frob

Sounds like both needed more wind. Try again on a stronger day and compare experiences.

Thanks! You can get there too if you'd like. I've posted lots of video clips and tons of questions across several years. Not being near the kite groups means more effort to work with people, but I've found the community is very supportive with feedback overall. I've got some old recordings from 2016 struggling outdoor to consistently reverse without flipping, and working through the various basic team fly maneuvers. I joined this site back in 2017, and some of my earlier posts have video links. Five years later and I'm doing demos and traveling to kite festivals where I'm excited to be inside the ring. This one is a blast from the past for me, almost exactly four years ago: Now I'm here looking at fancy indoor flying techniques.

Well, it's been quiet in here for a few months, so time to post. My current practice topic for indoor is a 360 zigzag (not sure if there's a better name for it). You can see some progression from earlier indoor sessions on YouTube, but here's the current one: I know the swoopy-ness at the bottom is an issue, and I'm not sure what to do about it yet. I think more experiments about how and when to apply power will improve it. Even though I try keep it pulled back, I find that sometimes I slip back into letting the bottom hand go out a little instead of tucked in tight. I've found letting the bottom hand out helps with depowering, pulling it back re-powers, so maybe there's something there for efficiency even though it doesn't keep the kite upright. Unlike slower more floaty actions, these zig-zags make my arms tire out quickly. I'm not sure if that's just the nature of the motion since people only do a round or two, or if there are some efficiencies I'm just missing. Hopefully a few more morning sessions will make it easier. Simply getting out there and doing it is a good way to build the muscles, and reviewing it on video helps me get a better view. Even so, if you recognize something else or have some suggestions, please let me know so I don't spend my time reinventing it. Thanks for your constructive feedback.

Ohh, a discontinued Q Pro. They're sometimes talked about as a competition kite.

Woot, one week left until somebody gets some sleek new lines. Please pick me random number generator, all my 120's are getting scratchy and old.

Repeating some terminology from above so hopefully you (and those who follow after) can use terms a little better. Spectra and Dyneema are trademark names for the underlying polyethylene material. ALL the line sets discussed above (Matrix line, Laser Pro Gold, Shanti Skybond, Shanti Warp Speed) ALL of them are line sets made from the underlying polyethylene material. Different companies form the material into different weaves and different coatings, so their various brand names differentiate them. You can also buy generic non-branded Spectra and Dyneema. My first experience was with SpiderLine Spectra line, and I've still got some of that blue stuff in my kite bag. Spectra and Dyneema are trademarks for the polyethylene fibers, and the fibers are used in many products including kite lines, fishing lines, and ropes. Laser Pro Gold, Shanti Skybond, Shanti Warp Speed, Level One Matrix, all of these are trademark names for individual brands of kite line with their own particular fiber layout, weave, and coatings. You can also get Spectra and Dyneema lines from other manufacturers, either as store brands or no-name brands. As a parallel, you might have a manufacturer buy DuPont branded fiberglass or 3M branded fiberglass, or fiberglass from a smaller less-known company. Then you could turn that fiberglass into Owens Corning R3 Fiberglass insulation, or turn that fiberglass into Goodwinds Fiberglass Rods, or turn that fiberglass into USBody Fiberglass Automotive Body Panels. One set of names refers to the underlying materials, another set of names refers to their finished kite line products. A difficulty is that the companies use distribution networks rather than selling directly to consumers. You need to find stores that sell the products or are authorized to sell it and order through them. Even if they don't have bulk spools listed on their web site they likely either have spools of it in the stock room or can order some to be shipped directly to your home with drop shipping. The Kite Shoppe sells LPG but doesn't sell bulk on their website. Call. (They're a site sponsor.) Highline Kites also sell Skybond and generic Spectra/Dynema, call about buying spools. (They're also a site sponsor.) KiteForge now is an authorized LPG reseller, probably fastest to send John a direct message asking about a spool. A Wind Of Change sells bulk spools on their website: bulk LPG, Skybond, and Warp Speed. Kites And Fun Things sells Shanti Skybond, Warp Speed, and generic Spectra/Dyneema, call about a spool. Flying Smiles you're already familiar with, they can get a lot of things. Many other kite stores stock it or are authorized resellers for the various brands and can order it special for you.

