Breaking spars

[hapes]

First time flying my quad, an EXP, in probably too high wind.  I think I have 85' lines.  I got it in the air for about 3 minutes before slamming it into the ground basically out of control, snapping one of the vertical spars in three.  I don't have a problem with buying new spars, but is there a way to slow down the turns so that I can keep control? This would only be until I understand the mechanics better.

[riffclown]

Is it one of the newer Green Trimmed Rods? They've had issues with being prone to breaking. If one of those and the kite is relatively new, I'd say contact Revolution concerning the issue. There's a good chance they might replace it for you..

There's a topic in Quad Heads concerning the rods themselves..
http://kitelife.com/forum/topic/7033-rods-the-difference/

And if the impact with the ground was the type that's your fault and would have broken anything, (it happens to all of us at some point) then there are suitable replacements available from many vendors. I tend to like the Sky Sharks. Both "Into The Wind" and The Kite Shoppe have suitable replacements available for purchase..

As for avoiding the impacts with the ground, first make sure your flying lines are equalized. The best advice kite-wise is fly in lighter conditions initially and really get to know the flying aspects of your kite. Resist the temptation to start tweaking your setup until you are familiar with the stock setup. As you progress in skill your comfort level will increase along with your confidence level. Keep your kite high off the ground until you are very familiar with the way it flies.You can then start tweaking it to suit your flying preferences and style..

[oapbillf]

You are probably flying using standard handles with leaders that are the same length, this means that you are overdriving the kite and cannot apply enough brake to easily slow down.

Have a look at JB,s leaders in the videos to see what I mean, I would give you a link to the Rev Forum but for the last couple of days it has been unavailable ???   When it is up and running search for " my leaders your thoughts " this could help.

It does sound as if you were flying in highish winds but rod breakage does happen now and then for unexplained reasons, I broke a Diamond rod just flying across the window, thats the only one so far !

Bill 

[Wayne Dowler]

Equalizing lines, longer top leaders, - all help! Single best piece of advice I can give - Learn to "Give to the Kite"! What do I mean? When the kite is gonna crash - let it!!!! Step forward, in extreme cases - throw the handles at the kite! DO NOT PULL! Pulling only drives the kite harder into the ground!! Better to go and straighten up things, than to go find something broken!

Throw the stated wind range out the window for learning - shoot for 6-10 mph. Less and you struggle to keep airborne, more and the kite can get out of control. 6-10 gives you a better chance to learn the controls without fighting the kite.

[John Barresi]

3 hours ago, oapbillf said:

You are probably flying using standard handles with leaders that are the same length, this means that you are overdriving the kite and cannot apply enough brake to easily slow down.

Have a look at JB,s leaders in the videos to see what I mean, I would give you a link to the Rev Forum but for the last couple of days it has been unavailable ???   When it is up and running search for " my leaders your thoughts " this could help.

Parallel discussions, in lieu of Rev forum access...

http://kitelife.com/forum/topic/5530-pigtails-tuning-your-rev-with-knotted-leaders/

http://kitelife.com/forum/topic/6943-need-leaders-for-your-rev/

And a tutorial (paid access)...

http://kitelife.com/forum/files/file/684-rev-tutorial-tuning-theory-i/

[hapes]

Thanks everyone for the tips.  I think the wind is just too much for the EXP.  I picked up a vented quad and they threw in some knotted leaders for free.  Kites Unlimited in Atlantic Beach, NC.  I went back there after I broke the center leading edge spar.  Bought another of those and the Freilite Max.  Hopefully it will be more forgiving n the high winds.

[hapes]

Oh, to answer some questions:

They are the green rods.  I got replacements here.  

The lines are equalized, I could tell clearly when I unwrapped them the first time. 

My problems are based pretty much my lack of control, due to the high winds. So a kite designed for higher winds should resolve some of my issues.

[riffclown]

Sounds like you got some excellent customer service and advice.. There are some very good quadline fliers in that area.. Find a proficient flier to fly with and learn from.. There's no greater teacher than in person experience..

[makatakam]

Let the top lines out all the way to the last knot. If they are already out on the last knot, bring the bottom lines in toward the handles. Tie extra knots in the bottom leaders closer to the handles if necessary. You should be flying with at least 5.5 inches of differential between the top and bottom. Most experienced flyers will use 6.5 to 8.0 inches, depending on conditions. The extra brake you create by letting the top lines out and bringing the bottoms in helps tame the beast quite considerably. 

[John Barresi]

The most skilled urban / performance quad fliers are almost all on at least 8-10" of extension on the top... High winds is also a good reason the let the tops out more.

