deerislandbrew Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Hey all, How about some input on UL sport kites. I have been reading up on some of the offerings out there. I know some of the higher end kites like the Widow Maker UL is probably one of the nicest in it's class but fairly pricey. Does anyone have experience on the Prisum Zephyr? I understand it's realistic wind range starts more in the 3-4 mph range. How about the Silver Fox UL? I know the Prisum 4D will work in very low wind although a smaller kite. Any Favorites that anybody would recommend for a 3 to 10 mph range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave362 Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 I've flown the Silver Fox UL a bunch. Nice kite, tricks well. A good friend I used to fly with regularly had one and I used to make him let me fly it all the time. He flew it in some pretty light winds. Thing is, It wasn't the lightest UL available, but it had a large sail area, and coupled with some light wind technique managed pretty well. I've flown the Zeph a bit too and it was nice. For the range you mentioned. 3 to 10, I think a lot of available kites would do real well. Just my opinion, but I would buy what you like and can affford, and then spend a little time on simple, basic light wind techniques. You should be all set Best of luck in your UL search! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 I had a Zephyr and could fly it in 2mph and up. It takes some tuning and you need to remove the spine weight, but it does well in lower winds. It definitely will not fly well unless well tuned. I started to get into tricking with it, but got side-lined by quad-line kites and then lost the Zephyr, E2 and E3 to unfortunate circumstances, along with a few other kites. I liked the way the E2 flew better, but it is not a UL, and is at it's best in 5mph and up. Short time on the lines with the Zephyr, but nothing bad to say about it. If I get back into duals I will get another and a Kymera. I believe the Kymera has a fairly low wind range too, if you lose the weights, but I think those are part of the tuning. John Barresi can probably give us some meaningful input on that. Edit: I just checked stats on the Kymera and it says the weights can be used in any combination, so I am guessing it can be flown without them also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 I've spent quite a bit of time on the Silver Fox UL - it is heavy and flexible, not ideal for anything less than 4mph imho. Kymera lower wind range without weights is probably about the same, sweet spot is really 5-10mph, not your best choice for a UL. Ocius SUL is pretty killer for light wind, not sure about pricing, maybe on the higher end. I also enjoyed the Aura for light wind, very capable. What are you actually looking for in terms of low and performance, pure flight vs flippy floppy tricks, ratio of importance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerislandbrew Posted March 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 John, Just looking for something that is basic trick capable and will stay in the sky in those very light wind conditions of 2 - 5 mph. When the wind kicks up better then 5mph I can switch to a standard at that point. I am located down river from your area near St Helens - Raineer. Wind can be on and off here but it is a bit better when right down on the Columbia with the river influence. My favorite place to fly is the beach, however the river wind is really good when it picks up during the peak summer months. Just thinking of something to fill the gap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 Basic tricks like stalls, landings, fade, axel? Or backspin, cascade, etc? Just trying to narrow down "basic", as it means different things to different fliers, depending on whether most of their time is spent flying or mostly "on its back"... A lot of fliers nowadays spend 80% of their time with the kite almost straight downwind, flipping around. Especially when it comes to choosing a UL or SUL kite, this is an important distinction. Personally, my first priority is sail pressure, tracking and cornering, with trick ability coming in afterward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerislandbrew Posted March 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 I am still a newbee when it comes to tricks. Since I am in the learning stage, I would refer to "basics" as axles, Fade, slide, coin toss etc. Backspins, 540's, cascade etc. and the rest can come later. Right now with the info I have and have read, I'm thinking maybe the Prisum 4D. Originally I figured most UL would start at around 3 mph to fly. Now I see some may work OK as low as 1 mph. I really don't want to chase a kite to keep it in the sky though. I'm thinking some of the UL's will preform well at 2-3 mph and up to around 10 mph. The sweet spot being 2-5 hopefully. Of course I won't put it away until it becomes to much wind for the kite before switching most likely. I have pretty good control at this point with tracking and cornering. I still am working on learning to axel correctly, but I think my stalls and snap stalls are looking pretty good at this point. I'm also about ready to jump into the Rev kite scene as well. Gotta try everything if I can! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadge Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I had a 4D - nicely made and with the case a very nice package BUT - while it will fly in 1mph ( or less if you run backwards) it is small and very twitchy, by 5mph everything is happening very quickly and at 7mph it went back into the bag. I know you see it doing lots of tricks on Youtube but in reality you need a very light hand to stand a chance of doing much - I fly trick kites a lot but I could only manage fades and 540's on the 4D - I think the very flexible 2.5mm carbon frame doesn't help as any hint of a strong input tends to make the frame twist and pulls the kite out of the sky. If you really must fly in no wind then the 4D will let you fly, but if you can live with something that needs just a little more breeze there are better allround trickable UL's out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave362 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I have 3 kites I like for really light wind. A 4D, QP SUL and an Ozone. All 3 fly really nicely, float around beautifully and can do real nice flat spin type moves. Now, I've never even seen a kite competition in person, so take this opinion for what its worth, but it seems to me the specific UL class has a bit more mass and the ones I've flown at least are more given to pitch based moves than a true SUL. When the winds are really light, I really enjoy just carving prretty shapes in the sky and the whole trick thing kinda goes out the window.... So for me, I just want something that will fly nicely without too much effort. The 4D is great for really small spaces, the Ozone is just beautiful in the sky. Once the wind gets up around 4 or 5 I just switch to a standard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 On this forum, go to: General Kite Stuff, Kite Videos, Of White Kites & Snow Watch the video in the first post. Might