RobB Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 So, I got my light wind Rev, with the hopes of being able to fly in the same wind my Prodancer SUL flies in. Disappointed... I mean, I could get the Zen to fly, but not easily... moved over to the dual lines, off & flying. The Zen is promising, but seems to need at least 2 mph of wind to fly the way I expected. Unfortunately, today was offering 1mph max ! The Zen sure is pretty in the sky, though... even though it's blue. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basicbill Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 Good to know. Nice kites. I think I'm coming to that realization... low winds... get out my NikNak. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHBKF Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 One technique I've learned from inland light wind flying, that sometimes works, is to do the following. When the fickle summer wind is erratic, light & fading, set up your light wind dualie, lean it back & stake the straps down. Next assemble the Zen & lay out the 50' x 50# line set. Park it in the proper upside-down position & go back to pick up the handles. Stand there for some appropriate amount of time waiting to feel the lightest puff wind on your neck, then attempt a launch. After you run out of room to move backward, walk out to the kite & put it in the leading edge up back in it original location. Back to the handles & wait some more. Flail the Zen around a bit then pack it up,. As the wind picks up don't be tempted to fly the Zen. Take it back to the vehicle. This should give you at least a few minutes light puffy wind. Enjoy your dualie kite remembering to glide out as much as possible to gain ground. As the wind fades to nothing set up & take down additional kites to tempt more wind to come. Trying different types of kites may help. If all this fails, fly the glider. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 I've played the "sacrifice" game at festivals - lol!! Had used a Std all morning and was tired of working so hard. So set up the Zen and hooked it on and flew during lunch. Sure enough the wind picked back up and I needed to go back to the Std that I hadn't broken down. Just left the Zen lying in the protected flier's zone the rest of the day! Musta scared the winds!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted August 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Yup, left the Zen sitting there to threaten the wind from coming back ! No, I really hoped to get some air time on that four liner ! It was hot, like 85* and I didn't feel like running around too much. I got the Zen to fly, but hovers, clockwork turns, even slides were a struggle. The biggest problem is probably my biased opinion of 4 vs.2, but I swear, it was 10x the work to keep the Zen in the air. I am so happy that I have a 4 line kite that will fly in 2-5 mph wind without the kind of work that I had to put into my 1.5 Black race kite, but I had hoped that it would go a little lower, into ProDancer territory, and pull me away from duallies even more. The scary thing is, I've been flying so much 4 line kite that I am noticeably rusty when I actually do get the duals out ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Every kite has some limitations, high or low! Only person I've seen fly in almost no wind outdoors is Eli (windpoacher). Dude is magic with quads!! Last summer after getting my Zen, I offered it to him to fly! He played around with it for a while, then gave it back with the words - "Too much kite for me!" Still laughing about that one!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 You're Rev 1.5 Std will go to zero with a little technique and by changing your attachments. For SUL winds on a Rev I attach my lines to little pigtails on the verts, like the Indoor. Race rods on a 1.5 will take you to zero. I do admit that I use the bridle and muscle it if the wind is gusty. Or I'll fly my Indoor, outside. That you don't want to take above 2mph (maybe 4 if you are on your toes...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 I prefer a dead calm, most of my experience with sport kites is in these conditions, really hoping for some day-break calm @ WSIKF I flew both days this weekend, only used one kite (Zen) and a couple of different line lengths, ~ shortest was 60 feet/90# LPG on 17 inch (measured across the gap) Titanium long throws, miracle set-up for 3D & flailing ~ I used both a set of 100 and 120s (one LPG and the other Skybond), each on 15 inch no-snags I can catch these lengths, but you have to hand-carry the kite most of the way back or the lines will become a tangled mess If there's a hint of wind at all, I prefer 100'/100# Skybond (for the Zen, it's not even fun to fly under fifty feet) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted August 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 I have been trying to learn to fly in lighter winds with a Rev, and have gotten better. I fly the 1.5 with the race rods down to maybe 3 mph on the 65' lines. I was able to get the Zen up & flying in these < 1 mph breezes, but only for short bursts. Still working on the technique, it's a little different than dual line light wind technique. One of the best ways I've found to learn light wind technique is to fly the Mid-Vent or Full Vent in winds at the bottom of their range. To give a better idea of the low wind, I got a little video of the ProDancer flying around. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basicbill Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Very nice. I enjoy your style of flying. And the nonchalant flip of the line stake at the end. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 That familiar "rowing" motion I so remember!! So smooth too! Easy to jerk any kite out of the sky in those light winds!