tangeled lines

[sky fish]

well folks my man went and got a rev and the second time we took it out the lines were so tangled that it took 45 minutes to straiten them out at witch point he was done with the experience with out even getting it in the air.what is the best way to wind on to make certain that this will not happen again?? I would like to have any and all help possible with getting him enjoying him self .please feel free to add any suggestions that come to mined. Thanks and good winds

[Mousie]

well folks my man went and got a rev and the second time we took it out the lines were so tangled that it took 45 minutes to straiten them out at witch point he was done with the experience with out even getting it in the air.what is the best way to wind on to make certain that this will not happen again?? I would like to have any and all help possible with getting him enjoying him self .please feel free to add any suggestions that come to mined. Thanks and good winds

At the risk of getting spanked by the monkey for saying this.... For a while, I didn't fly my rev because I was so frustrated with the lines doing exactly that. So, I decided that I would wind the lines (top and bottom) on the left hand side on a seperate winder from the right hand side... (I can see Monkey cringing now lol ).... but it worked so much better for me because i knew that i would be able to spend more time flying and less time untangling, and that I could look forward to it then.

Now that I am a little more comfortable with the revs, I can wind them up on one winder, however I still hold my breath a bit when i am getting ready to fly.

I am sure the experts will tell you a better way, but this helped me.

hugs

[Grandpa]

Hey Sky... I went through the same thing... 45 minutes of twisting and turning and cussing my first time out. Then I spent 10 minutes crashing and then 10 minutes winding the lines and packing up my stuff while thinking what a great way to spent $300.00!!! The next time out I staked the handles, walked out the lines... then I took one pair in each hand and pulled them tight, then spread my arms as far apart as possible before connecting them to the bridle. Then I went back to the handles and spread them apart from that end and all of the twists and tangles became two or three twists that could be fixed by turning the handles over a time or two!! I still crashed A LOT but my setup took 5 minutes instead of 45... so I had more time to crash. Be sure to check the line length... all must be equal... mine were off by more than two inches. When you finally get tired and want to pack it in... larkshead the right pair together and the left pair together. I put my first finger between the two pairs and wind in a figure 8 to the handles and larkshead the pairs together again. The key seems to be the line stretching and arm spreading to remove the false tangles and the careful winding at the end of the day.

[Baloo]

With you on that one Grandpa. Used to use two winders and if you are worried that might be the best way to go. Takes a little longer but pretty much GARUNTEED no tangles.

I wind as per Grandpa and mostly it takes seconds to loose the tangles. On an odd occasion you may need to pass the handles through each other but the twists are easy to work out. You MUST connect top and bottom of each side at kite end, wind in carefully then connect top and bottom at handle end.

John explains it well on the Rev B DVD, I know that is no help if you dont have one but maybe a friend can let you watch his. Please note I say WATCH not COPY.

Let us know how you get on.

[sky fish]

we have watch the dvd several times I thought of the two handles that sill might be best. he thought it was something that he did wrong since the lines were all wrapped around each other it was soooo bad .he actually mentioned a knife. ow hugs back at you mouse

[Spence Watson]

we have watch the dvd several times I thought of the two handles that sill might be best. he thought it was something that he did wrong since the lines were all wrapped around each other it was soooo bad .he actually mentioned a knife. ow hugs back at you mouse

I just use one winder, winding each pair individually, while keeping a finger between the lines so they don't tangle. Sometimes I use a little bit of about 50# string in a loop to attach each pair together.

[SKITCH]

Yeah....I had some problems as well.....not being familiar with multiple lines. It gets much better.....no matter which method you use. I've gone to one winder as well....but recommend the 2 winder system if you are worried about it. Using one winder DONT wind them up together. One side, then the other. I followed this recommendation. Whan you put it away....start with the right handle (or left....whichever you prefer....your choice here) and wind those two line as you walk to the kite.......when that is done...secure those lines to the handle. THEN, starting at the kite.....wind the other side lines...back to the handle. Next time you fly...just do the opposite.

