Reef Runner

Hey Donald, I wish I had other fliers, and festivals, close by. Just doesn't seem to happen, anywhere, close by, however, I do agree with your advice. Unfortunately, as for myself, I have had to buy and sell, buy and sell, until I finally came up with kites, lines, etc, that I felt good about. BTW, welcome to Kitelife...............glad to see you posting

Michael, I'm sure everyone has their favorite. Lines are like opinions, everyone has one. IMHO, you simply need to get a top quality, "brand-name", spectra line. Spectra seems to be the choice fiber, for kite lines, especially those that wrap, which covers most all dual and quad line flying. Many will swear by Laser Pro, and Laser Pro Gold (iQuad, for instance), and they do seem to be the absolute favorite, for most "quad" line fliers. Another top spectra line, if you can find it, is called "Berry Blue Line". I have used this line, for all of my dual line sets, as well as many of my quad line sets, for years. Berry Blue is available in two different configurations. One is referred to as "Berry Blue Line 1000" (dark blue and highly visible), which is a pre-stretched flight line, made from Spectra 1000 fibers. The other is called "Berry Blue es/55" (a lighter blue color, but supposedly better line), which is likewise, a pre-stretched line, but made from Spectra 2000 fibers (this means 2000 fibers/line). Both are great lines for both dual and/or quad line kites. And then of course, there is "Dyneema" line, and of course "Shanti Speed Line", and the list probably goes on and on, but you'll do well, if you just pick a high quality line (all of the above mentioned fit into this catagory), and then you'll have to decide which you like the best.......again, it's personal preference. If I was purchasing line for a dual line kite, I would go with Berry Blue es/55. If I was purchasing line for my Revs (quad line), I would get Laser Pro Gold, but again, that's "MY" opinion, and I'm sure you will get many more........... Oh, and as for the strength / breaking issue, just try to abide by your kite manufacturer's recommendations, and you should be fine. If concerned about flying in the upper range of your wind range, bump the line up a notch..........

I've towed some pretty long tails, in the past, but not quite 100 feet. I believe the longest was an 80 foot tube tail, and I towed it with a Premier Magnum, no problems. Again, it takes some wind (10-15 mph) to get all this going. I've also towed twin 75 foot tails, with the same kite, one on each wingtip, but these were straight tails (not tubes). I surely don't disagree with Rob's choice, but having no flying experience, with the Hypnotist, I will have to throw in the Premier Magnum (I have two), as a suggestion. So far as being a tank, and having ample lift to haul big tails, the Magnum will also do the job well. Both kites have about an 8 foot wing span, which is surely enough, and if it's an issue, both are priced very similar (around $140 +/-). I do know that the Hypnotist has some specialized parts, which may be unique to that kite, and probably available only from Prism (or Prism dealers), while in contrast, the Magnum is framed up completely, with simple, old school parts. The entire kite is framed with plain old (straight), SkyShark tubing, probably P300 or P400 (can't remember), but is readily available most anywhere, making it a real breeze to repair, should you become so affixed on watching that tail, that you fly into a truck, or something As for the lines, I made-up a set of 150 foot lines, sometime back, just to use up on the sand dunes (plenty room). I made them with 150# line, and to be real honest, that's pretty long. Without a good 15 mph plus wind, you get a lot of sag and drag, from a set that long. It's almost as if your input, becomes very "mushy", which I suppose it does. Again, a lot of sag and drag. A 100 ft x 150# is plenty long, to handle that 100 ft tail. Remember, the tail is not going to be hanging straight down, after the initial take off, so don't worry about dragging it around on the ground, while you're flying. With the sufficient winds, to fly this set-up, the tail will be well off the ground and following the kite.............. Good luck with whichever kite you choose...............both will do the job, and look great doing it........... (My first Magnum - the "Red Sunset")

I like that idea. Maybe add a mini kite to keep 'em off of the road. 3 or 4 sq.in sails should do it if you stay above 60. I think you are on to something.................

