Wayne Dowler

It will be nice to know if the new "GT" rods are different in both thickness and deflection. Been looking for the reason for them being "different" in feel and in breakage. PS: Been flying since 1989 and NEVER thought about my rods having a spine! Threw them into place, whether as spreaders on a dualie. or rods in my Revs. Any breakages have been explainable so far - ie, rod not seated fully, stepped on, contact with street, etc. Everyone of them was explained by circumstances. Have seen a flex difference with my own eyes, but not a weight comparison. Or variances in wall thickness. Interesting!

Be careful - SLK line is abrasive and will wreck your Rev or dualie lines, It has a higher fiction point and can literally melt through a set of Rev lines. You might survive the immediate tangle, only to have your lines give way unexpectedly, way after the incident. The damage had already been done and a bit of strain = POP!

The race and 2 wrap are pretty close in weight. Hear you on the 50# lines about snags, but if you do get to fly over better fields, the lighter lines do help. Might make some 30' and/or 50' x 50# to try at times! Solo, I use 30', 50', 85' and 120' x 50#, team, we use 85'

Light wind flying is a bit of work, but getting good at it feels sooo good! Flying while others are sitting, gives a sense of satisfaction, some will never get! But it isn't easy! Takes time, learning to feel the sail through the lines, and most of all - learning to move! No flying with feet in cement here! You have to learn to give and take and when! Sometimes short lines work, sometimes lighter lines. Sometimes both! It all depends on you wanting it or not! (apologies PLM, couldn't resist) Try putting in the lightest frame set you have and go for it! Results - not guaranteed! But putting in the effort and trying again and again, pay off in the long run!

As always - it's what works for you. A good test of top leader's adjustment - put on the farthest out knot - try launching - if too hard or not at all - move in a knot - try again. Keep repeating til launch is doable. Should take a little effort, but the "in air" performance should be much better!

Try moving it out farther for more control - less speed. You may have to add a step back into your launch routine, but the extra control, once flying is well worth it! John's leaders are even longer!! Try out farther as it helps "square up" the sail to the wind, making it more efficient. Think having a ball in the center of the sail. As you move around, try to think about not dropping it! Differences? Slightly different profile, more bow to the LE, deeper sail at the "V", panel layout designed for controlled stretch, etc. Sometime lay one over the other to compare. Not huge differences, but refinements to the design!

By the posts - Dr Zettl has a "B" and I believe he made the comment of him feeling that the other kite was "super brake heavy" and his felt like a rocket. Now that in my mind is backwards! With the adjustments on the "B" leaders - that shouldn't be. If anything, it should be the other way round!

Lack of proper leaders made it feel "brake heavy"? How so? The stock 1.5 leaders have no adjustments (just a single knot at the end of the leader), the "B" has at least a couple. From the comment above, the "B" - "felt like a rocket" and the other "super brake heavy"? Not making sense to me! What exactly does Daougie have? Confused here! The term "brake" is the differential between the top and bottom line hookup points. That is why leader sets have a long top leader and a short bottom leader. The difference in the line attachments on the leaders represents the amount of "brake". The bigger the difference - the more "brake". Most of us that use more brake are at 5-8" of difference between the two attachment points. That is why I am confused by the above statement. An SLE or EXP has NO difference in the leaders and a "B" does, with a couple knots. By adjusting knots, the "B" should be the one that feels brake heavy. Unless you have the leaders upside down/reversed? Will be at a festival this weekend, so may not see any answers or return any comments til Monday, unless I get wifi and can use my laptop.

My preferred setups: std - bl race, mid - bl race, f/v - 3 wrap, x/v - gr race, sul - diamonds. These pretty much stay this way, as I like this as my solo setup. Will use a 3 wrap in the std and mid if team does too. We like having matched gear so everyone pretty much responds the same.

Thunder and lightning are nothing to play with - best to call it a day if that is in the sky! Weight when wet? Really depends on winds more than anything. If you were struggling to fly before the rain, then certainly a heavier sail will be really hard to fly. May have to use a different sail (going from vented to standard). Just be aware of this though - a wet sail may stretch more than a dry sail. Will it return to original shape? - depends on the fabric used. Sprinkles usually aren't too difficult, it's the full on rain that gets tiring. YMMV

I'd suggest getting a set of John's, either now or when those wear out! Got 3 sets myself!! Love the extra adjustments they give me!

