tbttfox Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Backstory: I've been flying kites for quite a while, and I have some experience, but I don't really have much knowledge about them. I grew up with a big front yard and my dad had a stack of about 6 diamond 2-line kites. I learned on those. Years later, he got a delta stunt kite. It was a lot of fun, but we broke it. Multiple times. Then he got his quad line, which was amazing fun. I'm still not great at it, though :-/ Eventually I moved out to LA on the beach (lucky me) and got my own frameless quad line (Peter Lynn Hornet 2.0), and my eyes were opened. I realized how much I didn't like the idea of frames. The airfoil just seems so much more elegant to me. But alas, I am missing something. The kite I got is fun: the pull is great and it handles just like it's supposed to but compared to my dad's quad, it's slow and flies like a 2 line that just happens to have breaks. So my question: I'm looking for a faster, frameless quad line kite. Something that flies more like a framed kite than a power kite. Does something like that exist? Can anybody suggest something like that for me? Edit: I understand that the only true way to get "Something that flies more like a framed kite than a power kite." is to just go ahead and get a framed one. That's not what I want. Thanks for the help! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadge Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 I don't know how easy it would be to get hold of in the States, but you want to look at the Spiderkites Smithi. It's a 4 line frameless foil kite but the way the cells are designed allows it to do far more than a 'normal' foil - up to point it can be flown sort of like a Rev* - it can stop inches from the ground, fly backwards, and lots more stuff a normal foil can't. *( I'm now putting on my tin helmet ready for incoming from the Rev fliers!! ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbttfox Posted August 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Looking at that video, that's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. And you're right. Looks like I'd have to do an international order to get it. (oops, I was wrong. Into the wind has it) Thanks Hadge! I'll certainly look into it. Anybody have any other suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 No flack from me, Hadge!! Kites are kites, whatever turns you on, works for me!! The world of Revs offers so much, just because you aren't good at it (yet), doesn't mean you can't be!! But if that doesn't work for you and something else does - have at it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 I fiddled around with building my own, a quad-line, delta/flying wing shaped foil. Like most of the others I've seen, it was slow and cumbersome, and tended to collapse suddenly in our twitchy Midwest winds. Any sudden changes in speed and/or direction tend to make a foil turn into a lifeless bag heading earthward. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed the challenge and I was flying one of my own creations, but it eventually became obvious that its limitations outweighed the benefits, benefits as in fun as opposed to work, especially in freaky winds. I couldn't fly it often enough because it needed the "right" wind. I watch videos of other quad-line foils, and see that they move very similarly to what I had built. I have nearly given up on the idea of building a "perfectly controllable" quad-line foil because of the difficulty of keeping the sail inflated to an adequate degree of "stiffness" to give the sail enough consistent reaction to inputs, especially sudden stops and reversing direction, punch-pull turns, spins and overall precision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadge Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 As I understand it, th Smithi has some sort of one way valve system designed into the cells that allows it to perform the moves it does. I haven't flown one, but it's on my list of kites I'd like to get at some point and my local kiteshop stocks them!. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 I would like to fly the Smithi to see how it compares to framed quad-lines. I see in the video that the leading edge and trailing differ. Some designs I have drafted would have the two being identical, with the air intake across the center of the sail. Another design involved an intricate series of flap valves, with intakes on both edges, which would prevent deflation during manouvres, but would also make it prohibitively expensive. I will try to find someone on this side of the Big Pond who can give me a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 My first quad line was a Flexifoil Sting. It's much smaller than their power kites, and quite maneuverable. You know you'll never get the performance of a framed quad, but I was able to fly it in reverse and hover inverted long before I ever touched a Rev. I doubt it could pull off the water play in that video though. The Sting is darn near indestructible, though I confess I've never broken a spar on a Rev. Some would say I'm not trying hard enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exult Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 On 8/31/2013 at 5:41 PM, makatakam said: I would like to fly the Smithi to see how it compares to framed quad-lines. Found this Rev/Smithi comparison Youtube video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3jiJphwC0w Impressive IMHO (did not know that any maneuverable foil like this existed until recently). However the hovers seems less well controlled than other framed quads or just not there (in other videos as well). Any other differences my non quad eyes have difficulties in seeing? Are the series of partial collapses of the Smithi at 1:41 (and 3:00) in the video intentional? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwmf Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 On 30-08-2013 at 10:02 AM, tbttfox said: Then he got his quad line, which was amazing fun. I'm still not great at it, though :-/ You got plenty advice on the foils (I started with power foils), so let me throw something different out there and say that what you said is easily improved. All that is required is the right information - to be perfectly honest, revs come from the factory such that they get into the air easily but then lack the precision control needed. To pile more on top of the lack of precision control, the factory videos and instructional material then teach bad mechanics (in my opinion) to the new pilot. I love my framed kites (including single line stuff), but having the wrong information can certainly make them unpleasant when you keep breaking sticks as a result (for single, dual or quad) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffclown Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 Convert a Symphony 2.2 to quad.. Flies plenty fast and stunts IMO better than the Smithi... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 I purchased years ago a Quadfoil 25, been the most used quad line kite I had until i started with Revs, I can say that ir flies very well, not exactly great but seems to be very forgiving in iffy winds. I don't beleive they are made anymore, but I do se them on ebay... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 Confirmed, no longer made - the designer (Ted Dougherty) is totally out of kiting now, far as I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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