I tend to agree with rex, however, I just don't think dunking the entire line, while it's on the winder, is going to really clean those lines, in particular, the layers that are deep down within the bundle. I think I would actually consider, hanging the lines (for lack of a better example), from a nail in one tree or post, to a nail in another tree, (you get the idea, anyway), so they are not draped down on the ground, but suspended, full length, from one set of loops, to the other. Then, I believe you could take a small bucket, containing your cleaning solution (whatever that might be), and a sponge, and walk along the suspended lines, from one end to the other, keeping the sponge saturated in the cleaning solution as needed, while wiping the lines as you go. You might even want to make a couple, or three passes, and then, if convenient, spray the whole thing with a water hose, or some other method, if you feel that rinsing is really necessary. Then leave the lines hanging in place, hopefully out in the sun, so they can air dry for a few minutes (or hook up a kite and some handles, and fly them till dry). Sounds like a bit of trouble, I agree, but to save a $90+ set of lines, probably not a bad few minutes to invest.......... But still, I think the most important part, is getting those lines dry, before putting them back onto a winder, especially, if they are going to remain there, for any extended period of time. Mildew happens a lot easier, than we may anticipate Please Note: this advice may be worth, exactly what you paid for it, but then again

Hey Wayne, maybe you should take those lines out of your kite bag, and bungee them to your radio antenna, for the trip. Assuming it's not raining, that should dry them out, through and through ........... Seriously, though, it doesn't take items like that, very long to sour, and mildew, if put up damp ps.........and no, I don't mean unwind them, and allow them to flap in the wind, dangling 120 feet behind the car

Don't know what time period you are talking about (goodly amount & another good bit), but what I would be concerned about is the inner layers of line, forming mildew, if left damp, at all. I would surely try and get them unwound, and out into the sunshine, as soon as possible. All you'll have to do is smell of them, and you'll know..............good luck, I'm sure they will be fine..... Have a great weekend & festival............... tell everyone hello, for me, from NC !

I wind my lines pretty tightly, onto the winders, so I'm not so sure that dipping and/or soaking them, would work well very well, especially on the inside layers of line. I really don't think that the inner section of the bundle, would even get wet, unless left in the solution for a very long time. Maybe if I unwound them, and rewound them onto a winder, quite a bit looser (?), that would help. My other concern would be drying them out (the whole thing) after the washing. I suppose if you went out immediately, and flew with them for a while (on a warm sunny day), that might dry them out sufficiently (?), but would flying with "extremely soaked lines", result in excessive stretching ? I don't know, never done it. I would however, be concerned about storing the lines, unless they were completely dry, through and through. I wouldn't know any way to be sure, short of unwinding them completely, and if you are going to do that, I suppose you could simply rig up something to hook them on, so you could suspend them from each end, out in the sun to dry. You probably wouldn't want to put them back in the old kite bag, before they were completely dry. Again, I don't know, as I've never done anything like that...........good luck, and let us know , how your "dip and soak" method works.........and, how you dry them out. Just curious ! (maybe you could expound a bit, on your "line laundering" process)

Hey Wayne, I'm curious. I think I may have experienced a similar dilemma, earlier this year (over here on the right coast). I flew out at the lake, a couple of days last month, and I noticed the same thing you have described. My question is, when you wash lines, are you washing them in a bundle (as they are wound onto the winder), or, are you stringing them out, and washing the entire length (every inch) ? I just don't exactly understand, how to wash a 120 foot line (or four) ?

Hey Paul, thanks for clearing things up. Glad to hear that you've got things rolling, and "new plans" in the works.......... Also, didn't mean to create controversy here on the forum (didn't know I had ?) I suppose I wasn't very well informed (my own fault), when I commented on the delay. I should have done a bit more investigation, before saying what I did, but I assure you, there was definitely no ill intent meant towards you, Focus, or the Manta. I think everyone is really looking forward to seeing it, back in the sky. As for what I said, please pay it no mind - just "noise", coming from the uninformed (me). Wayne got me straightened out, and then I was able to find additional information on-line. I do apologize, if I said anything, "out of line". It definitely wasn't meant, that way. Looking forward to the "New" stuff, that you've got in the works.................

It's about time you got back to W-O-R-K !! :cat_lol:

Ok, so I was off by a year. I didn't realize that the Manta had been out previously, until I saw the video, and then it was pretty obvious. It seems they (Focus) started announcing this transition in production, back in May 2010, or so. Still, it's hard to believe it's taking so long, no matter who it is, dragging their feet......... enuf said I suppose..........we aren't going to change things , so much for that ...........