Not directly, no. Having friends can help you get to shore, and then someone with a dry phone can call emergency systems. It is critical that you know how to self-rescue for anything on open water. Since it seems you're asking about kiteboarding, go with friends, always wear proper safety gear, and always make sure you know what you're doing BEFORE you go out. Learn how to fly, control your kite, depower, repower, and otherwise control everything while on dry ground, then add the complexity of doing it on water with the help of experienced friends. Know your safety equipment and be proficient at using it. Repeating a third time because it is absolutely critical: Practice how to self-rescue before you enter water. It should be practiced until it is automatic. Know how to depower, regain equipment while swimming supported by a life vest, and relaunch. These kites come with multiple safety systems, be comfortable releasing the bar, immediately grabbing the chicken loop, and then immediately grabbing the leash eject. You need to have it down pat so that even if you're out of control, confused, head underwater, or otherwise in a panic you can engage each safety immediately and without hesitation.

I would keep all of them unless there was a pressing reason to sell. Many are classic kites, some are more modern. All of them can give new insights on flying, or provide different experiences. Some of them are unique classic kites, well-known for some notable trait or another. Flying them yourself can be a valuable learning experience. For your list of specific needs as the definite keepers that you fly actively, I'd say the Wren, Pro Dancers, some Decas, the Indoor Rev, Rev EXPs, Rev SLE, Rev Blast, a few of the vented (there are many great options) and all the Rokkakus (except 89 only because I don't like the art) would be great for everyday use. Those cover the full range of your list. Even so, personally I would find it hard to part with most of them; each satisfies a different itch. The number of overlapping ranges is a good thing, just like choosing between various outfits when any would be acceptable, choosing among the different kites can be based on your mood that day and it is nice to have options. It would be a pleasure to fly any of them. A few are a little dated, and you'd want to inspect the bungees and fittings on them before flying, none look bad. Even several of those kid-friendly kites (129-132, several of the smaller parafoils, etc) even if I wasn't flying I'd feel happy to hand off to a kid just to watch their faces light up as they fly. Others are more specialty for show kites, like the wooden biplane, helicopter, and clipper ship; they are unusual and fun to see at a festival among a cloud of deltas and parafoils. I can see why he kept that as a collection rather than selling or giving them away.

At that size the kite will lift quite a lot, but it depends tremendously on the wind. On a light wind day the kite will struggle to stay aloft even without a tail. On a strong wind day with gusts at 15 or 20 MPH you'll probably be wanting to anchor the kite down due to strong pull. From what I can see, the Stratosphere has six attachment points, but that doesn't mean all six should be loaded down. It should have no problem holding a few tube tails. Adding line laundry in addition to the tails will depend entirely on the wind. The added weight from moving to 150# dacron to 200# or 250# dacron shouldn't be an issue in good wind. In light wind where it could matter you would also be struggling to keep the kite up anyway, and it wouldn't be a matter of tails dragging it down.

And part of today's practice focused on trying to flip from forward flight into reverse flight as smooth as possible. I still sometimes find myself with my lower hand extended a bit, and sometimes find the upper lines going slack or rarely having the thing collapse, but it's getting less frequent. I think I'll keep it my focus until I can reliably do a smooth turn that starts to approach a bicycle or traveling bicycle, just a smooth turn from flying in one direction forward into flying the same direction in reverse, then smoothly flying back again.

As the board is quiet, and it's been about 18 months since starting the topic, here's a current video: (I'm now regularly posting videos of my flying. Not all the sessions, but enough.) About the first 10 minutes of this clip are still focusing on improving the basic reverse 360s. I'm comfortable with my goal from 18 months ago, which is to be able to do it consistently on demand. If I could go back in time and teach myself, here are what I'd do: The biggest #1 issue was keeping the sail engaged. There MUST be pressure kept in the sail. Even now, 18 months and about 37 actual-time-on-the-line practice hours later (and 4 performance hours later) my biggest source of problems is keeping the sail pressure up. Don't be afraid to take a few steps back or interrupting other motion to add sail pressure. Walk backward faster. Faster pace and larger backward steps. It may not look like much, but it must be much stronger than what I was initially doing, the precise speed is variable but must be strong enough to keep the kite under pressure. Even though it is "casual flying", I personally need to think of it as far more athletic than I initially was. Yes, this means dripping sweat, and that's okay. When on the demo floor, the backward pace should be even faster. Not to fly faster, but for even more sail pressure to make sure you've always got enough. If you aren't sweating hard at the end of a 3 minute song, you weren't pushing yourself hard enough. Other performers were working that hard, you just were never close enough to see/smell it. There is a reason the actual demo sets are so short, not because they're just on for one song, but because they're in a performance mindset they're putting that much more athletic effort into it. Speed increases sail pressure, just like outdoor. Basically, it's Bernoulli wing lift. Going faster in reverse is often easier than going slower in reverse. Try to keep it even, but the motion itself is critical to help ensure pressure. The initial tuning I did myself was good, but after some tuning with Weider and Fletch, could be pushed just a little more to good effect. It absolutely needed it when new. The increased tension means less effort to keep it engaged, it is already under tension and pre-engaged. Keep the bottom hand tucked in. I'm still working on this. Even though it can feel easier and more relaxed to keep both hands out, keeping the bottom hand in keeps the kite more engaged. Stick with the pattern of forward drive, sweep up, then back down into reverse. To come out of it and go to forward flight requires significant drive, and therefore, even more reverse walking and sail pressure. Don't do that downward turn, you misremembered. Always be pulling something upward. The wingtip pendulum (which I had worked on outdoors) works great indoors for changing direction with relatively little pressure. The dizziness will pass with experience and practice. Trying to be mindful of the compass points helps, but not as much as treating it like looking out the car window; focus on the kite being in front of me and stable, let the scenery pass. My most helpful practice times (which include the first 10 minutes of the practice in this video) begin with trying to keep the sail under stable pressure regardless of air conditioning and walking through my own wake. If the sail pressure isn't there, everything else falls apart.