Have not seen the video....so not sure what is taught there. You'll get it.

I was at Ocean Shores trying to learn when a car decided it HAD to drive right through where I was flying. I made the mistake of trying to walk around it. OOPS....major tangle and major mistake. I was lucky that there was a very experienced flyer on the beach...he caught me and helped me untangle the birds nest. Could not believe he actually stopped and took the time to do it.

Good luck.......

P

[ant man]

skitch that is great i have had people walk therugh my lines and tangle them up and just walk away like nothing happend .. not like i expected the help but he at least a sorry wou have been nice

[SKITCH]

skitch that is great i have had people walk therugh my lines and tangle them up and just walk away like nothing happend .. not like i expected the help but he at least a sorry wou have been nice

Yeah ANT, the guy was GREAT. I think his name was Jim....he used to fly with Cutting Edge a while back I guess. It was not Jim Barber. He knew how to fly Revs and was pretty damn good at it. He took some time with me and really helped me "get it" for the first time. Gave me some great advice on how to hold the handles and what to feel for. That day I was up and flying and really got over the nervousness I had about trying to get the hang of the quad. I still use the tips he gave me. Wish I could remember his last name. We drew a crowd on the beach and he ended up flying dualies with another couple just down the way. While he was helping me with my lines, another guy came up and started watching...I talked to him and he said that Jim had seen him on the beach the day before when he was having problems working with his Dual line and the guy helped him out as well and worked with him for quite a while. Seems to me this guy is doing a solo job of keeping the sport alive in his area. Wish I could afford to live at the beach and do the same!!!!

He said he does not do the forum thang....so I doubt he'll see this. Maybe Debbie will know who I'm talkin' about if she reads this....or someone else from the Ocean Shores area.

P

[Mousie]

skitch that is great i have had people walk therugh my lines and tangle them up and just walk away like nothing happend .. not like i expected the help but he at least a sorry wou have been nice

Yeah ANT, the guy was GREAT. I think his name was Jim....he used to fly with Cutting Edge a while back I guess. It was not Jim Barber. He knew how to fly Revs and was pretty damn good at it. He took some time with me and really helped me "get it" for the first time. Gave me some great advice on how to hold the handles and what to feel for. That day I was up and flying and really got over the nervousness I had about trying to get the hang of the quad. I still use the tips he gave me. Wish I could remember his last name. We drew a crowd on the beach and he ended up flying dualies with another couple just down the way. While he was helping me with my lines, another guy came up and started watching...I talked to him and he said that Jim had seen him on the beach the day before when he was having problems working with his Dual line and the guy helped him out as well and worked with him for quite a while. Seems to me this guy is doing a solo job of keeping the sport alive in his area. Wish I could afford to live at the beach and do the same!!!!

He said he does not do the forum thang....so I doubt he'll see this. Maybe Debbie will know who I'm talkin' about if she reads this....or someone else from the Ocean Shores area.

P

Skitch,

the man you are talking about is Jim Barber. He and his wife Monica own The Cutting Edge Kite shop in Ocean Shores WA. They are both wonderful people and go out of their way to help anyone that needs it. The both are very involved in The Northwest Sport Kite League and put on a Festival and competition every year. In fact, I was just attending it last weekend. They are both a gift to the kiting community, and Jim is indeed a part of the World Cup Winning team Cutting Edge.

http://cuttingedgekites.com/index1.htm

hugs Mousie

[harrier]

I have settled on one pair at a time, I slip a foam tube onto the handles and just wind the lines on, this allows me to undo the larksheads and slip the tube and line off the handle if I want to change lines, other lines are kept on similar tubes. It works ok no tangles.

[johnnmitchell]

This subject has repeated itself on practically every kiting forum whether it be in English, French, German, Spanish and etc.