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystainedskin Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Give it time young jedi . if you are only moving that much flying the dual..there is plenty of wind for that Zen or any Rev 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted August 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 You need to fly a Prodancer before making that judgement... I would've been running all over the place trying to fly the Sea Devil SUL. I could've flown the Zen, and I did... but just didn't want to work so hard. Sunday is a day for rest ! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 I've had the chance to fly a very light kite outdoors - the ID-OD! It flew when not much else did, but it was limited in the things you could do with it! The Zen will fly in light winds, but even it needs some to make it work!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Life is too short to stand still. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfish Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Just watched the video. Wow. Almost looks like you were flying in slow motion. I guess that's what it takes in winds that light. I like the color of the ProDancer too. Looks great in the sun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystainedskin Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Just giving you a hard time Revs need the same in low to no wind. Slow graceful small movements at all the right points.. Easy to overpower and lose all sail pressure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 I found the quads easier in no-wind & swirling conditions, but I know folks who can fly the stitching out of a dualie sail in any wind. So it's like anything else. If you practice enough, you'll make it look effortless too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted August 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 The Prodancer gives up a lot to be able to fly in those winds easily. It's fragile & twitchy, and really difficult to get any tricks out of. It is what I consider the 'gold standard' of true SUL duallies. Yes, better than the Prism Vapor in ease of flying in ultra-low winds. A Rev Indoor might be a more fair comparison. I had the Zen flying, using the rowing motion, flying back & forth, gaining altitude, but as soon as I stopped, I couldn't hold a position for more than a second. The kite slipped down, and either needed motion to stay in the air, or it would just fall to the ground. In about a month, when it starts to cool off, running around won't be so bad... but right now.... uggghh ! Too Hot ! I am looking forward to the next 2 mph day so I can see what the big Quad can really do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbailey49 Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 If you want to really get something out of the Zen, you need to get rid of the Zen frame. Those sticks are way too spongy and unresponsive. I fly it with a 2-wrap center and 3-wrap ends on the leading edge and black race verticals (this is the frame that Bazzer recommended to me for the Zen at TI this summer). The 2-wrap lets the center flex to load the sail properly, but the rest has the stiffness you need to not let it all spill out. For my money though, the best Rev for low to no wind is a B-Pro Standard with Diamonds on short lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Happy to swap your Zen with my Indoor.... Just throwing it out there ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 I'm in the stiffer frame camp, using the 2 wrap center, race wingtips, and Zen verts! Extra weight helps in turns too! The stock frame just doesn't load fast enough or hold air enough for me! If I had them, I'd give the 3 wrap wingtips a try too! Some have used a full race frame (either black or green) in theirs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted August 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Could someone explain the 'Zen' frame ? What is it aimed at ? As light weight as possible ? What does changing to a hybrid frame do for you ? Other than being stiffer, does the bottom end wind range benefit or suffer ? @Rob... if you had caught me out in the field that day, I may have gone for that swap. Being that we have m-a-y-b-e 10 days a year when the wind is this low, I don't know if an indoor Rev would be the kite for me. This was the kind of day that a glider would've been the best choice out of the bag. The ProDancer is very close to a glider in it's bottom wind range, but a glider would win out in the end. a quote from the SkyBurner website... This kite is durable enough for outdoor flying and yet light enough for great indoor performance. It generates pull in .5 mph wind. No running required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Zen - I always used black race rods with a 2 wrap center, that's it, never liked the actual Zen rods for an active style of flying, just too spongy and flexible (distortion of airfoil). Also note, the "throttle range" on a Zen (margin between forward/reverse is very small (smaller than a 1.5) so it's easy to lose drive if you over-control, and it does NOT like to hover except inverted... It's about "Zen", perpetual, controlled flight, glides, articulate turns and careful sail loading... Once mastered, it can generate a ton of sail pressure and hang time (glide). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Didn't find that changing the frame moved the wind range much, but made whatever you had, work better!! I agree on the motion aspect, once moving, it keeps working. Stall it and it just wants to fall! It is really easy to overcontrol!! Soft, smooth, easy on the controls! Doesn't like to be jerked around!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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