Good to have Terry look, or Mario! It's really a personal thing - the setup on your handles. Some use longer, some shorter. Some use lots of brake, others none. The leaders provided by Rev were a compromise between their no adjustments philosophy and John's attempt to give you even more knots to work with! John's leaders run 10-11" long with 7-8 knots! Those stock leaders were about 6-7"? with 4-5 knots? So as you can see, there are lots of variables in how you setup handles! Again - none wrong, just how you like it to work!

15" handles come in handy in really light winds - for some! I use 13", 14", and 15" handles depending on wind conditions of the day, kite used, etc, - maybe even my state of mind! Mostly use 14" - they've become my all rounders, 13" for strong wind, 15" for light. Really depends on any given day! I also use a little different bend on mine - about halfway between the outdoor bend and the indoor bend. The ergonomics work better for the way I hold my handles and the amount of brake I use while flying. Many have picked up my stuff and can't launch it, wondering why I have it setup like that! But it is a personal choice - that's what is so nice about Revs - everyone is a bit different, likes things a certain way, etc. Just remember there is no "right or wrong", just how you like it matters! You might grow into the 15", just use them some and see, especially in lighter wind. Experiment! Otherwise pass them on to another!

If you find the kite just "shooting off out of control", try lowering your hands a bit. Some people don't like their leaders rubbing on their fingers, others do. Do you have knotted leaders? If so, try moving your hands down a bit and if needed, pull the top lines in a knot. That should be about an equal adjustment. By putting your hands all the way to the top, you've pretty much locked the kite into full drive mode, unless you moderate it with the amount of tilt you use. That said - hands are moving up and down all the time, they are not in quick dry cement! Small adjustments are almost always needed during any kite flight!

Just remember starting out - If the kite is going to crash no matter what - LET IT! Learn to "Give to the Kite!". Pulling just drives the kite harder into the ground! Better to go set it back up, then to go down to find a broken kite on the end of the lines! Step forward, throw your hands forward, even throw the handles at it (extreme case), but learn to give it slack in a crash! Your kite will thank you!!

I've been at a few indoor events that people tried the 4-D. and it can be done. Just not the best tool for that type of flying - IMHO! Inak, Wren, Echo, Reflection are all better suited. Not saying it can't be done ......

riff - your comment disappeared - HUH?

Try this: Face LE left and as you swing around to have the right wing low, keep your right hand tucked against your body. That should stabilize the wing and keep it from moving much. Now try the other side and do the same to your left hand. Linked together, we call that a ladder and can be up, down, or both ways. As practice - try doing 4 up and 4 down, trying to not lose altitude, all in the same amount of distance. You'll find it is easier up than down! Feels like the hand trading is slower. The pinning of the hand works both ways. It keeps the hand from giving commands when it shouldn't. To start down, pause as you do the last "up", then continue on through to start down. Again - pinning the hand that is the pivot point - keeps that hand quiet. As you get better, you'll find you don't need the complete pin and just learn not to give commands with that hand. Give it a go!

So what is the most constant issue?? Loss of height? Bottom pivot point moving? ???

And that is a medium sized one! Try setting up a Zen or Rev 1 inside - those are BIG!

Use much brake? Long top leaders and short bottoms? Long top leaders give you back some of the control the kite CAN give. Too short and the kite is always locked into drive, feels fidgety, nervous. Longer tops will make it a bit harder to launch, but give you much more control once airborne. Spins losing altitude? Try trading hands as you spin. Keep the hand controlling the high wing, pulled in a bit. As you spin, it's a constant switching of the pulled in hand. It also should allow you to control the speed better. The faster you trade, the faster the spin - try to match them up. Another idea is to think about bringing the bottom up, rather than the top down. Gets rid of the "down thought" and instead replaces it with "up"! Try simple 180* turns in place - face left, then right, then back to the left, always doing a "down turn", but always thinking - bring the bottom up. And trying to keep them at the same altitude!!

Thanks for explaining it a bit more clearly John!

Watch yourself closely - you try "guiding" the kite up by moving your hands that way, not moving the handles into the forward drive position. The kite doesn't respond to your arm movements, as much as handle movements. The way you moved, created a "neutral" command to the kite - it didn't go because you didn't tell it to!! IMHO!

No offense taken here!

Don't know about the Freilein Exodus., but never had any issues with my Revs of the same material