I think it takes both kinds. Variety is the spice of life. As an inland flier used to flying where moment to moment varies by 5-10 mph, I tire of the rough stuff. Although they're many months between getting out there, I love getting to the beach with smooth predictable wind. As posted by a neighbor when we flew together: The beach with smooth, flat winds is my rare experience. Right now I'd love a day at the beach with silky smooth winds.

Video and email address.

Lights vary tremendously. They range from individual LEDs on elastic, to keeping the kite lit up, to LED strips to fully computer controlled color lights. Finger lights are cheap, potentially a few cents each. Northern Lights are a recent decent backlight on spars. Fancier lights are custom.

Both, for now you can work on the practice part. For me, the biggest help was to break it down. I could fly up, and slowly back down. Could I back down faster? Could I back down slowly with precision? That is reverse. I could fly up diagonally, and back down diagonally. Could I back down at a different speed, or more precisely? Again, that is reverse. I could do a dive stop and back up slightly to flip around. That little piece was reverse. If you can hold an inverted hover, that is reversed against gravity. Hold it steady as long as you can. When you are ready, slowly back up more. As slowly as necessary, work to increase the height of the inverted hover. That's all reverse. I could fly forward horizontal but reverse would flip, so I did it at an angle, about 30' or 60', backing up as triangles slowly. Go super slow at first. Practice those elements. Look at ways you are already reversing and do more of it. Do it slowly with more deliberate motion. Hold on as long as you can. Try to recover when it flips, then try again to hold and repeat. For tuning, as mentioned above, more brake helps. The default Rev leader lines have a lot of forward drive built in, but reverse is the opposite of forward drive. More brakes helps.

I have not seen many items I wanted to join in. For the few I was interested in, many others were too. There are many posts of people cleaning the closet and posting items they never flew, new in original packaging, or only lightly used. I don't have that, I use everything I have. I think mostly I could offer a gift card, rather than a closet full of items to pass along. Combined and for me personally the drawings don't work. Don't get me wrong, I like that they happen, but I feel it is difficult to participate unless you are already knee deep in gear and have more than you can use. There is little for newcomers or those with a small bag of gear. If there were a way to address it, a way to pass along the good will without already having a pile of gear ready to part with, I would want to participate more. Is there a way to get it more inclusive? I think of people who are able to gift equipment to those who would use it, but it doesn't work well with "pay it forward" while within the kite world. I recall some drawings where the winners offered kitelife.com subscriptions and gift cards to kite stores, that type of seeding the pot back up could help. I don't know how it might work, though.

Done, signed, and now have a video up. The vented sail won't be done any time soon, I've got hours of soldering left. Sadly I have learned that while most parts hold up well, the solder joints are a weak point. They're a tiny blob of tin, silver, and copper, and are brittle. While it can hold up for most flying, too much stress or jostling can break a solder joint. I learned from prototypes that a hard crash can break a solder joint. Folding and rolling up the kite can break solder joints if it puts too much pressure on the wire. While putting on the bridle and spars I already had two break off, but they're easily soldered back on although I need to be careful not to melt the sail. It looks much nicer than the taped-down version I was using, and should be a lot more solid than before. Forecast looks good, so I'll probably get the first flight at Kite Fest Louisiane. Thanks for the help and support, and hopefully when I get back I can post a video of it in flight.

Elastics and endcaps on, frame installed. With everything all together I'm at 367 grams. That's about 35 grams heavier than what I was using, but should still fly. The Rev with all the lights attached drove like a tank. Sadly it was not durable like a tank. This version feels sturdy, and also easily repaired if something should go wrong. I'm excited to get a bridle on and see how this thing moves.

