rfcaddell Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 After getting a really nice bonus at work the opportunity was just right so earlier this week I placed an order for a Zen, should have it in about 8 weeks. I currently have 13" & 15" handles plan on using the 15" with the Zen as I understand you need bigger inputs. I have linesets of 50# @ 50', 75', 120' and 90# @ 75' & 120'. I ordered the Zen with just Zen rod for now with my knees surgery this last year I'm still a little flat footed for now, may upgrade to race rods outers and 2 wrap center for the leading edge. With my complete B-series set of kites this should cover all winds condition. I'm hoping to just pick up my bag and head out vs checking the local weather site for wind conditions and hope for stronger winds. So can you guys give me some insight as to what to do and what not to do, or any tips you have flying the Zen. As always thanks for the info that you guys supply on this Fourm it's priceless! Ron 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHBKF Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Congratulations on the bonus. I too sometimes add a nice kite when unanticipated funds show up. Your description of your Revolution kites, handles & line sets answer many of the preliminary questions we might ask. Sounds like you have it all covered to me. The Zen is a different kite when compared to the 1.5's for sure. I had flown a Revolution 1 Sedgwick quite a bit before I got my Zen. It had taught me to slow down a bit. I was still flying without much brake in my handle leaders & I was zooming around fluttering with the smaller wings. When I received my Zen I wanted to fly it as factory issued for some time before moving onto the suggested changes. To me, the Zen rods seemed to make the kite sort of rubbery in it's responses. I also had trouble with my inputs to the point that I jerked the kite out of the sky or flew off the side of the window. Eventually I moved to the suggested framing you mentioned and it made quite a difference. I am still learning to say the least. Light lines & longer line lengths will be preferred by some. Persevere & you will be rewarded with that Zen experience. It's not for everyone though. When conditions are favorable I am amazed at the huge window you can fly it in. I anxiously await other's posts. Wishing you well with your new wing. SHBKF 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafThunder Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 I agreed what SHBKF wrote with my Rev 1, but not with Zen (never try it before) ... I am still fighting it to get Rev 1 under control and still rubbery steering ... changing from strong frame to (special order) green race frame helps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Not for everyone IS really dependent on expectations! If you expect something that leaps into the sky in absolutely no wind - sorry, not happening! Hope that didn't burst your bubble, but way too many have bought it expecting something it isn't!! ANY quad requires good footwork to fly! Light wind may require more! You will find that the Zen really shows any flaws in your flying, The suggested LE swap is a very good fix, change it - ASAP!! The stock frame IS rubbery, you never know when to give the next input !! And you need to learn how to baby it around. It isn't the sports car a 1.5 is, rather a big bus, that needs room and time. That's why the longer lines work - more time to let it react! I've also decided on adding some magic sticks to mine. Been almost 2 seasons now, I like how they restrict the LE, making it even stiffer - to my touch anyway! And I like your selection of lines - I also use either 50# or 90# in close to the same lengths as you! 50' for solo work, 75' or 120' for duets. I do fly it solo, but I fly mine more than most. It was designed to be a team kite, but the over steer was a problem in team flying. Changing the LE helps, but doesn't eliminate the problem - makes it tolerable!! As far as handles go - I have 13", 14", and 15" ones - probably use my 15" most of the time. But not so much for inputs as more light wind leverage. Don't know the tech reasons, but the longer handles just seem to lift better. However as the wind comes up, the shorter 13" will feel better! Or just swap to a STD!! Usually if I feel the need to swap handles - it's time to swap sails! Got questions - just ask - be glad to answer! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 As Wayne mentioned, the Zen will exaggerate all the flaws in your flying technique, and with time spent flying it, will help to decrease or eliminate them. This makes it a valuable tool in improving your skills. However it does take some determination to continue using it for that purpose when other sails can be flown instead. If you are "fast and furious" with a kite, it may not be as much fun for you to fly it. This kite is slow and graceful, even on shorter lines; I like to fly mine on 40ft x 50lb lines in very light wind with the standard Zen frame. I wouldn't really call the feel of that set-up rubbery or spongy, but rather that it requires early inputs and early ends to inputs, to accommodate its size. It takes a while for the mind and body to connect with this kite, but in my opinion it's worth the effort. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyzakite Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 On 1/23/2016 at 2:17 AM, rfcaddell said: With my complete B-series set of kites. So can you guys give me some insight as to what to do and what not to do, or any tips you have flying the Zen. As always thanks for the info that you guys supply on this Fourm it's priceless! Ron I'm thinking as long as you have complete set and 8 weeks, is to spend 7 1/2 weeks on the B2 then jump back into a 1.5B. You'll have a good start on how the Zen will feel by comparing the slowness, lack of response, rubbery feeling the 1.5B has compared to the B2 you became use to for 7 1/2 weeks. You'll probably want to start with longer than 50' lines and more forward than you are use to with the smaller revs. If you have too much reverse you'll have a harder time steering it. It's a heavy kite compared to the 1.5's. Once you get use to the steering it will fly pretty in the sky. You can get 36' Sky Shark tubes for it cheap enough, to play with different frame combos. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Actually, what hyzakite said is GOLDEN! Fly a B2 for 3 or 4 hours and then switch to a 1.5 -- that's exactly the way a Zen feels after flying a 1.5, only twice as much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfcaddell Posted January 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Hey guys thanks for the feedback, I guess I was clear as mud in my post, the kites I have are B-series only (Standard sail, Mid vent and Full vent) No B2 at this time. I know it's going to be challenging to fly this bigger and slower kite compared to my 1.5's but if that's what it takes to fly in low wind, I'll just had to be real patient and persistent and not give up. I decided to go ahead and order the upgrade to the LE to the modified version of outer race rods and 2 wrap center. What you all said about it being rubbery and some of the videos I've seen you can really see the frame flex quite a bit got me thinking. This way if I don't like the soft frame, I can just install the modified LE and keep flying As always thanks for the great info Ron 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Funny thing is that the modified LE rods are lighter than the stock ones - go figure!