[Wayne Dowler]

You knew that the lines were equalized as you unwrapped them?? HOW? I've seen brand new factory lines off as much as 3"!! Try this procedure and be absolutely sure:

Put all 4 line loops on a common point (a nail on a post or a stake on the beach). Run out the lines and get them untangled. Put your handles on and reasonably pull tight. The handles should match up. If one is tilted, figure out which is the longest and shorten till all 4 are as close to the same length as possible. Do the adjusting by untying the knots in the sleeving, pull the line through a bit, and retie the knots. Takes a bit of trial and error effort, but you can get them really close. 

The purpose: an off length line will cause the kite to steer itself. Sort of like if your alignment is off on your car, or you put one 15" tire on with 3 13" tires. You'll be constantly having to compensate for the "off" tire. Take it from me - check your lines for equal - yourself!!!! 

[John Barresi]

Yep, what Wayne said.

[SparkieRob]

Oh, to answer some questions:

They are the green rods.  I got replacements here.  

The lines are equalized, I could tell clearly when I unwrapped them the first time. 

My problems are based pretty much my lack of control, due to the high winds. So a kite designed for higher winds should resolve some of my issues.

Green rods with an EXP, that is a score! EXP's come with relabelled 3 wrap frames and are very tough.

Ditto on what JB said about urban brake settings. On my Full Sail I use for urban I connect on the last knot on top and vary the bottom if I let someone have a go. Generally in an urban setting you are on short lines, 30 feet. There is "moderately" less wind at that height. I use a 2-black race-2 with 2's for the verts and haven't snapped one yet. Touch wood. It has had its fare share of gusts but you can scoot to the edges quickly.


Sent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app

[Wayne Dowler]

I would be very surprised at Green Race rods in an EXP, Even more surprised one broke - even a green label one!! My guess is that they were EXP marked rods with those green bands on the label.

[hapes]

Yeah, they were the EXP labelled ones, not race rods.

I am pretty sure the lines are equalized, because I linked the top to bottom, white on black with a lark's head.  Wound it up and when I got to the end, black on white with no slack.  

I guess it wasn't when I unwound it but...

[Wayne Dowler]

Don't guess - do the check and be sure!!

 

[hapes]

So my best version of a setup to check length came up with this:

http://imgur.com/St0lMjq

So, yeah, not quite equal

[Wayne Dowler]

Play with shortening the long ones til all 4 are as close as possible. While you may not feel the difference right away (maybe you will) with equal lines, it will make the kite behave a lot differently. I do this with every new set BEFORE I fly them, and at regular intervals during their lifespan. Since lines do "creep", best to check every once in a while.

[hapes]

That's my plan

[John Barresi]

And just for posterity...

 

[makatakam]

A line that is too long can be shortened on the field very quickly by simply tying an overhand knot in the sleeved loop if the length of the loop is long enough. I like to tie 8-inch loops at the handle end using the thinnest sleeving possible for that reason. I prefer to just tie a quick overhand knot or two because it only takes a moment. Once you play with quads long enough you will develop an instinct for how much of what is needed to keep things balanced. You can also just come one knot in on the leader with the line that's long as a really quick fix in the field, as long as the knots on your leaders aren't more than 5/8" apart, and make the permanent adjustments when you get home.

In other words, whatever it takes to keep it flying!

[Wayne Dowler]

The only negative to using thin sleeving is trying to undo knots! I mean the thin looks so nice, but ........? When it comes to equalizing - gimme the thick stuff! 

[makatakam]

I think you may have missed my point, Wayne. The way I equalize my lines is by tying knots. The thin, or lack of sleeving (my home-made lines have no sleeving), allows me to make finer adjustments than the thick ones would. I haven't undone sleeving to equalize in more than five years -- I'm not willing to spend that much time, and by the time I get home I can't remember which of the dozen sets of lines need what. 

It's a method that works for me -- YMMV.

[Wayne Dowler]

No - I got your intent - and it works for a temporary fix, but if you want to equalize the lines - thick sleeves are MUCH easier to undo the knots in!

[riffclown]

2 hours ago, Wayne Dowler said:

No - I got your intent - and it works for a temporary fix, but if you want to equalize the lines - thick sleeves are MUCH easier to undo the knots in!

Another viable option is to only sleeve one end of the lines. All adjustments are made from the sleeved end. The unsleeved end left in its knotted configuration.. You then have the benefits of both configurations.. Sleeker lines at the kite, easier adjustments at the sleeved handle end....