forth from the handles to the kite, every time the kite would fall over due to wind shifts, which are the norm rather than the exception where I live. If the wind is coming from the west, and suddenly shifts to the East, the Rev will fall flat on it's face. I have used the methods of relaunching, when it is flat on the ground, but sometimes, walking to the kite is a quicker solution, especially if the wind has died down totally. The second reason, is the ability to use a lighter frame, since the Magic Sticks distribute the wind load more evenly over the frame. I have read many posts, where using the Magic Sticks enables fliers to use a lighter frame set in certain wind condition, than they would normally be able to use without the Magic Sticks. I have a 3 wrap in my B and Race Rods in my SLE Std, so this feature appealed to me too. The third thing that peeked my interest, was reverse flying and inverted hovering which is supposed to be easier with the Magic Sticks. Keep in mind that my total time flying a Rev, is probably around 20-25 hours at most, due to days and days of poor wind conditions since I got my first Rev the beginning of last month. I ordered the Magic Sticks Kit from Flying Smiles Kites a couple of days ago. http://www.flyingsmileskites.com/wordpress/2013/06/22/magic-stick-for-revs/ Eliot Shook very patiently explained on the phone how the Magic Sticks worked, how easy they were to install, and how it affected the setup and breakdown of the Rev. I originally ordered the 12" kit, but after reading that the 16" is probably a better option because it allows you to do a rolling launch ( I have no idea what that is or how to do it at this point) , so I switched the order, and got the 16" kit instead. I received it a couple of days later. The kit consists of 2 16" rods, a bag with some APA fittings which slide onto the vertical tubes of the Rev, and some color coded lines, two spiders which are fittings that have 4 leader lines coming off each one with two knots on each line, and some patches to place on the sail behind the place where the rods ends ( APA fittings) would contact the sail, for protection of the sail,. An instruction sheet clearly explains how to attach the lines to the vertical rod end fittings, top and bottom, the leading edge fittings, and a line that goes from one spider to the other. The spider sits on top of the rods, and the bottom of the rods slides into the APA fitting which is mounted on the verticals. When setting up or breaking down the Rev, all that is necessary is to place the two Magic Stick Rods, between the spiders and the APA fittings, which takes about 2 seconds for each rod. That's it, nothing else to do once everything is attached to the Rev, which is only done once. It says in the instruction sheet that " The lines should be tight, without introducing and bending to the kite frame". I found that many of the lines, I attached to the inside knot on the spider to get the proper tension. Once adjusted, the tension is spread between the tops of the verticals, the bottoms of the verticals, the ends of the leading edge, and the line that couples the left Magic Stick Rod to the Right Magic Stick rod, so in effect, every end point of the frame is connected to every other end point. As I could see, any force applied to one of the edges, would transfer in part to the rest of the kite frame , since they are now all connected. It looks like the line ( I am not a line expert) is probably about 50# , so if one line were to become damaged, it would be very easy to make a replacement. Now to the field today. Winds were about 12-15 mph with gusts to about 20-22 mph. I have a B series Mid Vent. I set the kite up, inserted the magic sticks, and stood the kite up on it's leading edge. I then unwound my kite lines, and connected them to the bridle. The handles, 80 feet away, were laying on the ground. I walked to the handles, checked for proper hookup and launched the kite. While I was doing this the wind was around 15 mph. Kite launched, and I flew it around a bit. I immediately noticed, when doing some figure 8's, that the even if I input a hard down to initiate a turn, there was no tendency for the sail to bow tie. It just tracked right around. Flew back and forth for about 10 minutes, and even though the wind was very gusty, I also noticed that the 3 wrap frame seemed stiffer than normal. Leading edge seemed to be stiffer. Now I tried some landings and relaunches, LE down, LE up, each time no problem landing and relaunching. After landing, I could put the handles down, and the kite just sat there. A couple of times, a really big gust came along, and I was getting some direction switches in the wind, and the kite would fall over on it's face. When this happened, I would have to walk to the kite to set it up, but it never fell over backwards. If it was on the LE, and fell over on it's face, a simple relaunch was doable, as shown on JB's video. So my normal, back and forth walks to the kite, were probably cut down today by 95%. I flew my Rev today almost 4 hours. Now the hard stuff, inverted hover and reverse flight. I took off , went to the top of the window, did a 180, and slowly lowered the kite to the ground. It was a piece of cake. Even though the wind was erratic, I had no trouble with the inverted hover and control. Then I launched inverted , and climbed to the top of the window, easy again. Much easier than without the Magic Sticks. OK, now the thing that I have not even tried yet on the Rev, reverse flight. I launched, flew from right to the left in the window using forward flight, and then used reverse Flight to fly back back to the left side. Zero problems, I couldn't believe it, and this was the first time I tried it. Now I have read about people that have flown for months and were still working on reverse flight, and it was easy. Now I guess some would say, " Well yeah, but could you do that without