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfcaddell Posted January 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 What do you guys suggest for the vertical rods? Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHBKF Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 3 hours ago, rfcaddell said: What do you guys suggest for the vertical rods? Ron I am using what Wayne suggested, the Zen tubes for verticals and the race/two wrap/race leading edge. I have tried the full black race frame in the Zen but could not discern any advantage. The Zen tubes seem just fine as verticals. So by only using two of the black race tubes I have three left over from my full set that I now have in my Sedgwick as the leading edge. Verticals take the highest stress during flight, leading edge tubes take a beating during crashes. Just trust me on this because somehow I know..... SHBKF Zen on the left, Sedgwick on the right 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 6 hours ago, rfcaddell said: Hey guys thanks for the feedback, I guess I was clear as mud in my post, the kites I have are B-series only (Standard sail, Mid vent and Full vent) No B2 at this time. I know it's going to be challenging to fly this bigger and slower kite compared to my 1.5's but if that's what it takes to fly in low wind, I'll just had to be real patient and persistent and not give up. I decided to go ahead and order the upgrade to the LE to the modified version of outer race rods and 2 wrap center. What you all said about it being rubbery and some of the videos I've seen you can really see the frame flex quite a bit got me thinking. This way if I don't like the soft frame, I can just install the modified LE and keep flying As always thanks for the great info Ron 3 hours ago, rfcaddell said: What do you guys suggest for the vertical rods? Ron Borrow someone's 2 or B2 if you can. Where the frame flexes a lot in the vids you've seen, the pilots are exceeding the recommended wind range. With enough experience you develop a feel for how much the kite can handle before things start snapping. The verticals can be the Zen rods, or something lighter than whatever is in the LE -- if the combo makes sense for a specific reason, use it. Mix and match different combos. You will learn a lot about what makes a Rev hum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I'm using the Zen rods as verts. More wind than those will take - means STD to me! I do tend to switch sails faster than most, I just don't like the feel of excessive pull! Especially in the team flying I do - a lot!! But because the rest of my team doesn't use the Zen, most used as a solo machine or in duets! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyzakite Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 As far as verticals, I actually use the 5 Zen tubes that came with the kite. On my other revs I will use different vertical tubes to speed up or slow down the kite by the added weight or lack of it. Other than that, the verticals merely maintain the shape of the kite to me. Like Wayne, I switch Revs often but will switch out the verticals to adjust the speed, there's been times that I've mismatched verticals because a 3 and a 4wrap was laying there and the 2wraps was a bit too light. I guess, what I'm suggesting for vertical tubes is #1 = use ones that fit in the end caps. #2 = use ones that make you happy to be outside enjoying yourself. Ron, you got it under control. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfcaddell Posted January 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 I notice a lot of the photos people have their kites unfolded and hanging on or sitting against the wall. Is it better to have them all set up versus being all folded up in the kite bag? Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 I fold, roll tightly and seal w/Velcro strips, been doing like that for decades, damage is from giving lessons & hard flailing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 I don't even take the tension out of the LE's on my duals. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyzakite Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 I think a lot of photos you see might be "photo shoots" of peoples kites and not necessarily left that way most of the time. As far as "is it better" that depends on what you are doing with the kite, flying it = it's better if it's setup, shipping it = it's better if it's folded up in the bag. I leave some revs and wind generators setup during the warm months and bring them in at night, some of my SLK's I'll leave outside on their lines and anchors where they landed that night, some will self launch again, and some I'll have to launch the next morning. Everyone has a different situation and reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfcaddell Posted May 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 Man what a great day flying at Bellingham bay. Started with my Zen wind around 2 mph one hour later had to move on to my B-series Std winds at 7mph. 30 minutes later wind was up to 10 -12 mph moved to B-series mid vent, then an hour later winds at 15 mph completed the day using my B-series full vented. First time I used all four kites in one day. I was in kite heaven. Ron 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 Mama said there'd be days like this -- just too few and far between. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted May 10, 2016 Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 Zen "stock" is okay to start with, but it comes alive with some options affixed later on. I prefer a Diamond frame (six piece leading edge is another great addition to consider, their travel frame). I use a different bridle (more bridle legs to distribute forces and more responsive as there's no wiggle room anywhere) and 18 inch magic sticks also to further stiffen the frame\sail combination. My handles of choice for this kite are 19 inch titanium 3/8" diameter, grade 5 tubes with custom fishing grips crafted by Glenn Haynes. They are super light weight and give enough throw that you don't have to run around if you want to flail. I seldom fly the kite on less than a hundred feet of string, usually 50# test for reduced drag. I am on my 3rd Zen, certainly one of the greatest developments in Revolution history from my perspective. Ask Bazzer to make the leading edge TIGHT to a single frame member for better aerodynamics. A couple of extra reinforcing patches along the leading edge will double the life of the sail, (where it folds and at the center so you can work on the "throw & catch" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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