Still - 4 years - That's ludicrous ! I spent 30+ years in the Textile Industry, and NO ONE in their right mind, would wait 4 years, to get a new design, on the cutting table........ That's just crazy, I don't care if it is "just" a kite............. Oh, and Wayne, I'm not doubting what you are saying, just that it doesn't make logical sense that someone would do that. I'm sure you are correct, though, but something is surely a-muck , or someone just doesn't care.......... (IMHO)

Still - 4 years - That's ludicrous ! I spent 30+ years in the Textile Industry, and NO ONE in their right mind, would wait 4 years, to get a new design, on the cutting table........ That's just crazy, I don't care if it is "just" a kite.............

I'm a little confused about this kite. There is a video of someone flying the Manta(s), indoors, that was posted back in 2009, so I wonder, what's the deal with not being available, until Summer of 2013 (whenever that's supposed to be) ? http://vimeo.com/6512083 Straight from the horses mouth: (ITW catalog) The Skate XXL A huge kite with four times the sail area of the Skate, Paul de Bakker's Manta flies in the same low to no-wind conditions as its little brother. Unlike the Skate, it's a more laid-back style of kite that doesn't require a lot of attention. There's something magical about this big kite as it floats effortlessly in a seemingly windless sky. 10'-8" x 8'-0". 36" case. 1 to 6 mph winds. Use 100-lb. Dacron line. Available Summer 2013.

%() %() %()

That sounds like a "double" NOT ! (but good luck anyway, Michael)

Yep, but they are way too expensive to ship (weight) cross country. Matt would be much better off with just a few zip-lock sandwich bags, full of sand, until he can make more permanent arrangements............. Now the cornhole bags would do the trick, very nicely, in fact, but should be available from someone locally, there in Everett, WA............ (Check Craigslist Matt)

Don't forget to take a "stuff sack" for the field................. 100 ft + 10 mph(+) = Frustration (with a capital "F")

N O T !

I'll assume that you are speaking of launching the foil on grass. Well, on sand, you can lay the kite on it's back (bridle side up), with the top of the kite (LE) downwind, and then pile some sand across the bottom edge (trailing edge). Then when you pull on the flight lines, the top of the kite comes up and catches wind, pulls the bottom out of the sand, and off it goes. So, now for the grass - do the very same thing. No sand right ! Ever heard of sand bags, bean bags, etc. Actually, I don't use sand bags, not that they wouldn't work, but I do have 3 bean bags, that I carry with me in my flight box, with I'm going to fly the foil, on grass. Instead of piling sand on the trailing edge, I just lay the bags (approx 4" x 8") there, which is just enough to hold it down. Then I go back and launch as usual, and the bags will fall right off, just as soon as the kite begins to lift. For a quick trial, just get yourself 3 or 4, quart size zip-lock bags, and put some dirt (sand, beans, or corn) in them. If that works for you, you might want to buy yourself a set of cornhole bags, or make something similar. (just my way of doing it)

150# should be adequate for anything with that set-up................

I've never flown a 100 foot tail, but I do have one that's 80 feet. When folded flat, it's about 3" wide, and yes, it takes a good 8 - 10 mph, preferably 10+, to lift it off the ground, and fly successfully. Of course, the tail does slow the kite quite a bit, and will drastically limit what can be done with it, however, a tail that large will definitely make a statement in the air, and draw quite a bit of attention. I agree with Rob, though, assuming that your kite can take the wind, and it should (it's rated 3 - 24 mph), you'll have a much better experience, closer to the 15 - 20 mph range. Ought to be a real sight ! Now, the down side of long tails, is folding them up, once you're done flying, especially if that 15 mph is still hanging around. I've found the best way to deal with that, is to have one of those plastic grocery bags in your pocket, and use it as a temporary stuff sack. Then, when you get back home, out of the wind, it will be much easier to deal with.......

Ok, that's the trick..........helium ! Hmmmmm!

But you know, even though they are a bit "$proud$" of the new "Manta", it does appear interesting.................10ft 8in................that's a bunch of sail, lift, ump, pull, go, etc, etc.......... (very interesting)