Hand position

[Dave362]

A lot of flyers (who trick way better than me) seem to fly with their hands right at their hips all the time. I tend to fly with my hands more in front of my body and close together, and then move them down to my hips for certain tricks. When flying figures, I jest feel I have more control that way. I'm just curious what others do. I really started thinking about this recently when watching the great rev tutorials on here. Hand position seems pretty important, so I figured I should inquire about what all of you do regarding dual line hand position. So what is your hand position and why?

Thanks for your help!

Dave

[RobB]

After thinking about it, I would say I fly the same way... if I'm flying figures, my hands go more in front of me, almost as if I'm watching them out of the corner of my eye. But when tricking, they go to a more neutral position at my sides, so I'm equally ready to throw some slack or pull back.

[Dave362]

Good stuff, Rob

I fear my hands stay out in front a bit too much even when tricking, which is why I started this thread. I'm thinking I may need to be more at my hips when tricking. I've noticed in Mama74's tutorials, and your vids as well, that folks have their hands right at their sides all the time when tricking. So I figured I'd see what others are doing and maybe try to break some bad habits....

[RobB]

I learned most of what I know from watching Martin's videos, so it figures that my movements would emulate his. I do my fair share of stumbling & flailing, mostly due to the instinctual desire to keep the kite in the air.

[SparkieRob]

Flying figures my hands are in front about mid stomach. When I am doing, and by that I mean loosely, tricks my hands are lower and almost either side of my hips.

I found having my hands in front for figures was easier for me to go back to the neutral position out of a turn. Still working on less is more though.

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[John Barresi]

Think about it like a boxer - hands in the power zone, ready to jab or defend, that's where you have the most ergonomic strength and coordination.

Basically, between your belt and your solar plexus.

https://youtu.be/UX0TrbVuCAs?t=1m35s

Also, think about straight line from elbow to kite, providing the most direct pull on the line and least effort required, as opposed to having your hands too high, low or wide, where the line of tension actually breaks into a "V", making inputs less accurate and requiring more effort to force that leverage.

[John Barresi]

For tricks, it'll depend on your style and the kites (tuning) you're using.

 

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Post by John Barresi.

[Dave362]

Great stuff!

John,

that boxer analogy is the coolest ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Funny you should use that one... I punched myself in the face on Sunday while attempting a slot machine. That's taking it too far, right?

[John Barresi]

Try it with a metal Rev handle. lol

Still happens on rare occasion.

[SHBKF]

Try it with a metal Rev handle. lol

Still happens on rare occasion.

Oooo, now that I know it's possible, I almost can feel it coming....

[John Barresi]

Watch your front teeth, had a couple good scares. hahaha

Seriously, most of it comes down to having a good, established form... Sort of like a Kata, or using a variety of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kata

Like in martial arts training, they rotate through various katas, sort of like moving from pose to pose and learning the fluidity and power between, so that it's all stored deeply and can be accessed more automatically.

I also recommend to anyone, set up a video camera to film like 10-15 minutes of yourself from the front and side, do a little private review without being judgmental, just observational.

If you look awkward, it probably is...

Hand position, shoulder tension, stance...

If you look cool and feel good, it probably is.

[John Barresi]

FYI, just pinned this topic - great one, keep it flowing.

[Dave362]

John,

That Kymera video you linked was really helpful. I've always thought a guy could achieve more of a middle ground, with the tricking hand position closer to what is traditionally used for push turns and stuff. That's just the first time I've ever seen it done. Man, this forum has been so helpful. i've already learned a ton and I've only been here a week!

[John Barresi]

Sounds like you're on the path!

We aim to please, and share.

[Dave362]

I tried filming a bit of my hand/body position today, Not as bad as I expected. My hands are more to my sides when tricking than I realized. Sometimes I look a little goofy, but then, I'm a little goofy. Stance seems ok. Best thing I saw is that I'm moving on the field a lot. This was a good exercise.