Two more checkmarks for the full sail. ✔ Sew on LED light strips on both kites ✔ Final soldering for joints on LED light strips on both kites (48 solder joints. Eeek.) And while I haven't sewn on the final cover/trim, the LEDs are taped into place: Remaining for this kite: ⬜ Sew on LED strip covers (bonus task) ⬜ Tie bridles ⬜ Attach bridles, elastics, and endcaps ⬜ Create kite bags for both kites

It is different. I've tried them at events, but never spent the money for owning my own. Not because I haven't put it in my virtual shopping cart enough times, but because when it comes to actually slapping down the money I've decided to prioritize other kites above it. They're fun, but not my type of fun. It still maneuvers, it is still controlled in basically the same way. It has less forward drive. The Fulcrum doesn't glide as well, nor side-slide as well. While it is precise, it also feels like it has less stable flight. In some regards it is similar to the difference in dual lines between a freestyle trick kite versus a solid straight team flier. That's good if you're looking to do acrobatic tricks, something the Hadzicki wing doesn't have many of. I've seen people do all kinds of acrobatics that look more like dual line freestyle tricks than quad line flying. As you are close enough to actually fly with other owners, I recommend you ask to try theirs. Then you can see the flavor and see if you enjoy it or not.

Done with the other leading edge. It only took about 2 hours this time. This bit right here has been the hardest to sew in each one, followed by the end tip: It's the reflective tape on the front, Dacron stretch strip in the back, Icarex from the body, plus 2x Dacron (4x in the overlap) for the leading edge, and the mesh which isn't difficult ... all of that tripled because it is a folded hem. 24 layer thickness. Every step I needed to manually push the needle down while turning the machine's wheel, and manually help pull it back out. Some required driving a hole through it gradually to get through all the layers. Same with the two pieces at the end with all the folded over bits to make a non-fray corner, lots and lots of layers mean I'm basically manually stitching each one of the triple zigzag. So the sails are basically complete. There is certainly room for improvement, those tiny white corners on the leading edge bug me. I think next time I'll need to make the LE about an inch narrower, which should help it on either side. Stitching isn't perfect, but should be adequate. I'm likely going to be the only person most concerned about how some of the zigzag stitches are narrow, some wide, some rather strange looking. But it should hold: Even so, that's some more checkmarks down the long list: ✔ Figure out paper prototype dimensions ✔ Cut and tape paper prototype ✔ Verify paper prototype, refine template ✔ Cut pieces for full sail ✔ Sew full sail body ✔ Cut pieces for vented sail ✔ Sew vented sail body ✔ Prepare reinforcements ✔ Sew reinforcements on both sails ✔ Sew hems on both sails ✔ Apply fray check and check all the details ✔ Cut leading edge pieces ✔ Sew both leading edges ✔ Attach both leading edges ⬜ Sew on LED light strips on both kites ⬜ Final soldering for joints on LED light strips on both kites (48 solder joints. Eeek.) ⬜ Tie bridles ⬜ Attach bridles, elastics, and endcaps ⬜ Create kite bags for both kites

What do you want to know about it? Are you asking about that specific kite? Or is this a "want to buy" type post where you're looking for something visually similar? If so, what's the price range? Their ITW branded kites are typically pretty good. Not Peter Lynn good, but far better than Walmart specials. ITW fills a good slot in the beginner/intermediate market.

No effects due to heat (or winter cold), but having it with you comes with a dramatically increased chance of flying. Take the opportunity when you can, even if that means stopping at a park on your way home, or pulling off the side of the road on a long country drive.

Finally found the time to attach the first of the leading edges. 2.5 hours to attach the first one. The endpoints and the center were by far the hardest parts. If you look closely, the Dacron has: outside layer, folded over layer for a non-fray edge, overlapped layer to make it 3.5 inches, doubled for front and back (x2 layers), plus the Icarex which is tripled at the hem, all with a folded hem (x3 layers). That's 12-16 layers of Dacron, 3-9 layers of Icarex, and 3 layers of mesh. Each of those stitches took several impacts to push through. It might have been easier to hand-stich those bits with a sewing awl. The rest of it sewed on relatively easily. Plenty of uneven stitching as the tensions constantly changed. Each time I hit a Dacron strip the zigzag changes length, switching from a 3-layer of Icarex to 3-layer of both Dacron and Icarex really slowed things down. But at least it is all on. The reflective strip is bright. It should mix well with the LEDs when I get to that step. Hopefully the second leading edge for the vented kite will go faster, maybe 2 hours. That's for another night.

That's an amazing find. Fly with them every chance you get.