give you some ideas of the capabilities of some SUL's in the hands of an experienced flyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave362 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Beautiful flying! Rob is a gifted flyer and that's the best work I've seen from him. I think I may have been unclear and I apologize for that. I wasn't refering to JL type pitch moves, in which the rotation is accomplishedd through line tension, " half lazy, Pull to unroll," But wrap tricks, such as the Lewis, Wap Do Wap, Wrapped axel, Wrapped 540, in which the pitch based rotation is acheived through a hard input followed by controlled slack, aided by inertia. For those types of moves, the greater mass of the UL over the SUL is an advantage. I apologize for the confusion. Thanks Mark! I've always found your posts helpful 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Sorry if I was somewhat vague, there, Dave. The reply was intended for deerislandbrew. He's trying to decide on a light wind kite, and that video is just stuck in my head as one of the best flyer/kite/low wind combos I have ever seen. I'm a dual-line wannabee; in spite of flying them on-and-off for six years I haven't learned a thing. My primary passion is quads, and I have been remiss in improving my skills with duals. I have the technical knowledge, but very little practical experience. I can do all the adjustments to make the kite fly optimally, just can't make it trick. I would love to just be able to do a slide, axle and tip stab. I have won both a Genesis and Stranger in the Karma drawings on this forum, and have vowed to get them into the air frequently this year. Most of the people I fly with are into quads also, and so it has been difficult to get one of the people who know how to help me with learning duals. If I can get half as good as RobB it would make me extremely happy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave362 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Oops! Sorry Mark, funny how easy it is to get confused on the internet.... yes, Rob is flying great and that video is really inspiring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Hey guys, thank you very much for the compliments on that one... It's taken a number of years & the input from great pilots like JB through this and other forums that got me flying. One of the original videos that inspired me is JB's Sea Devil promo, and as you can see, I'm still flying my Sea Devils, trying to fly like him. As far as the OP's question... I would strongly recommend the Zephyr as a good kite to learn light wind flying. It isn't an easy kite to fly in 1-3mph wind, but it can be done. In the 3-10mph range, it's a great kite. The Zephyr is built pretty strong, and will take a lot of abuse without breaking, too. A little secret about learning to fly in light wind... fly a heavier kite. Before I had an UL or SUL, I learned most of my light wind flying technique trying to get my kites to fly when there wasn't enough wind. Once I got a true SUL (my first SUL was a Skyburner NikNak) flying in light wind was easy. Trying to fly tricks in light wind is another story... but the biggest trick is actually getting a kite to fly when there's little to no wind ! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWkiteluv Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 +1 on the Aura. I have the sul and it tricks and flies well in the same range as my 4D (which I do love as well, I learned a lot with that little kite) though is a much better kite for tricks and flight IMO. Of course it's more expensive but I think it's a great value if it means more flying time. Good luck in your search! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerislandbrew Posted March 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Thanks for all the input guys. After considering everything, I ordered a Zephyr today. I think that starting with a bigger wing and more versatile kite like this one, will make a good kite to learn on before trying a UL, SUL or other really light kites. Hopefully I'll be able to take it for a spin this weekend if it arrives in time! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Thanks for all the input guys. After considering everything, I ordered a Zephyr today. I think that starting with a bigger wing and more versatile kite like this one, will make a good kite to learn on before trying a UL, SUL or other really light kites. Hopefully I'll be able to take it for a spin this weekend if it arrives in time! What colour did you get? I've always liked the Inferno red. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerislandbrew Posted March 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 I got the "Venom" The green graphics look really nice. I have the hypnotist in "Fire" so already have a nice red-orange color scheme. Makatakam ; you mentioned tuning the kite. What kind of modifications should or can be done on this kite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 If you purchased it new, there should be an instruction sheet to help you along. You can adjust the bridle tow point positions, move the stand-offs toward or away from the center, to adjust for light, medium or heavier winds. You can also move the spine weight toward the nose or the tail to aid in tricking. Toward the nose makes it less stable, hence easier to do some tricks. You have to find a balance for the way you fly, which will change as you get better. I don't recall if that kite has a leach line. If it does, you can tighten it for more speed and less vibration, or loosen it for slower speed and more vibration (sound). All of these variables will also affect how it tracks a line by making it more/less stable overall. Depending on the adjustments you make, some tricks will be harder and some easier. You can make frame and sail mods, but this kite is pretty darn near as good as it gets right out of the bag. You can also use lighter or shorter lines for light wind, or heavier and longer for higher winds. Play with it. It's a fun kite to fly, and reasonably durable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 I adjusted my Zephyr with the AOA knots all the way towards the nose, and left the spine weight in the case. I felt that the weight made the kite fly funny. I found that the kite flew best across the wind range setup that way. Once the wind goes over 10mph, put it away and fly your Hypnotist... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerislandbrew Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Yes...or the Rev mid vent that is on it's way also! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Yeah, you're addicted. That's the good news! Now, for the bad news: Remember that bank account you used to have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Bank account? What bank account? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerislandbrew Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Into the wind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmadz Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Into the wind! You can't take it with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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