From Day 1, I have always wound all lines together on to the same winder. The video that came with my REV I back in 1991 had Joe Hadzicki explaining exactly how to do it. I practically never have a problem with twists, unwinding and connecting my lines.

One big tip! When you unwind the lines, shake them out very well first before you even think about trying to unravel things. They very rarely have more then a single twist and maybe a single line feed through. Pull them, shake them even fly them out as they came off the winder. Then take those twists out.

Next tip! Always hold the winder in the same hand when you unwind and wind. This will eliminate majors twists.

Next tip! Always wind you own line, especially if you loan them to someone else. Don't accept offers from someone else to wind your lines for you.

Believe me, this works! I have wound and unwound quad lines several thousands of times.

[ant man]

well i must say thats new .. i never seen that before but hey what ever works is what i say.. less time tryin and more time flyin

[cbabbman]

I larks head top and bottom to each other on each side both at the kite end and handle end. I then take each pair, stick a finger between them and start winding.

When unwinding, I hold the winder in the same hand, unwind from the handles to the kite, take the pairs and stretch them out at arms length as mentioned above. Never had a problem in the year I've been flying by doing it that way.

[Red Doug]

Well, here's a different way.

I wind one of the pairs, starting from the staked handles, ending up at the kite. At that point I unhook both pairs from the kite, and pack up the kite.

Then I start winding the second pair on the same winder, ending up at the stake, unhook the second pair from it's handle and I'm ready to walk away.

Next time out, I hook the outer pair of lines to the first handle, hook it around the stake with the bottom, trailing edge line out for slack. If the wind isn't too strong, I can set the kite up leading edge down, hook up the second pair of lines and unwind back to the stake to hook up the second handle. In higher winds I'll weight the kite down with sand and walk back to the kite to set it up after staking out the lines.

I'm sure this isn't the fastest way, but since each pair is wound separately, the pairs won't tangle.

Doug L.

[Jim Foster]

cbabbman has it right. I put a knot in the very end of the sheathing of the top lines at one end and the botton lines at the other end. This keeps the lines the same length and allows you to larks head the sets together at both ends without them coming apart. I leave those knots in.

Detatch the lines from the kite and larks head each set together, then lay them on the ground.

Detatch the lines from the handles and larks head each set together.

Insert one set into one slot of the winder and the other set into the other slot.

With the winder in one hand, grab all four lines in the other hand with your index finger between the two sets.

I wind in a figure eight, holding the lines tight to the winder while walking toward the kite end of the lines as I wind. Pay no mind to the difference in length when you reach the end. No one seems to be able to explain why this happens.. Bungie the lines and you are done.

Next time, attatch the lines to the handles, stake them and unwind. This swaps the lines end for end each flight, which spreads the wear. When unwound, hold the two sets out to their respective sides and pull out any faux twists. You will seldom have more than one real twist.

Total setup, seldom over five minutes with 100' lines. Total take down, about the same.

Jim

[Penny Lingenfelter]

All those ideas are valid ways to wind and unwind.. but... should you find your lines have floated around loose, handles swinging through each other.. lines twisted more then normal... then what?

Walk your lines!

Do not try to untangle them before they are hooked up to kite and handles, or kite stake to stake. Anything to secure them and keep them from getting worse.

Usually I stake my handles w/lines attached to the ground. I walk my line out, at the end spreading my arms apart with a set of lines in each hand to get as many tangles out as possible, or the tangled mess slid closer to the handles. Laying the kite leading edge down, tips towards the lines, logo in front, I attach the kite. Now when I do get untangled the kite will be in a position to fly and less likely to take off uncontrolled.

Stepping inside my lines between my kite and the handles, between left and right lines, I grab a top line in each hand, walking up the lines towards the handles. I keep my fingers ready to separate the line and slide it up to the handles if necessary. If I'm lucky, there are only a few twist and the handle through itself only once.

