Voodoostuff Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 Hi guys. I’m thinking about building a large, (15-18 foot wingspan) hard pulling, framed kite, and I was curious what type of fabric is recommended. Icarex works great for smaller stuff, but I assume it would not be strong enough for the load on a large sail. I would like for the kite to be as light as possible, but I expect a lot of pull, from such a large kite. Any suggestions, or insight are greatly appreciated. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 Kitesquid (Harold Ames) made this kite with Icarex for the US Navy,... only thing is he blew it up to 21 feet instead of sixty inches wide it was framed in one inch diameter Revolution tubes, 42 of 'em https://www.richmondairforce.com/Files/DTplans.pdf flew it on 12000 feet of 300 pound spectra to do testing instead of a helium filled balloon "skin" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breezin Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 Since you said hard pulling I'm assuming duals.Korvo kites web site could give you some ideas.The only insight I have thanks to that big kite nut HiNator is that I want one. Asked a fella in Holland if he'd make me a 150%/12' open sourced plan sail but he doesn't go that big.Any bigger than 12' and I'd be in a different realm of framing. Hope you build it and post your progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoostuff Posted June 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 25 minutes ago, Breezin said: Since you said hard pulling I'm assuming duals.Korvo kites web site could give you some ideas.The only insight I have thanks to that big kite nut HiNator is that I want one. Asked a fella in Holland if he'd make me a 150%/12' open sourced plan sail but he doesn't go that big.Any bigger than 12' and I'd be in a different realm of framing. Hope you build it and post your progress. Yes, it will be a dual. I have a few large kites, and they are a different fabric, but I have no idea what it is. It is heavy fabric though. Maybe like for a sailboat, not sure. I would really like to keep it lighter, but I don’t want to spend the time building it, just for the sail to blow out on me. Thanks for the insight. I will check into Korvo Kites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoostuff Posted June 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 6 hours ago, Paul LaMasters said: Kitesquid (Harold Ames) made this kite with Icarex for the US Navy,... only thing is he blew it up to 21 feet instead of sixty inches wide it was framed in one inch diameter Revolution tubes, 42 of 'em https://www.richmondairforce.com/Files/DTplans.pdf flew it on 12000 feet of 300 pound spectra to do testing instead of a helium filled balloon "skin" Thanks for the info Paul. Gives me a little more confidence in Icarex as an option, but I’m still not sure it would be strong enough. I’ll do a bit more research before I move forward on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmond Dragut Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 more then Icarex try to research the frame. is 100% sure to break before Icarex to be 50% stretched. Also if you will do the build research the tread you will use.this is another thing what will break especially to a big dimensions kite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoostuff Posted June 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 3 hours ago, Edmond Dragut said: more then Icarex try to research the frame. is 100% sure to break before Icarex to be 50% stretched. Also if you will do the build research the tread you will use.this is another thing what will break especially to a big dimensions kite Thanks. I already knew the frame will need to be strong enough to handle the stress. I hadn’t considered the thread though. The insight is very much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiNator86 Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 I know the 9 meter Wosling kite is frames in close to 3/4" and the 12 meter one is framed in 1". I haven't asked Bernd in a few weeks about my 5 meter kite. But hopefully will get that heading my way soon. 15-18 foot dual, I would say that Icarex should be fine, and would agree that the frame, stitching, bridal, and line set will be more of a concern. Thor's Hammer is 12mm and 10mm framing. The problem is finding the fittings. If yo find a source, please let me know! I would also think that if you framed in 12mm it would be strong enough. Nator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoostuff Posted June 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 3 hours ago, HiNator86 said: I know the 9 meter Wosling kite is frames in close to 3/4" and the 12 meter one is framed in 1". I haven't asked Bernd in a few weeks about my 5 meter kite. But hopefully will get that heading my way soon. 15-18 foot dual, I would say that Icarex should be fine, and would agree that the frame, stitching, bridal, and line set will be more of a concern. Thor's Hammer is 12mm and 10mm framing. The problem is finding the fittings. If yo find a source, please let me know! I would also think that if you framed in 12mm it would be strong enough. Nator Thanks for the input. Hopefully, I can get what I need for framing locally. If fittings are a problem, I can have them custom machined at work, if need be. That gives me a slight advantage at least. I think I can manage any of the issues that come up, but It may involve some trial and error. We shall see, in due time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exult Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 18 hours ago, HiNator86 said: Thor's Hammer is 12mm and 10mm framing. The problem is finding the fittings. If yo find a source, please let me know! One way would be to look for spare parts for the HQ Fazer XXL, since the tube diameters of that kite also are 10mm and 12mm. (and if a shop carry a special item like this (an unusual connector e.g.) it is likely a good kite shop that could be considered to be supported by thinking one time extra if you have any current or future needs for items that could be bought there in the same order). OK this is clearly not your local kite shop, but Drachenmarkt in Germany got connectors for large kites – up to 14mm. Drachenmarkt still got the large Pure kite in their logotype b.t.w. Look for “Kategorien > Baumaterial / Ersatzteile > Verbinder, Stopper”, then navigate using the images if necessary. On 6/11/2019 at 6:09 AM, Voodoostuff said: I hadn’t considered the thread though. When comparing different thread dimensions you might get some parts of the puzzle from my rookie kite making topic. There I tried to make sense of the conventions used when describing thread “thicknesses” (actually mass per length or length per mass...) of threads. Diameters of something that is soft, like treads, is hard to measure and is therefore not (I presume) used to describe threads, but is used in a (almost sensible) way to describe the needles instead. Compare measuring a needle diameter with a caliper to trying to measure the diameter of a soft thread... See the “The Thread” section in the “List of Material...” post: https://kitelife.com/forum/topic/8756-a-first-model-kite-probing-the-kite-building-ground/?do=findComment&comment=70689 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoostuff Posted June 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/12/2019 at 5:26 AM, Exult said: One way would be to look for spare parts for the HQ Fazer XXL, since the tube diameters of that kite also are 10mm and 12mm. (and if a shop carry a special item like this (an unusual connector e.g.) it is likely a good kite shop that could be considered to be supported by thinking one time extra if you have any current or future needs for items that could be bought there in the same order). OK this is clearly not your local kite shop, but Drachenmarkt in Germany got connectors for large kites – up to 14mm. Drachenmarkt still got the large Pure kite in their logotype b.t.w. Look for “Kategorien > Baumaterial / Ersatzteile > Verbinder, Stopper”, then navigate using the images if necessary. When comparing different thread dimensions you might get some parts of the puzzle from my rookie kite making topic. There I tried to make sense of the conventions used when describing thread “thicknesses” (actually mass per length or length per mass...) of threads. Diameters of something that is soft, like treads, is hard to measure and is therefore not (I presume) used to describe threads, but is used in a (almost sensible) way to describe the needles instead. Compare measuring a needle diameter with a caliper to trying to measure the diameter of a soft thread... See the “The Thread” section in the “List of Material...” post: https://kitelife.com/forum/topic/8756-a-first-model-kite-probing-the-kite-building-ground/?do=findComment&comment=70689 Thanks very much. Appreciate the info, and suggestions for parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuul Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 Icarex is a material originally use for boat sails. (It's spinnaker cloth.) It should be more than strong enough for what you are doing, but if you are still concerned similar materials are available in heavier weights. I think you could benefit by calling a sail-maker and discussing the project with them. In addition to helping you with selecting and sourcing a fabric, they can probably give you some tips on the best construction techniques. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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