Reflex XX

[Alex D]

Been flying two line deltas for 20 years and interested in getting a quad. I can get a like new Reflex XX from a friend and have spent some evenings here to read up and am getting the feeling that as far as Rev kites the XX is shunned and disliked. Most here recommend the 1.5/1.5RX or better the B/classic if one can find one these days.

I am interested in expert comments why the XX is so disliked vs the 1.5/RX/B versions?

Thanks!!

[Paul LaMasters]

I own an XX, but it is a very early prototype. I also own a bunch of others models, various brands and sail configurations and live to compare kites.

first problem? Severe oversteer, you release the steering wheel and the vehicle goes wildly off the road instantly,... I hate that! If you want to turn in the center of the sail, this model is fun, if you want wingtip turns keep away.

secondly, it is way too heavy for a low wind kite, it flies but graceful like a cattle truck,... heyitprobably survives your learning crashes though

third, none of the framing members in my possession fit this model, 

fourth, you will be the only XX owner in your kite club,... is that good?

i would sell mine, but everyone I know is too smart locally, can't give it away either as it was a trade for flawed diamond tubes custom ordered for the Zen,... rather than "make it right" (they were too long) Rev sent the XX instead.  That action ended a 25 year relationship good for a thousand dollars each season, not thru retailers direct from the factory!

[Bunduki Vlieger]

I just sold my Reflex XX yesterday. I am not sad about it.

I agree with Paul. Above all points 2 and 3 were a reason for me to sell.

Besides, I can't do anything with the reflex stuff. I don't see/feel any difference if the springs are on or off. 

I stick to the 1.5 form. And if you want to have something bigger, a Detox (esste.com), which has a size between a Rev I and 1.5, would be an interesting and high quality (!) choice.

By the way, Los Hermanos has just had a sale. Just ask Pedro (facebook.com/loshermanos).

[riffclown]

I owned one of the first ones that Paul ever flew and  came very close to trading him mine for a very special kite I ended up just buying from him. .. I sold mine as well a few months later and haven't even considered at a new Rev since. 

[Alex D]

Thanks guys !! Seems like I should reconsider. Does Los Hermanos ship to the US or sell in the US?

Also, from the current available Revolution kites I assume you would recommend the Reflex RX, right? Or is the NYM the better choice?

[Bunduki Vlieger]

Worldwide and over 300 EUR free.

I just had talked to Pedro yesterday. Great customer service !! I know only one other manufacturer who was so customer friendly and helpful when ordering: Some guy named @John Barresi

The Detox has a good reputation for craftsmanship and flies very precisely. 

[Bunduki Vlieger]

25 minutes ago, Alex D said:

Also, from the current available Revolution kites I assume you would recommend the Reflex RX, right? Or is the NYM the better choice?

RX: But that is the same! Please watch the YouTube video of Joe Hadzicki explaining the differences between the different Rev models. I don't understand the difference 

[Alex D]

1 minute ago, Bunduki Vlieger said:

RX: But that is the same! Please watch the YouTube video of Joe Hadzicki explaining the differences between the different Rev models. I don't understand the difference 

I saw that ... I don't think he adressed the difference in that video, which made me wonder what reason is there for launching a new product like the XX?

[Bunduki Vlieger]

Well... I don't know. I don't know enough about the scene. I just think the competitors do a lot better. But I'm sure others can explain that better here.

[riffclown]

The reason for the XX and RX and everything else in the Rev line at the moment is so they can add springs and still put the word "patented" on their kites and bags. The trademark for the Hadzicki design expired so ANYONE can make the shape now. After 20 years of getting feedback on how to make the kite better, folks like Bazzer, John Barresi, OSK and others are implementing those upgrades and making simply better kites. 

Rev added Springs and decided that that was the answer for everyone. They also changed their framing but not to be better, just to make it non compatible.

[Roger Day]

Happy Thanksgiving!  It's about the feel, and I know as an experienced duel line flyer you know what I mean.  I have never flow a Reflex.  I know it's higher end.  Like anything new, in my humble opinion, it's better to start with a basic model and graduate.  Bear in mind I am a rank amateur.  I started with an EXP, then went to New York Minute, then a Barresi 1.5, and now a Djinn.  I still love to fly my NYM.  The EXP I break out when I see him just sitting in my bag being lonely!  When you get the one your love, you will know.  Find one that "feels" right to you, and as John always says, practice, practice, practice.  Happy Flying!

[Alex D]

28 minutes ago, Roger Day said:

Happy Thanksgiving!  It's about the feel, and I know as an experienced duel line flyer you know what I mean.  I have never flow a Reflex.  I know it's higher end.  Like anything new, in my humble opinion, it's better to start with a basic model and graduate.  Bear in mind I am a rank amateur.  I started with an EXP, then went to New York Minute, then a Barresi 1.5, and now a Djinn.  I still love to fly my NYM.  The EXP I break out when I see him just sitting in my bag being lonely!  When you get the one your love, you will know.  Find one that "feels" right to you, and as John always says, practice, practice, practice.  Happy Flying!

Hi Roger. This is good advice. Riffclown also gave me fantastic advice and great option to consider!  How in your mind does the EXP compare vs the NYM and the 1.5B? I am leaning towards an EXP because at the price point and it seems to be a decent beginner.  I can see what I think. But I would like to know from you why you upgraded and what the differences are that you experienced.

[Bunduki Vlieger]

But apart from the price. The current EXP also all have the Reflex technology (with this spring). That makes no sense (except the price).

Buy rather a USED, original Rev 1.5, because you can get it for a reasonable price. You don't have to upgrade it but SUPPLEMENT it with another model for a different wind range (for example STD, MV, XT). Then you have a complete set.

[riffclown]

20 minutes ago, Alex D said:

Hi Roger. This is good advice. Riffclown also gave me fantastic advice and great option to consider!  How in your mind does the EXP compare vs the NYM and the 1.5B? I am leaning towards an EXP because at the price point and it seems to be a decent beginner.  I can see what I think. But I would like to know from you why you upgraded and what the differences are that you experienced.

EXP is a beginner kite and its main basic draw is that it comes ready to fly.. Lots of flyers start with an EXP but very few keep them once they start to progress in skill (except to let others try them). It would serve your well to learn on, but you'd be wanting more once you get flying more.

NYM is a bit higher end, but is a nice performer. It never really clicked for me.

The B Series was the standard by which all other kites were judged for many years. If you can find a used one for a good price, that is a great option.

If you have the opportunity to try other people's kites, that is your best single option, bar none.

[Alex D]

Thanks to all of you for helping me along!  Right now I cant find used Rev 1.5 anywhere. There is a store with new ones, but they want 315 for a 1.5 kit (no reflex) and 415 for a Rev 1.5B kit with lines and handles. A bit stiff for me and in that case I'd rather go with the excellent options riffclown suggested. On the other hand you can get a complete EXP on amazon for 185 ... unfortunately I don't have anyone to let me try out ...

[windwarrior]

36 minutes ago, Alex D said:

Thanks to all of you for helping me along!  Right now I cant find used Rev 1.5 anywhere. There is a store with new ones, but they want 315 for a 1.5 kit (no reflex) and 415 for a Rev 1.5B kit with lines and handles. A bit stiff for me and in that case I'd rather go with the excellent options riffclown suggested. On the other hand you can get a complete EXP on amazon for 185 ... unfortunately I don't have anyone to let me try out ...

I'd check out local pawn shops. Believe it or not, I've come across a few sets.

[makatakam]

Keep an eye on eBay and this forum. Used ones in good condition show up often, especially when the weather gets colder.