When I 'm within reach of my handles I sit down, using my knees to keep the line on the ground (top lines) separated. I can then p/u one handle and weave it in and out to untangle the last of it. Or if it's really bad, take one line and one line only off of the handle and weave it out, then the other end of it.

Once, when I started out some two stringers (no offense) helped me by releasing the lines from the handles to unwind them.. all four.. no no.. don't do that! Walking your lines will get you going. Keep the lines loose and remember my mantra....

"It's never as bad as it looks; it's never as bad as it looks."

If they are super bad, 1st blame it on someone else putting them away. 2nd pull out other lines.

Then late at night when it's raining outside and there is no chance that you could be flying.. Cut 4 pieces of cardboard, about 2 inches x 2 inches. Cut a slit in them so you can secure a line in it and untangle the lines while watching a good kite video ~ with your choice of beverage. Weaving and winding the line on to the cardboard. Then transfer back to your winder.

BB Penny ~flying Laser Pro Gold

[Stephen Hoath]

skitch that is great i have had people walk therugh my lines and tangle them up and just walk away like nothing happend .. not like i expected the help but he at least a sorry wou have been nice

Yeah ANT, the guy was GREAT. I think his name was Jim....he used to fly with Cutting Edge a while back I guess. It was not Jim Barber. He knew how to fly Revs and was pretty damn good at it. He took some time with me and really helped me "get it" for the first time. Gave me some great advice on how to hold the handles and what to feel for. That day I was up and flying and really got over the nervousness I had about trying to get the hang of the quad. I still use the tips he gave me. Wish I could remember his last name. We drew a crowd on the beach and he ended up flying dualies with another couple just down the way. While he was helping me with my lines, another guy came up and started watching...I talked to him and he said that Jim had seen him on the beach the day before when he was having problems working with his Dual line and the guy helped him out as well and worked with him for quite a while. Seems to me this guy is doing a solo job of keeping the sport alive in his area. Wish I could afford to live at the beach and do the same!!!!

He said he does not do the forum thang....so I doubt he'll see this. Maybe Debbie will know who I'm talkin' about if she reads this....or someone else from the Ocean Shores area.

P

Skitch,

the man you are talking about is Jim Barber. He and his wife Monica own The Cutting Edge Kite shop in Ocean Shores WA. They are both wonderful people and go out of their way to help anyone that needs it. The both are very involved in The Northwest Sport Kite League and put on a Festival and competition every year. In fact, I was just attending it last weekend. They are both a gift to the kiting community, and Jim is indeed a part of the World Cup Winning team Cutting Edge.

http://cuttingedgekites.com/index1.htm

hugs Mousie

Skitch, you must be really good if you have a two time World Champion to wrap your lines up!! I gotta get me a kite roady

[Jim Foster]

Skitch, you must be really good if you have a two time World Champion to wrap your lines up!! I gotta get me a kite roady

Stephen

Laugh not!

At one of the Kite Partys in Huntington Beach there was to be a small quad mega fly on Sunday. Lines had been restricted to 50' that year, but 75' was to be used for the quad fly. Saturday evening at home I found an old set of 75s I hadn't flown for some time. On Sunday I went to set them up and they were a real mess. I was trying to get them untangled and looked up to find Ron Despojado and Mark Lummas helping to get me into the air.

Help from high places happens......and is very welcome.

Jim

[cbabbman]

The advice of always winding your own lines is very valid. I'm a lefty and always hold the winder in my left hand, both for winding and unwinding. I let a righty wind my lines once ans spent a good 1/2 hr untwisting my lines.

As for lines ending up being different lengths at the end of a wind, I gave up on that and just accept it as part of life. I'm usually off by an inch or so at the end which I attribute to the lines crossing over each other on the winder.

Also, when I finally connect my kite up, I ALWAYS set it up with the tips down and forward of the leading edge. This way, there is tension on the top of the kite which helps me unwind anything left over from the setup process. As mentioned above, it is NEVER as bad as it may initially seem and a few wists of the handles takes care of 99% of any problems I have. Also, I rarely ever have to walk back to the kite to stand it up again before flying which to me, is the ULTIMATE walk of shame.