[Dave362]

I was working on straight lines across the window today, using a half axel to reverse direction. I really tried to power out of the rotation, locking on the new heading. I'm posting this because I really had to have my hands out front and together to get a hard heading lock, fully powered up. If I tried to keep them at my sides in the most common tricking position I got very little power up and the nose would wander around before settling on a heading. Just some thoughts I'm having as I try to get a handle on all of this. I will say, I now feel hand position and stance are together a more significant key to flying well than I ever realized. Thoughts?

[makatakam]

To quote The Last Samurai, "Too much mind" ....... mind foot position, mind people, mind arm extension, too much mind. ................ No mind!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that yes proper position, etc., is good. However, all of what you see someone else do will probably not work the same for you, simply because of each person's differing physical size, stamina and agility. At 64 years of age I can no longer move the way I did when I was 18. So I fly a very much more static style, but can still accomplish the same moves with the kite. All persons will have some limitations on what they can do. Don't worry too much about how others do any particular move as much as just learning to do. It will automatically become part of your own individual style.

[Palmahnic]

@Dave362 I was having the same issue with the half axle today. To power to the other side after the trick, I needed my hands like a boxer (as JB so eloquently put it), but for the pancake launch to fade, I put my hands at my sides for better balance. It's true though, like @makatakam wrote, each person has their own physical comfort zone.

[RobB]

It's true, I have to punch through the half-axels, too. Which makes me wonder, if punching is more for precision flying, are half-axels more a precision move than a trick ?

[Dave362]

Interesting, Rob. My opinion is the way we treat it makes it more related. Think about it: You use the half axel to change direction and power away. A firm, precise heading lock with a fully powered up sail makes it look so much better, and that's accoomplished through precision. With moves like the 540 or JL plus off shoots, we tend to let the kite settle out of the trick, finish rotating, whatever, and then fly off. You've got me thinking it may look better and cleaner by using a precision exit to these tricks when the goal is to end the combo and fly off. John's sail loading tutorial started all this for me. I just want to focus more on the quality of my flying, rather than trying to learn every trick in the book.....

[RobB]

That's how I was the first few years flying dual line kites, trying to learn every trick I could. Once I learned that dual line kites could trick, that is... I flew for a couple years just zooming around, stalling, and landing before I saw the DVD that came with one of my kites. Wow, tricks ! I gotta learn me some of those !

A while back, I hit a glass ceiling. I couldn't learn to do the Taz Machine or Slot Machine trick, so I started to learn how to do the tricks I could do better. I'm still in that mode, and I haven't learned any new tricks in a few years. I may have even forgotten some that I knew.

My flying now is a mix of flying some, throw in some tricks, and then try to exit cleanly and fly some more. That could be partially due to the kites that I am flying now, not radical tricksters, but kites that have good precision and can trick when you ask them.

My goal at this point is to make my flying look better, more fluid, with flow, from one segment to the next. Make it look like 'I meant to do that...'

It's all about getting out, getting some fresh air, and getting a smile on your face. If you make it too hard, it stops being fun & you burn out. The great thing about kiting is there are single lines, dual lines, quad lines... so much variety, there's always something to fall back on.

[Dave362]

Since starting this topic two months ago, I've learned a bunch. The most important lesson was that you have to come at this your own way. I recently filmed a number of sessions with my Nirvana on short lines so i could easily see the kite as well as me. The tricks looked far, far better when I didn't think about anything and just flew. Even though most guys these days trick with their hands at their siides using short, small inputs, I just feel more confident and in control with my hands out front. Simple as that...

Thanks for everyone's great advice in this thread!

[SparkieRob]

Body rhythm is key. Where you feel comfortable is the base for your style.

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[asburyparkjohn]

When trick flying always keep the neutral hand position to push/pull accordingly. When stright line flying or figures then whatever ... you can always spot a rookie withe plastic handles - arms straight out and elebows away from the body. PERIOD!

APJ

[Wayne Dowler]

When trick flying always keep the neutral hand position to push/pull accordingly. When stright line flying or figures then whatever ... you can always spot a rookie withe plastic handles - arms straight out and elebows away from the body. PERIOD!

APJ

You mean the dreaded "crucifix" position?? lol ! That and trying to learn on way too short lines!! Easy giveaway!!