the Magic Sticks? " My reply is, maybe not, but who cares. I can do it now, and that's what counts. OK, now the cons to the Magic Sticks and I have only one. When you put the handles down on the ground, without a stake with a big colored knob on the top, and walk to the kite, when you turn around, you can't see where the handles are if the grass is tall. Couple of times, I had to look around a bit before I finally figured out where I had placed the handles which were lying in the 3 inch tall grass. I did one more test today , I went to my car a hundred or so feet away, and left the kite on the field standing up on it's trailing edge, turned 90 degrees to the wind direction to see what would happen. Eventually, it fell over on it's face, and just stayed there, until I walked back, and set it up again for the next launch. I am ordering another kit for my SLE Std kite tomorrow. Ready to launch, sitting on the Magic Sticks. Notice the lines just laying on the ground, and the sail under pressure from the wind. Side view of magic Sticks attached to Rev B. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 Convert! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 Very interesting Bob. Good review, especially for us amateurs. I may just have to go see Eliot in May, and get him to give me a test run. The backwards flying does indeed, sound interesting................. Oh, BTW..........very nice looking MV 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 They sound really good to me... I've spent a lot of time learning the inverted hover, and reverse flying, but if these make it easier, sounds worthwhile. That's the reason I fly Revs, anyway, because they're easier and sometimes you just want to relax & fly ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainbob Posted March 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 They sound really good to me... I've spent a lot of time learning the inverted hover, and reverse flying, but if these make it easier, sounds worthwhile. That's the reason I fly Revs, anyway, because they're easier and sometimes you just want to relax & fly ! I feel the same way. Not looking for a degree in flying a Rev, just to fly it fairly well and have some relaxing fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomertype Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Very interesting Bob. Good review, especially for us amateurs. I may just have to go see Eliot in May, and get him to give me a test run. The backwards flying does indeed, sound interesting................. Oh, BTW..........very nice looking MV Reef, just order a set, install them, fly them. You will be calling Elliot and ordering more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Reef, just order a set, install them, fly them. You will be calling Elliot and ordering more! Yeah, but I'll be there in a month............. Cath & Eliot will let you "fly before you buy" ! If I get a half day, free, I'll go up to Corolla, and check them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Fliers first, kite merchants second..... The Shooks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystainedskin Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 As one that does not use sticks.. it can all be done without them .. and still be just as relaxing. Launches, belly launches(face up or down), axels,flic-flacs,glides unto the edge of the earth (it's flat you know)..etc..etc..and still with no kite stake.. As with the handle setup discussions. ...it's just another flavor... just remember, in another 25 hours your views may change. Nice review by the way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 I Dispute your glide comparison, not even close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainbob Posted March 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Reef, just order a set, install them, fly them. You will be calling Elliot and ordering more! Yeah, but I'll be there in a month............. Cath & Eliot will let you "fly before you buy" ! If I get a half day, free, I'll go up to Corolla, and check them out. If you have flown Revs for quite awhile, I would suspect It would probably take more than an hour or two to totally check out the Magic Sticks. Like making a change in handles or bridle or frame. As one that does not use sticks.. it can all be done without them .. and still be just as relaxing. Launches, belly launches(face up or down), axels,flic-flacs,glides unto the edge of the earth (it's flat you know)..etc..etc..and still with no kite stake.. As with the handle setup discussions. ...it's just another flavor... just remember, in another 25 hours your views may change. Nice review by the way... The only way I would disagree, is that flying with the sticks, which will be on both my Revs by the end of this week, will be the way they are flown by me from now on. No reason to remove them and fly without them that I can rationalize ( already have 20+ hours without them) . When I practiced landing a Cessna, I had some pilots tell me that slipping on short final was the only way to do it, and other pilots told me to crab on final, and kick out the crab just before touchdown using opposite rudder. I chose the second method after trying both methods , and for the 25 years that I actively flew, the crab method is the way I landed from then on each and every time time. My landings were great, in fact I had two instructors that said I landed the aircraft as well as they did, so why change? Different strokes for different folks as the expression goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystainedskin Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 I Dispute your glide comparison, not even close I figured that would get a stir...I am not saying your wrong by using them..or that it is wrong in any way....if it works for you..by all means fly them. Like mentioned...another "flavor". Ask Paul... he will be happy to tell you how long he was dead set against them....as an accomplished pilot with several thousands of hours flying..now he uses them. What happened?Did he get abducted and cloned? NO....his "flavor" changed..... Never rule out something cause it doesn't work for you today. The goal with the comment was to explore the kite completely..not just say...oh I can back up now, these are the best thing since sliced bread. Fly on! Magic sticks or not! Keep exploring....and don't forget to take them off after awhile and see what they have done for you..have your skills improved or declined through the use of said "elixer" ? Variety is the spice of life.... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 With or without sticks, the only thing that really makes you any better is - TIME ON THE LINES!!! The more you fly, the better you get at recognizing how the sail works, leader setup, choice of handles, etc!! You start to develop your own "flavor", not just accept that this is the way it comes, so it must be right! You start to come up with a combo of things, choices, that work for you!! That elusive "feel" we've been talking about! Everyone has different settings, rod combos, kite setups, etc!! No one is wrong if it works for them!! It's never been what you use, it's how you use it that counts!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 It's never been what you use, it's how you use it that counts!! Socrates, at his best ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Thank you, thank you!! ( bows to the crowd)!! lol! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainbob Posted March 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 I Dispute your glide comparison, not even closeI figured that would get a stir...I am not saying your wrong by using them..or that it is wrong in any way....if it works for you..by all means fly them. Like mentioned...another "flavor". Ask Paul... he will be happy to tell you how long he was dead set against them....as an accomplished pilot with several thousands of hours flying..now he uses them. What happened?Did he get abducted and cloned? NO....his "flavor" changed..... Never rule out something cause it doesn't work for you today. The goal with the comment was to explore the kite completely..not just say...oh I can back up now, these are the best thing since sliced bread. Fly on! Magic sticks or not! Keep exploring....and don't forget to take them off after awhile and see what they have done for you..have your skills improved or declined through the use of said "elixer" ? Variety is the spice of life.... Well it works for me, so I guess that's a positive outcome. That is the reason that I wrote the review. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacolyps Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Looking forward to getting my new kites and a set of magic sticks to try. I have a lot to learn. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystainedskin Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Some stick love to get the juices flowing again.. 3 of Team Rev Riders... Laura Berg, Rich Comras, Paul Dugard Treasure Island 2014 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystainedskin Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 and Rich Comras giving our own forum member Barton Bailey a hard time... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystainedskin Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 ..and by the way...kudos for the review! People with the passion to sit and write experiences is what keeps things going and growing. I started right here on Kitelife...every piece of info is more valuble than you could ever imagine 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainbob Posted April 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 and Rich Comras giving our own forum member Barton Bailey a hard time... Wow, those are some nice looking Revs..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Shook Masterpiece revs,.... some love their extreme smoothness in flight, others complain there's "no shoulder to push against". Like anything else, it's another flavor. The big advantage to this design style is the weight of the mesh screening is not included in the sail, so you get a bigger wind window to fly in and a much larger variety of wind conditions where it is still an effective choice. The downside is you've paid for almost two kites, so you'd better get some flight advantages! I am particularly partial to Eliot Shook as he'd do whatever I ask in modifications, even making custom leading edge sleeves for kites made by Bazzer! In Rich's blue & gray fade picture above, I see extra reinforcing patches and a shiny mylar-backed nylon SUL leading edge sleeve, (what?!!?) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Putting in this shot by WA of my SUL, I think it's a corker pic. Still gotta take the FB labels though... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Had the pleasure of using one of Rich's 100% weaves last year, very nice!! As Paul mentioned, it does feel a bit light on the lines, but that was the design's intent, to reduce the pull!! Does it fly well - yes! Is it different than a "B" - yes! Just another flavor to try and find out YOUR combo!! If you have the chance to try one - by all means, do it!! Never know when something "clicks" with you!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 That set-up of components sure feels tight on the end of the lines, doesn't it SparkieRob? If the stock Revolution bridle holds the kite frame loosely, then the french bridle option is arc-welded and completely rigid without any bridle play whatsoever. My instantly responding rig is someone else's too darn twitchy to fly right,.... It's not better, just different. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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