For me, I have 2 pet peeves though.

I hate the crazy 8 winders as the lines constantly unwind irregularly and snag as I unwind. Sometimes I have to pull the line off by hand as I walk rather than just walking and allowing the line to fall off the winder. It doesn't add much more than seconds to my setup but is irritating. The laser pro winders on the other hand do not do this to me.

Because of the larks heading of the top and bottom set, there are times when the lines fall through each other when I initially undo the bungee to connect to my handles. This is also a pain and for some reason, I have real trouble visualizing the untangling process as usually one side of my pair has 5 or 6 twists in them that has to be undone before winding the handles through each other to straighten it all out. Again, this only adds a min or so to my setup time so I just deal with it.

In all, by adopting a consistent and unthinking process for setup and tear down, these problem are minimal and setup time only a few mins.

For all my Ozone power kites, I simple parapack my lines and have never had a single issue with them... ever.

Now once... and ONLY once, I wrapped my lines around my handles because I was in a hurry and it was a spectacular catastrophe as my lines were so unbelievably twisted that it took over an hour to untangle. Never again will I deviate from my ritual.

[wufer]

Two winders

One red (right)

One black

Top of both handles around spick

Wind out lines from handles to kite

When i get to kite, the short line is Allways the top one

Job done.

Derek.

[Mike]

The really important thing to remember, as has already been mentioned, is it is not as bad as it looks at first.

Here's my take on it.

I've been flying for years and no superstitions for me. I don't put a finger between the lines when I wrap and I don't use a winder most of the time.

I don't have a problem with tangles. It's usually a couple twists, sometimes one handle thru the other, and that's it.

Without a winder, I grab all four lines and wrap them around my handles walking towards the kites.

Then I larkshead the left pair together and the right pair together as others do.

Just make sure to point the top of the handles towards the kite both when winding and unwinding.

When using a winder, I randomly larkshead the top and bottom of one side together and then the other side. When I get to the other end, I larkshead the longer line onto the shorter line. I think the lines always come out uneven because you can't put exactly even tension on all 4 lines while you are winding.

I don't have a ritual about starting at the kite end or the handle end, I start at either end.

I probably always use the same hand, but I don't see how it would make a difference when unwinding the lines. Hold the winder with both hands, hold it with the left hand, hold it with the right hand, it seems to me it will always be oriented the same way and shouldn't make a difference.

I have 4 sets of 120' lines on winders that I loan out regularly. I assume to both lefties and righties. They wind up their own lines and I haven't had any problems with that either. Maybe I'm just lucky? Or maybe it's rule #1:

#1: It is not as bad as it looks.

Always stretch out the lines and move the twists towards one end before worrying about the tangles.

Spin one handle one way one or two times to see if it is better. If it's worse, spin it the other way 3 or 4 times.

Repeat with the other handle.

Look to see if you've got one handle thru the other. It's probably only one time thru, so if it isn't fixed with one pass, undo what you just did and try the other way.

When you've managed to get a big mess, Penny's way is a good way to solve it.

With the lines attached to both the kite and handles, and the handles staked out, walk that that tangle towards the handles. Loosen the tangle by pulling it apart and by pinching the lines between the tangle and your handles and sliding your hands towards the handles.

And finally, remember, is it is not as bad as it looks at first.

[Aerochic]

Mike, do you mean that you wind both sets of lines around the two handles held together???

I'm brand new to this, so I'm trying to seek the easiest (read: least complicated) way to do things right now.

[Spence Watson]

I guess the least complicated way would be to wind each line on a seperate winder, but that woud be a time-taker. Doing things the way I do (one winder, winding up one side at at time) I have never had a problem.

[Aerochic]

Yeah, Watty, I really don't want to use 2 winders for time & impatience reasons. I did think your method was pretty straightforward when I read it.